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'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077
Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". -- Jeff |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
Jeff Layman wrote
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? That remains to be seen, particularly the price of the spare parts needed and whether they supply the smallest part that has failed or complete sub assemblys which mean that it isnt economic to buy and swap those. If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? Technically, yes. How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? Not always, some like Apple refuse to supply parts to the general public. It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Its unlikely they would get away with that. But obviously could if they refuse to supply the smallest part that has failed. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In message , Jeff Layman
writes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Playing a green card without cost to the Govt? Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so long, I can't quite spot where this is going. Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here? Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees? -- Tim Lamb |
More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:13:36 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Will this make any practical difference? That remains to be seen, particularly the price of the spare parts needed and whether they supply IOW, you haven't the foggiest but you run off at the mouth anyway, as usual, senile troll! -- Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian cretin's pathological trolling: https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/ |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. -- Adrian C |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers. It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places like eBay. The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other ways...) John |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more €śgeneric€ť components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers. It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places like eBay. The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other ways...) John It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM. -- Roger Hayter |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote: Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more “generic” components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service. Would be nice, but I remain sceptical. I wonder how Apple will respond ? It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Nick |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? Yes, very much so. Currently independent repairers are frequently forced to buy scrapped boards from various shady dealers in eWaste, and then scavenge components because there is no official way to buy the part. Or acquire schematics from dodgy Russian / Chinese ftp sites because the maker will not make them available. (yes Apple I am talking about you!) Of even if you can get a part, there is no legal way of obtaining the manufacturers configuration software that would enable the new part to be "keyed" to the existing system. (John Deere being famous for ****ing off lots of farmers with this one) Or you can get a part but that relies on firmware that the maker does not make available etc. How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? If buying a complete board is an option. Isn't the latter what's done at present? Not when that is either not an option, or the fix is a trivial bit of board rework. It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Well quite possibly - hence why any legislation needs to impose a requirement that the costs be proportionate and "reasonable". Needless to say the makers will use any argument in the book they can - say claiming that the product is too dangerous to allow "unskilled" repair (hoping to conflate unskilled and third party repairers), or they will erect bogus "authorised repairer programs" like apple did in the US to try and stave off legislation. Needless to say they hoops one is required to jump through to qualify to join and onerous, and once joined the T&Sc actually prevent you from offering a useful repair service in the first place!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 10:36, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:49:51 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". This is an EU-led initiative. It's a movement that has been driven mainly from the US - arguments have been rumbling there for many years. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". I had an interesting one with an after market starter motor for the old car. Basically a modern Denso unit adapted to fit my car by making an custom adaptor plate. Two companies do much the same - PowerLite and WOSP. I had a PowerLite, and a small thrust washer broke inside the pinion drive - allowing the pinion to move freely on its splines, and only engage when it felt like it. PowerLite don't supply any spares, and the best they could offer was an new unit at a slightly reduced price. WOSP - who are slightly more expensive, carry a full range of spare parts. And a fitting kit for the pinion, which includes this washer (it's a one off - not a standard washer) cost a couple of quid. But PowerLite, being cheaper for much the same thing, have the biggest share of this market. And not supplying spares likely keeps down costs. Which likely means the average customer wants the cheapest price, not the availability of spares. -- *Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman writes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Playing a green card without cost to the Govt? Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so long, I can't quite spot where this is going. It all stems from socialism. Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs and allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the government being involved. manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive job creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without obsolescence. What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to repairmen. Why socialism? Well its like renewable energy - the alleged aim is to on the one hand get wealth into peoples paws and on the other, to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, but teh method chosen becomes an end in itself that doesnt really help., Instead of jut giving people decent stiff free, or building nucler power stations, we end up 'creating jobs' or 'renewable energy' I see no virtue in work. Peole should stay at home and get paid for doing so. And let the robots build decent stuff that doesn't need replacing every few years. We need to decouple wealth creation from 'work' once and for all. Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here? Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees? -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki" |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more €śgeneric€ť components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service. It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de jure... All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has increased, as a result. The consumer hasn't really won Tim -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10 Mar 2021 at 11:21:04 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote: In article , Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". I had an interesting one with an after market starter motor for the old car. Basically a modern Denso unit adapted to fit my car by making an custom adaptor plate. Two companies do much the same - PowerLite and WOSP. I had a PowerLite, and a small thrust washer broke inside the pinion drive - allowing the pinion to move freely on its splines, and only engage when it felt like it. PowerLite don't supply any spares, and the best they could offer was an new unit at a slightly reduced price. WOSP - who are slightly more expensive, carry a full range of spare parts. And a fitting kit for the pinion, which includes this washer (it's a one off - not a standard washer) cost a couple of quid. But PowerLite, being cheaper for much the same thing, have the biggest share of this market. And not supplying spares likely keeps down costs. Which likely means the average customer wants the cheapest price, not the availability of spares. Or perhaps the average customer only finds this out too late? -- Roger Hayter |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". It's not clear to me from skimming the Government's papers if they propose to follow the EU Directive which IIRC only requires spare parts and repair manuals to be made available to professional repairers. And also allows parts to be bundled - e.g. w/m bearings only available with a shiny new s/s drum. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 11:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Playing a green card without cost to the Govt? Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so long, I can't quite spot where this is going. It all stems from socialism. Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs and allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the government being involved. manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive job creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without obsolescence. What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to repairmen. You seem to forget the issues regarding landfill, CO2 generation from making new and not repairing old. It's our throw away society and you are misguided to associate this with socialism. Why socialism? Well its like renewable energy - the alleged aim is to on Â*the one hand get wealth into peoples pawsÂ* and on the other, to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, but teh method chosen becomes an end in itself that doesnt really help., Instead of jut giving people decent stiff free, or building nucler power stations, we end up 'creating jobs' or 'renewable energy' It does help, as would building more nuclear power stations. The failure is through allowing defective power stations to poison the environment to put off the public. Your obsession doesn't help, any more T i m promotes veganism through his fanatical views. I see no virtue in work. Peole should stay at home and get paid for doing so. And let the robots build decent stuff that doesn't need replacing every few years. I agree, there should be a national wage. Oldies get it and call it a pension. Work should be a choice, where pay and keeping the lion share of that pay as an encouragement to work. Of course that's a socialist idea, where you would subject everyone to draconian means testing. We need to decouple wealth creation from 'work' once and for all. So you can sit on your bum doing nothing? Wealth creation is all about work with the aid of investment. When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then perhaps you have a point. Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here? Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees? |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote: On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers. It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places like eBay. The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other ways...) John It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM. That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to provide spare parts. Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold? |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 10:59, Nick Odell wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote: Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more €śgeneric€ť components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service. Would be nice, but I remain sceptical. I wonder how Apple will respond ? It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Which is why we should enact any legislation together with the EU, so Apple couldn't afford to do a 'Facebook'. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote: Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more €śgeneric€ť components rather than custom ones.Â* This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service. It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de jure... All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has increased, as a result. Can you cite any link to show that to be the case? The consumer hasn't really won It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer only part. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start. Making all parts third party replaceable as well. Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device. -- Adrian C |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de jure... All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has increased, as a result. Can you cite any link to show that to be the case? The consumer hasn't really won It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer only part. You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car batteries? Only swappable by dealers with software. -- Adrian C |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 11:49:34 +0000, Robin wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". It's not clear to me from skimming the Government's papers if they propose to follow the EU Directive which IIRC only requires spare parts and repair manuals to be made available to professional repairers. And also allows parts to be bundled - e.g. w/m bearings only available with a shiny new s/s drum. So TL:DR a difference that makes no difference ? I doubt that. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
We tend to buy mainly Bosch appliances one of the reasons being the availability of spare parts. Their website has nice exploded diagrams of all their appliances with all the parts clearly listed and so far I have always been able to source any required part without restriction. The only thing you cannot get are the service manuals and I hope the right to repair will make them available, then again making them only available to €śtrained professionals€ť is another way of cashing in by offering repair courses.
Some years back we owned a series of Nissan cars and they used to sell the official workshop manuals and I got one which was the size of a telephone book. It was OK for a lot of the standard jobs but you soon got into jobs that needed this or that service tool. Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual. Richard |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 13:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 12:38:35 +0000, Fredxx wrote: On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote: On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote: On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers. It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places like eBay. The BBC need to do some explaining. I have a Samsung TV which used to support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate. I was perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not having it at all. (I know there are other ways...) John It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM. That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to provide spare parts. Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold? I'd bet there are still some systems somewhere limping along on a copy. I agree, but how long would you expect a hardware manufacturer to carry spares? 10 years, 20 years 30 years? I expect it will be 6 years, as it would be consistent with legal claims. It would be a start. One issue would be repair manuals containing proprietary information. Another is that the importer is deemed to be the manufacturer, they come and go making a mockery of the proposed legislation. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start. Making all parts third party replaceable as well. Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device. Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple, where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming. There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:52, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote: On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de jure... All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has increased, as a result. Can you cite any link to show that to be the case? The consumer hasn't really won It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer only part. You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car batteries? Only swappable by dealers with software. I was aware of that, down to their smart charging. I would be very surprised if the car would stop if you simply changed the battery. Or if it didn't learn the new battery characteristic over time. BICBW |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start. Making all parts third party replaceable as well. Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device. Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple, where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming. There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege. Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car types that are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres have a 100% VAT put on them. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote: On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? Hopefully. Apple needs to change its ways. Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start. Making all parts third party replaceable as well. Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device. Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple, where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming. There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege. Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car types that are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres have a 100% VAT put on them. Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable? I don't get your point? Practicalities of custom and practice, and of course safety will always feature. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 05:36:51 -0800, Tricky Dicky wrote:
We tend to buy mainly Bosch appliances one of the reasons being the availability of spare parts. Their website has nice exploded diagrams of all their appliances with all the parts clearly listed and so far I have always been able to source any required part without restriction. The only thing you cannot get are the service manuals and I hope the right to repair will make them available, then again making them only available to €śtrained professionals€ť is another way of cashing in by offering repair courses. I agree. On the rare occasions that I haven't been able to work it out for myself, or I want the quickest way, there are sometimes good YouTube ionstructions - as long as you know what you are going for. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me ÂŁ1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". The availability of spare parts will help although I think it is only seven years after production has stopped. What I would like is a manual for my washing machine (pdf). Also if it stops unexpectedly it should tell me why, i.e. what it is waiting for. My Samsung TV is now getting on for 10 years old. I wonder how much longer it will last. A new one would be less that half the price I paid. I would think that a repair would be uneconomic if I had to pay for labour. My fridge freezer compressor failed. Unfortunately a DIY replacement is not possible because of the gas. I did find someone who could repair it, but the cost was about 2/3rds of what I had paid for it 13 years earlier so I decided jut to buy a new one. -- Michael Chare |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote:
When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then perhaps you have a point. A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that during the pandemic. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 10:46, Roger Hayter wrote: On 10 Mar 2021 at 10:26:26 GMT, "John Walliker" wrote: On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 09:43:52 UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Â* On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote: Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Â* Â* Will this make any practical difference? Â* Hopefully. Â* Apple needs to change its ways. In contrast, Dell provide detailed downloadable service manuals for their computers. It is also often possible to buy spare parts, either direct from Dell or from places like eBay. The BBC need to do some explaining.Â* I have a Samsung TV which used to support iPlayer but this capability was removed, apparently at the request of the BBC, because its performance was not adequate.Â* I was perfectly happy to accept occasional crashes in preference to not having it at all.Â*Â* (I know there are other ways...) John It would be interesting if all software sellers were required to support Windows 95 and 16MB of RAM. That would depend on how long a manufacturer would be required to provide spare parts. Remind us, when was the last copy of Windows 95 sold? Not sure win95 is really a valid comparison. You can still write software for it today if you wanted, and it's not as if MS ever tried the keep the API secret or prevent others from developing for it. Quite a different prospect when you take your 15 month old macbook to the Apple shop, and they say it's not repairable, but we can sell you a new one, recycle the old, and no, you can't have your data back. (or they quote a repair fee 50% more than the cost of replacement) etc. In many cases there is no official repair option - especially things like water damaged iPhones - Apple categorically state nothing can be done and refuse to even acknowledge that 3rd party repair is an option. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 15:18, GB wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote: When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then perhaps you have a point. A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that during the pandemic. No, they need to get out from their houses. Very few people *work*, when 'at work', anyway, for most of the time -- "The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo Tolstoy |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
On 10/03/2021 15:18, GB wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:36, Fredxx wrote: When a robot can build your house and cook every meal for you, then perhaps you have a point. A lot of people need to work for their mental wellbeing. We've seen that during the pandemic. Personal contact doesn't have to be through work, but it certainly helps. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote: On 10 Mar 2021 at 11:21:04 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)" wrote: In article , Jeff Layman wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". I had an interesting one with an after market starter motor for the old car. Basically a modern Denso unit adapted to fit my car by making an custom adaptor plate. Two companies do much the same - PowerLite and WOSP. I had a PowerLite, and a small thrust washer broke inside the pinion drive - allowing the pinion to move freely on its splines, and only engage when it felt like it. PowerLite don't supply any spares, and the best they could offer was an new unit at a slightly reduced price. WOSP - who are slightly more expensive, carry a full range of spare parts. And a fitting kit for the pinion, which includes this washer (it's a one off - not a standard washer) cost a couple of quid. But PowerLite, being cheaper for much the same thing, have the biggest share of this market. And not supplying spares likely keeps down costs. Which likely means the average customer wants the cheapest price, not the availability of spares. Or perhaps the average customer only finds this out too late? In my case, yes. The PowerLite website suggests they have UK factories making the things. Very impressive. But my guess is they are simply a re-seller of something made elsewhere. -- *Do paediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In article ,
Fredxx wrote: On 10/03/2021 11:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 10/03/2021 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077 Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover "administrative costs". Playing a green card without cost to the Govt? Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so long, I can't quite spot where this is going. It all stems from socialism. Basically we can make a lot of material wealth. With remarkably few people The problem is how to distribute it. Consumerism creates jobs and allows the private sector to distribute the wealth instead of the government being involved. manufacture, supply, distribution sales, and marketing - all massive job creation schemes that would be totally unnecessary without obsolescence. What 'right to repair' does is shift a very few of these jobs to repairmen. You seem to forget the issues regarding landfill, CO2 generation from making new and not repairing old. It's our throw away society and you are misguided to associate this with socialism. Remember Turnip is an ardent Trump supporter. So uses socialism as an insult. With not a clue as to what it actually is. -- *What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote: On 10/03/2021 12:43, Fredxx wrote: On 10/03/2021 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de jure... All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has increased, as a result. Can you cite any link to show that to be the case? The consumer hasn't really won It makes repair much easier and cheaper if there are multiple independent sources of the same component, rather than being a dealer only part. You know about current model BMW (traditional engine, not electric) car batteries? Only swappable by dealers with software. Willing to bet it's easy to get pirated software to do this. Same as all car maker's stuff. -- *If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
In message , Jethro_uk
writes Didn't some flavours of Windows 7 come with an inbuilt XP virtual machine ? IIRC not quite. If you bought W7 with a Pro licence, then you could download the XP VM software and run it for free, otherwise you had to buy a separate licence for it. Adrian -- To Reply : replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet |
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