https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

That remains to be seen, particularly the price of the spare parts needed
and whether they supply the smallest part that has failed or complete
sub assemblys which mean that it isnt economic to buy and swap those.

If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD
itself available make the TV "more repairable"?

Technically, yes.

How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD
already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present?

Not always, some like Apple refuse to supply parts to the general public.

It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for
the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover
"administrative costs".

Its unlikely they would get away with that.

But obviously could if they refuse to supply the smallest part that has
failed.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:13:36 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Will this make any practical difference?

That remains to be seen, particularly the price of the spare parts needed
and whether they supply

IOW, you haven't the foggiest but you run off at the mouth anyway, as usual,
senile troll!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what
they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P
to cover "administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here?

Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees?


--
Tim Lamb

On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge
what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an
exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

It all stems from socialism.

Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few
people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs and
allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the
government being involved.

manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive job
creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without obsolescence.

What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to repairmen.

Why socialism? Well its like renewable energy - the alleged aim is to on
the one hand get wealth into peoples paws and on the other, to reduce
carbon dioxide emissions, but teh method chosen becomes an end in itself
that doesnt really help., Instead of jut giving people decent stiff
free, or building nucler power stations, we end up 'creating jobs' or
'renewable energy'

I see no virtue in work. Peole should stay at home and get paid for
doing so. And let the robots build decent stuff that doesn't need
replacing every few years.

We need to decouple wealth creation from 'work' once and for all.



Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here?

Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees?




--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 10/03/2021 11:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge
what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an
exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for
so long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

It all stems from socialism.

Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few
people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs and
allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the
government being involved.

manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive job
creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without obsolescence.

What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to repairmen.

You seem to forget the issues regarding landfill, CO2 generation from
making new and not repairing old. It's our throw away society and you
are misguided to associate this with socialism.

Why socialism? Well its like renewable energy - the alleged aim is to on
Â*the one hand get wealth into peoples pawsÂ* and on the other, to reduce
carbon dioxide emissions, but teh method chosen becomes an end in itself
that doesnt really help., Instead of jut giving people decent stiff
free, or building nucler power stations, we end up 'creating jobs' or
'renewable energy'

It does help, as would building more nuclear power stations. The failure
is through allowing defective power stations to poison the environment
to put off the public. Your obsession doesn't help, any more T i m
promotes veganism through his fanatical views.

I see no virtue in work. Peole should stay at home and get paid for
doing so. And let the robots build decent stuff that doesn't need
replacing every few years.

I agree, there should be a national wage. Oldies get it and call it a
pension. Work should be a choice, where pay and keeping the lion share
of that pay as an encouragement to work.

Of course that's a socialist idea, where you would subject everyone to
draconian means testing.

We need to decouple wealth creation from 'work' once and for all.

So you can sit on your bum doing nothing? Wealth creation is all about
work with the aid of investment.

When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then
perhaps you have a point.

Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here?

Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees?

On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote:

When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then
perhaps you have a point.

A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that
during the pandemic.

On 10/03/2021 15:18, GB wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote:

When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then
perhaps you have a point.

A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that
during the pandemic.
No, they need to get out from their houses.
Very few people *work*, when 'at work', anyway, for most of the time


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 10/03/2021 15:18, GB wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote:

When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then
perhaps you have a point.

A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that
during the pandemic.

Personal contact doesn't have to be through work, but it certainly helps.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge
what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an
exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for
so long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

It all stems from socialism.

Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few
people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs
and allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the
government being involved.

manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive
job creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without
obsolescence.

What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to
repairmen.

You seem to forget the issues regarding landfill, CO2 generation from
making new and not repairing old. It's our throw away society and you
are misguided to associate this with socialism.

Remember Turnip is an ardent Trump supporter. So uses socialism as an
insult. With not a clue as to what it actually is.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes
wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more
repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit
board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at
present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see
fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover
"administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

I can given so little except cars is manufactured in the UK now.

Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here?

Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:11:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

I can

Of COURSE you can, you senile know-it-all and designer of a computer OS!
VBG

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

--
Adrian C

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?
Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers.
It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places
like eBay.

The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to support
iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because
its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional
crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other ways...)

John

On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?
Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their
computers.
It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from
places
like eBay.

The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to
support
iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the
BBC, because
its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional
crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other
ways...)

John

It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support
Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM.

--
Roger Hayter

On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?
Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their
computers.
It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from
places
like eBay.

The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to
support
iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the
BBC, because
its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional
crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other
ways...)

John

It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support
Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM.

That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to
provide spare parts.

Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold?

On 10/03/2021 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker"
wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Â* On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077
Â*
Â* Will this make any practical difference?
Â* Hopefully.
Â* Apple needs to change its ways.

In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for
their
computers.
It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell
or from
places
like eBay.

The BBC need to do some explaining.Â* I have a Samsung TV which used to
support
iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of
the
BBC, because
its performance was not adequate.Â* I was perfectly happy to accept
occasional
crashes in preference to not having it at all.Â*Â* (I know there are other
ways...)

John

It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support
Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM.

That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to
provide spare parts.

Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold?

Not sure win95 is really a valid comparison. You can still write
software for it today if you wanted, and it's not as if MS ever tried
the keep the API secret or prevent others from developing for it.

Quite a different prospect when you take your 15 month old macbook to
the Apple shop, and they say it's not repairable, but we can sell you a
new one, recycle the old, and no, you can't have your data back. (or
they quote a repair fee 50% more than the cost of replacement) etc.

In many cases there is no official repair option - especially things
like water damaged iPhones - Apple categorically state nothing can be
done and refuse to even acknowledge that 3rd party repair is an option.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2021 13:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 12:38:35 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker"
wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?
Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for
their computers.
It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell
or from places like eBay.

The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to
support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the
request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate. I was
perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not
having it at all. (I know there are other ways...)

John

It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to
support Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM.

That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to
provide spare parts.

Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold?

I'd bet there are still some systems somewhere limping along on a copy.

I agree, but how long would you expect a hardware manufacturer to carry
spares? 10 years, 20 years 30 years?

I expect it will be 6 years, as it would be consistent with legal
claims. It would be a start.

One issue would be repair manuals containing proprietary information.

Another is that the importer is deemed to be the manufacturer, they come
and go making a mockery of the proposed legislation.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.

--
Adrian C

On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.

Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car types that
are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres have a 100% VAT put on them.

"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.

Thats bull**** with all but the secure zone and fingerprint sensor.

"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 08:37:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the battery
dies

tim... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the battery
dies

Um, just because the back doesnt flip off doesnt mean that batteries
arent replaceable. Ive changed several iPhone batteries of various
generations.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/03/2021 11:23, tim... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the
battery dies



neighbour got his iphone battery replaced no trouble.

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the
battery dies

Nope, and there are plenty of places that will replace the battery for you.

Even apple does that, for a fee.

The real reason is because it makes very thin phones much
easier and that's the current fashion and it makes waterproofing
very easy. Its not practical with a user replaceable battery. And
it allows a bigger battery in the same sized phone.

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost
of providing a spares service.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

The consumer hasn't really won


Tim



--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.Â* This would reduce the cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

Can you cite any link to show that to be the case?

The consumer hasn't really won

It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple
independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer
only part.

On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

Can you cite any link to show that to be the case?

The consumer hasn't really won

It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple
independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer
only part.

You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car
batteries?

Only swappable by dealers with software.

--
Adrian C

On 10/03/2021 12:52, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts
are de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service
labour has increased, as a result.

Can you cite any link to show that to be the case?

The consumer hasn't really won

It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple
independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer
only part.

You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car
batteries?

Only swappable by dealers with software.

I was aware of that, down to their smart charging.


I would be very surprised if the car would stop if you simply changed
the battery. Or if it didn't learn the new battery characteristic over
time. BICBW

In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

Can you cite any link to show that to be the case?

The consumer hasn't really won

It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple
independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer
only part.

You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car
batteries?

Only swappable by dealers with software.

Willing to bet it's easy to get pirated software to do this. Same as all
car maker's stuff.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de
jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has
increased, as a result.

The consumer hasn't really won

this isn't about the consumer

it's about the environment

and "protecting" the environment always puts up costs

please, no discussion about where it's worthwhile or not

On 11/03/2021 11:19, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.Â* This would reduce the
cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

The consumer hasn't really won

this isn't about the consumer

it's about the environment

No, its about planned obsolesence by EU diktat mostly

and "protecting" the environment always puts up costs

please, no discussion about where it's worthwhile or not






--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".

On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation

I doubt it given that most is made in China now.

but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around
more €œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.

I doubt that too and that would certainly stifle innovation.

This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service.

But would make it a lot harder to stand out from the competition.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what
they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P
to cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around
more “generic” components rather than custom ones. This would reduce
the cost of providing a spares service.

Would be nice, but I remain sceptical.

I wonder how Apple will respond ?

It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job
and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the
Atlantic.

Nick

On 10/03/2021 10:59, Nick Odell wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what
they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P
to cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around
more €œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce
the cost of providing a spares service.

Would be nice, but I remain sceptical.

I wonder how Apple will respond ?

It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job
and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the
Atlantic.

Which is why we should enact any legislation together with the EU, so
Apple couldn't afford to do a 'Facebook'.