On 11/03/2021 16:38, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"?

Yes, very much so. Currently independent repairers are frequently forced
to buy scrapped boards from various shady dealers in eWaste, and then
scavenge components because there is no official way to buy the part.

Well, it depends if the repairer has the skill and equipment to remove
the old SMD and replace it with a new one. If the original was a
multiconnection device flow-soldered in, I doubt many would be able to
replace it. Then, of course, you might have the issue of a multilayered
PCB where a via or two has failed, or is very close to the smd.

Well let's assume that a professional board repair outfit has the
equipment and skills required. The only thing standing in their way is
lack of official access to parts and data.

Pricing is a very relevant issue. If the smd is priced at a high level,
and you have to add to that the repairer's fee, in the long run it might
not work out much different from a completely new circuit board which
only needs to be plugged in.

If the board is available. On high priced Apple kit its not that
difficult to charge a flat rate £300 no fix no fee deal, even if the
part is £100. Especially when all Apple will offer you is a discount on
something new to bring the price down to £1000.


Or acquire schematics from dodgy Russian / Chinese ftp sites because the
maker will not make them available.

Maybe that's something to be considered for amending legislation. ;-)

(yes Apple I am talking about you!)

Of even if you can get a part, there is no legal way of obtaining the
manufacturers configuration software that would enable the new part to
be "keyed" to the existing system.

I can't see a way round that if it is considered commercially confidential.

You can't really argue that access to a part is commercially
confidential - the internal design of it perhaps.

Even access to a schematic and board view is not really confidential
since once you have access to the physical board, you can reverse
engineer the schematic.

(John Deere being famous for ****ing off lots of farmers with this one)

Or you can get a part but that relies on firmware that the maker does
not make available etc.

Printer cartridges come to mind!

Yup... and many modern cars.

Needless to say the makers will use any argument in the book they can -
say claiming that the product is too dangerous to allow "unskilled"
repair (hoping to conflate unskilled and third party repairers), or they
will erect bogus "authorised repairer programs" like apple did in the US
to try and stave off legislation. Needless to say they hoops one is
required to jump through to qualify to join and onerous, and once joined
the T&Sc actually prevent you from offering a useful repair service in
the first place!)

The first few test cases of non-compliance in the EU/UK are going to be
most interesting!

Yup, I can see a few of those coming :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 11/03/2021 11:34, tim... wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
...


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to
drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less routine maintenance and
usually tell you with an error code what the car
has decided has failed sensor wise etc.


mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will
cost you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

for a car that was only worth 1000, I was forced to scrap it (150 scrap
value, drove it until the next MOT/Service required so that would have
been another 200 cost)



Mine is showing a wonderful array of faults...'gearbox fault/handbrake
fault/DSC not available/cruise control not available/'


Apparently it may be a combination of a brake switch that was subsequently
modified and needs upgrading to later spec, and my habit of left foot
braking and mashing the loud pedal together, to force an upshift...

It goes away after two reboots. I will try no left foot braking and see if
it comes back ;-)

However, a plethora of sensor faults usually indicates something else -
low battery voltage is a classic.

But a properly designed diagnostic system will report that.

On 11/03/2021 21:52, Tim Streater wrote:
On 11 Mar 2021 at 20:20:04 GMT, John Rumm
wrote:

On 11/03/2021 16:38, Jeff Layman wrote:

I can't see a way round that if it is considered commercially confidential.

You can't really argue that access to a part is commercially
confidential - the internal design of it perhaps.

Even access to a schematic and board view is not really confidential
since once you have access to the physical board, you can reverse
engineer the schematic.

Even on a multi-layer board? Well I could see GCHQ doing that, but a
repairer?

That's the problem, lack of a schematic makes it too much effort for a
repairer, but does not stop a pirate who wants to produce their own
copies and where the effort is worthwhile. Effectively there is no good
reason not to make schematics available.

On 11/03/2021 22:08, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/03/2021 21:52, Tim Streater wrote:
On 11 Mar 2021 at 20:20:04 GMT, John Rumm
wrote:

On 11/03/2021 16:38, Jeff Layman wrote:

Â* I can't see a way round that if it is considered commercially
confidential.

You can't really argue that access to a part is commercially
confidential - the internal design of it perhaps.

Even access to a schematic and board view is not really confidential
since once you have access to the physical board, you can reverse
engineer the schematic.

Even on a multi-layer board? Well I could see GCHQ doing that, but a
repairer?

That's the problem, lack of a schematic makes it too much effort for a
repairer, but does not stop a pirate who wants to produce their own
copies and where the effort is worthwhile. Effectively there is no good
reason not to make schematics available.

No help at all faced with a 64 contact SMD PGA whose internals are
proprietary.

Design moved on from PCB layout to chip level years ago...
....and faced with that, our local Belarusian 'I fix your Apple OK?' has
a bunch of dead smartphones that he simply swaps parts from until the
customers set works


--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 11/03/2021 21:52, Tim Streater wrote:
On 11 Mar 2021 at 20:20:04 GMT, John Rumm
wrote:

On 11/03/2021 16:38, Jeff Layman wrote:

I can't see a way round that if it is considered commercially confidential.

You can't really argue that access to a part is commercially
confidential - the internal design of it perhaps.

Even access to a schematic and board view is not really confidential
since once you have access to the physical board, you can reverse
engineer the schematic.

Even on a multi-layer board? Well I could see GCHQ doing that, but a
repairer?

Component level SMD repair is pretty commonly done stuff...

For example, go have a look at Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones (iPad
Rehab) on youtube, they routinely fix stuff that apple claim can't be
fixed. They have posted tons of detailed walk-throughs of many repairs.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/03/2021 16:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 11:34, tim... wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
...


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin
to drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less routine maintenance and
usually tell you with an error code what the car
has decided has failed sensor wise etc.


mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will
cost you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

for a car that was only worth 1000, I was forced to scrap it (150
scrap value, drove it until the next MOT/Service required so that
would have been another 200 cost)



Mine is showing a wonderful array of faults...'gearbox fault/handbrake
fault/DSC not available/cruise control not available/'


Apparently it may be a combination of a brake switch that was
subsequently modified and needs upgrading to later spec,Â* and my habit
of left foot braking and mashing the loud pedal together, to force an
upshift...

It goes away after two reboots. I will try no left foot braking and see
if it comes back ;-)

However, a plethora of sensor faults usually indicates something else -
low battery voltage is a classic.

I had similar once - The check engine light came on shortly after
starting, and it would not rev above 1500 RPM.

Alas that was at the start of the return leg of my journey and not sat
at home on the drive. However I did have the ODBII gadget with me, so
plugged that in to read the faults on my phone, and got a collection of
half a dozen seemingly unrelated ones - over temperature, throttle
position sensor failed, lambda sensor failed or open circuit and so on.
Looked at the temperature gage, and it was pegged accurately FSD - not
moving at all (and the engine bay did not seem exc3essively warm
either), even running the heater full on.

So I thought about it for a bit, and thought these sensors are scattered
all over the place, there is nothing that links them logically together,
other than the possibility they might share a multi-pole connector, or
some CAN bus wiring. So I had a poke under the bonnet - found all the
connectors I could see, and partially separated them and pushed them
back home. Restarted and everything was back to normal with no hint of a
problem. :-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/03/2021 10:29, Radio Man wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods. In real terms most parts seem to
be available if you do a search and many are common across several makes of
while goods. Most people just dont know what to do when it comes to fixing
things.

Replacing an SMD component would be beyond most people. Even service people
swap out boards.

Basic SMD rework is really not that difficult, even with fairly basic
kit. I manage quite a number of jobs with a cheap hot air rework
station, and a TS100 iron with a fine tip. Plus some quik-chip bismuth
alloy low melting point solder. For magnification a large illuminated
anglepoise style lamp.

(for phone sized stuff, a decent binocular microscope would be pretty
much essential)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

charles wrote:

I bought a manual for my Anglia _ not a Haynes - a bit cheaper. There is
one sentence that I still remember after nearly 60 years " If the
windscreen wipers fail to operate or operate intermittently, connect a 0-15
volt meter across the terminals and check that a current of 5 amps is being
drawn."

How to find the wiper motor waa never explained

Nor their method of measuring the current with a voltmeter across
the device? ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

In article , Chris J Dixon
wrote:
charles wrote:

I bought a manual for my Anglia _ not a Haynes - a bit cheaper. There
is one sentence that I still remember after nearly 60 years " If the
windscreen wipers fail to operate or operate intermittently, connect a
0-15 volt meter across the terminals and check that a current of 5 amps
is being drawn."

How to find the wiper motor waa never explained

Nor their method of measuring the current with a voltmeter across the
device? ;-)

Chris

indeed so,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 11/03/2021 10:29, Radio Man wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods.

No. Everything.

In real terms most parts seem to
be available if you do a search and many are common across several makes of
while goods. Most people just dont know what to do when it comes to fixing
things.

You are expected to recycle to the component materials and buy again
new. Your phone/car/computer is expected to last the life of otherwise
consumables, the software updates, the security patches. You simply
throw it all away when it breaks.

If ye don't do that, then capitalism apparently fails, profits die, and
people lose jobs.
If ye run a non-authorised repair centre, "them" will close you down.
If you import a pattern part, "them" will close you down also.
If you go anywhere near infinging a patent, years after the last actual
commercial use, "them" will close you down.

There are many that can recycle, fix electronics to component level, and
collectively save themselves a fortune. Others may not be able to handle
SMD, doesn't mean a thing to the skilled - but prevented.


Hey, seems we are finished with Brexit, Vegans, BLM etc.

This is the march on the "right to self-repair".

The ethos of DIY folk.

Folks that are seen by "them" as socialist do-gooders illegally sharing
secrets, and must apparently be stopped.

--
Adrian C

On 11/03/2021 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to drift
in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex, the Haynes manual for the past
two or three decades have not covered much of the car, or especially
it's electrical systems.

First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one for
an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing changed
since then.

I used to religiously buy the Haynes manual every time I had a car change.

This time I've found where to download a cheap very comprehensive
workshop manual straight from the car manufacturers (VAG)

It's solid detailed bedtime reading, Haynes have lost a customer :-)

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 12:14:46 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 11:17:51 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 11/03/2021 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to
drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex, the Haynes manual for the
past two or three decades have not covered much of the car, or
especially it's electrical systems.

First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one
for an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing
changed since then.

I used to religiously buy the Haynes manual every time I had a car
change.

This time I've found where to download a cheap very comprehensive
workshop manual straight from the car manufacturers (VAG)

It's solid detailed bedtime reading, Haynes have lost a customer :-)

The writing was on the wall when they chose to use their "brand" to flog
the sort of tat you find in museum gift shops. Yes, an Apollo 11 Haynes
manual may be an ideal gift. But it doesn't really keep the core going.

I've got a Vauxhall HC series Haynes manual should anyone want to make
an offer.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:55:50 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car types that
are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres have a 100% VAT put on them.
Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable? I
don't get your point?

How often could you take a tyre to be repaired rather than replaced. I don't know.
Why do people buy new tyres ?


Practicalities of custom and practice, and of course safety will always
feature.

It also depends on the product I guess. I doubt many would want a mobile phone the size
of the 1980s models.

I have a 12 year old washing machine it sort of works but can take 12 hours to do a cycle,
but sometimes just the usual time, they don;t make spare parts for it anymore.

My fridge freezer is 10 years old and not very efficint electricity wise.
I doubyt it's worth replacing the motor and the rubber door seals and sanding down the
rusting edges of the door and redoing and then theirs the broken egg tray.

On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 11:05:28 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 11/03/2021 10:29, Radio Man wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods.
No. Everything.
In real terms most parts seem to
be available if you do a search and many are common across several makes of
while goods. Most people just dont know what to do when it comes to fixing
things.
You are expected to recycle to the component materials and buy again
new. Your phone/car/computer is expected to last the life of otherwise
consumables, the software updates, the security patches. You simply
throw it all away when it breaks.

That is your choice you aren't forced to do any of the above.
It just becomes easier and cheaper over time to buy new rather than repair.
It's also more practical to just replace or upgrade.

If ye don't do that, then capitalism apparently fails, profits die, and
people lose jobs.

Yes all those cars, buses, lorries, trains shame people didn't stick to their penny farthing bikes isn't it.


If ye run a non-authorised repair centre, "them" will close you down.

Who will ? They won't unless you claim to be authorised.

There's plenty of phone shops that say they can fix your computer PC or Mac.
They haven't been closed down.



If you import a pattern part, "them" will close you down also.

No.

If you go anywhere near infinging a patent, years after the last actual
commercial use, "them" will close you down.

Well yes infinging a patent is I believe against the law.


There are many that can recycle, fix electronics to component level, and
collectively save themselves a fortune. Others may not be able to handle
SMD, doesn't mean a thing to the skilled - but prevented.

Not prevented at all.
You can buy an SMD soldering stations with microscope we have a couple here.



Hey, seems we are finished with Brexit, Vegans, BLM etc.

How about meghan ;-)


This is the march on the "right to self-repair".

People mostly have that right.



The ethos of DIY folk.

There comes a time when it just isn't possible or practical.

Folks that are seen by "them" as socialist do-gooders illegally sharing
secrets, and must apparently be stopped.

--
Adrian C

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:55:50 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be
an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like
apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative
is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car
types that
are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres have a 100%
VAT put on them.
Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable? I
don't get your point?

How often could you take a tyre to be repaired rather than replaced.

Most of the time with a puncture. None of the time when the tread is gone.

I don't know.

Nothing new there.

Why do people buy new tyres ?

Because retreads are useless now and some
damage means its not practical to repair.

Practicalities of custom and practice, and
of course safety will always feature.

It also depends on the product I guess.
I doubt many would want a mobile
phone the size of the 1980s models.

I have a 12 year old washing machine it sort of works but
can take 12 hours to do a cycle, but sometimes just the
usual time, they don;t make spare parts for it anymore.

Thats when you get the part you need from a scrapped one.

My fridge freezer is 10 years old and not very efficint electricity wise.
I doubyt it's worth replacing the motor

The problem isnt the motor.

and the rubber door seals and sanding down
the rusting edges of the door and redoing

That is if your time is free.

and then theirs the broken egg tray.

Usually quite easy to fix if you still have the pieces.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 11:05:28 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 11/03/2021 10:29, Radio Man wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what
they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods.
No. Everything.
In real terms most parts seem to
be available if you do a search and many are common across several
makes of
while goods. Most people just dont know what to do when it comes to
fixing
things.
You are expected to recycle to the component materials and buy again
new. Your phone/car/computer is expected to last the life of otherwise
consumables, the software updates, the security patches. You simply
throw it all away when it breaks.

That is your choice you aren't forced to do any of the above.
It just becomes easier and cheaper over time to buy new rather than
repair.
It's also more practical to just replace or upgrade.

If ye don't do that, then capitalism apparently fails, profits die, and
people lose jobs.

Yes all those cars, buses, lorries, trains shame people didn't stick to
their penny farthing bikes isn't it.


If ye run a non-authorised repair centre, "them" will close you down.

Who will ? They won't unless you claim to be authorised.

There's plenty of phone shops that say they can fix your computer PC or
Mac.
They haven't been closed down.



If you import a pattern part, "them" will close you down also.

No.

If you go anywhere near infinging a patent, years after the last actual
commercial use, "them" will close you down.

Well yes infinging a patent is I believe against the law.


There are many that can recycle, fix electronics to component level, and
collectively save themselves a fortune. Others may not be able to handle
SMD, doesn't mean a thing to the skilled - but prevented.

Not prevented at all.
You can buy an SMD soldering stations with microscope we have a couple
here.



Hey, seems we are finished with Brexit, Vegans, BLM etc.

How about meghan ;-)


This is the march on the "right to self-repair".

People mostly have that right.



The ethos of DIY folk.

There comes a time when it just isn't possible or practical.

Thats very arguable indeed with cars particularly. A number
of us helped a mate move what was just a pile of rusting
metal to a mates place. It was amazing what he turned
that into vintage car wise. Forget the make, model, year.

Folks that are seen by "them" as socialist do-gooders illegally sharing
secrets, and must apparently be stopped.

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 02:14:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the sleepless trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
The writing was on the wall when they chose to use their "brand" to flog
the sort of tat you find in museum gift shops. Yes, an Apollo 11 Haynes
manual may be an ideal gift. But it doesn't really keep the core going.

Oddly, one of the few Haynes books I find good is their one on car
electrics. Obviously generic and aimed at Lucas equipped cars, but does
contain a lot you'll not find easily elsewhere. But really for cars before
the days of everything being computer controlled.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

John Rumm wrote:
Component level SMD repair is pretty commonly done stuff...

For example, go have a look at Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones (iPad
Rehab) on youtube, they routinely fix stuff that apple claim can't be
fixed. They have posted tons of detailed walk-throughs of many repairs.

There's a board/component level repair tradeoff.

If it's a washing machine and the board is simple, it might only cost £50.
Not worth doing component level fault diagnosis when you could just swap it
out.

If it's a laptop and they soldered the CPU, the RAM and the SSD to the
motherboard, the board might be £2000 to replace. That's a very strong
motivation to go in at component level, especially if the fix is something
at the simpler end of things (dead charging chips and similar).


In both cases, if the manufacturer refuses to supply parts (that charging
chip is often custom, in the case of Apple) all you're left with is getting
one from scrap. And then you might find you can't pair it because they
fitted DRM, even though there was no actual reason to need to pair it in the
first place.

While certain brands are notorious for this, it's only a matter of time
before their competitors jump on the same bandwagon. Hence needing laws to
prevent this behaviour.

Theo

On 12/03/2021 19:58, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Component level SMD repair is pretty commonly done stuff...

For example, go have a look at Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones (iPad
Rehab) on youtube, they routinely fix stuff that apple claim can't be
fixed. They have posted tons of detailed walk-throughs of many repairs.

There's a board/component level repair tradeoff.

If it's a washing machine and the board is simple, it might only cost £50.
Not worth doing component level fault diagnosis when you could just swap it
out.

If it's a laptop and they soldered the CPU, the RAM and the SSD to the
motherboard, the board might be £2000 to replace. That's a very strong
motivation to go in at component level, especially if the fix is something
at the simpler end of things (dead charging chips and similar).


In both cases, if the manufacturer refuses to supply parts (that charging
chip is often custom, in the case of Apple) all you're left with is getting
one from scrap. And then you might find you can't pair it because they
fitted DRM, even though there was no actual reason to need to pair it in the
first place.

While certain brands are notorious for this, it's only a matter of time
before their competitors jump on the same bandwagon. Hence needing laws to
prevent this behaviour.

I don't really want to defend Apple, but we have a problem here that
none of our legislators will understand.

Company X spends millions of dollars developing some software. That
software is unique to their devices, gives them a sales advantage, and
so it's worth them continuing to spend all that money.

Company Y comes along and makes a device that runs the same software.
They aren't spending anything on software development, so their devices
are much cheaper.

We then have two scenarios:
X goes bust
X prevents their software from running on Y's devices.

Your challenge is to find a way to allow a repaired device, which may
have had the HW containing the serial number replaced, to run the
software, but not allow Company Y's devices to run it.

Andy

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 00:21:21 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/03/2021 21:20, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 12/03/2021 19:58, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Component level SMD repair is pretty commonly done stuff...

For example, go have a look at Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones
(iPad Rehab) on youtube, they routinely fix stuff that apple
claim can't be fixed. They have posted tons of detailed
walk-throughs of many repairs.

There's a board/component level repair tradeoff.

If it's a washing machine and the board is simple, it might only
cost £50. Not worth doing component level fault diagnosis when you
could just swap it out.

If it's a laptop and they soldered the CPU, the RAM and the SSD to
the motherboard, the board might be £2000 to replace. That's a
very strong motivation to go in at component level, especially if
the fix is something at the simpler end of things (dead charging
chips and similar).


In both cases, if the manufacturer refuses to supply parts (that
charging chip is often custom, in the case of Apple) all you're
left with is getting one from scrap. And then you might find you
can't pair it because they fitted DRM, even though there was no
actual reason to need to pair it in the first place.

While certain brands are notorious for this, it's only a matter of
time before their competitors jump on the same bandwagon. Hence
needing laws to prevent this behaviour.

I don't really want to defend Apple, but we have a problem here that
none of our legislators will understand.

Company X spends millions of dollars developing some software. That
software is unique to their devices, gives them a sales advantage,
and so it's worth them continuing to spend all that money.

Company Y comes along and makes a device that runs the same software.
They aren't spending anything on software development, so their
devices are much cheaper.

We then have two scenarios: X goes bust X prevents their software
from running on Y's devices.

Your challenge is to find a way to allow a repaired device, which may
have had the HW containing the serial number replaced, to run the
software, but not allow Company Y's devices to run it.

There are ways to make this a non issue though. Firstly their hardware
design is still their intellectual property, so they can take legal
action against other makers cloning it.

Secondly, if they are single source custom chips, then they just make
them available as spares at a price that is not compatible with someone
building a whole phone/laptop/whatever. These things are very sensitive
to the bill of materials (although one could argue that apple has more
to worry about since they work on higher profit margins)

So a power management controller that costs apple 25c, they could sell
as a spare for $50, and it would still be economically viable as a
repair part, but not in the BoM for a whole phone build. (much as
building a car from parts would cost way more than the car bought outright)

.....unless you were to do it one piece at a time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9F2DT8iEQ

Nick

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
on 11/03/2021, Dave Plowman (News) supposed :
First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one for
an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing changed
since then.

The Haynes manuals used to be based on the manufacturers version, plus
their own experience gained in stripping cars down. They stopped doing
that long ago, now they just repeat excerpts from the manufacturers
manuals.

My last Granada, the final version, was bought cheap with lots of
electrical issues. I bought the Haynes manual assuming they were like
of old, with a full set of diagrams. I was very wrong, so I complained
to Haynes who very helpfully posted me a full A3 set of the
manufacturers diagrams. They would have filled several Haynes manuals.
...Yes, I did manage to sort out all of its issues and ran it for many
years, whilst hoping Ford might bring out a successor to the Granada.
The publishers were taken to court for breach of copyright by the
manufacturers many year ago. As a result they were compelled to show by
way of photograph in the manual that they had actually owned an example
of the model and had gained their knowledge by striping it down rather
than just copying the manufacturers Workshop Manual.
--
bert