"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".

On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle innovation

I doubt it given that most is made in China now.

but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around
more €œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.

I doubt that too and that would certainly stifle innovation.

This would reduce the cost of providing a spares service.

But would make it a lot harder to stand out from the competition.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit goes
wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV "more
repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete circuit
board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done at
present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they see
fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to cover
"administrative costs".

Playing a green card without cost to the Govt?

Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

I can given so little except cars is manufactured in the UK now.

Unreliable imports from Turkey used to prop up repair activities here?

Not many votes in telling manufacturers to give longer free guarantees?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:11:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Planned obsolescence has been a factor in maintaining employment for so
long, I can't quite spot where this is going.

I can

Of COURSE you can, you senile know-it-all and designer of a computer OS!
VBG

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:59, Nick Odell wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge
what
they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P
to cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed
around
more €œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce
the cost of providing a spares service.

Would be nice, but I remain sceptical.

I wonder how Apple will respond ?

It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job
and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the
Atlantic.

Which is why we should enact any legislation together with the EU, so
Apple couldn't afford to do a 'Facebook'.

It was legislation that got facebook to do that.

"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.

Thats bull**** with all but the secure zone and fingerprint sensor.

Tricky Dicky wrote

We tend to buy mainly Bosch appliances one of the reasons
being the availability of spare parts. Their website has nice
exploded diagrams of all their appliances with all the parts
clearly listed and so far I have always been able to source
any required part without restriction.

Problem is that particularly with their dishwasher, the bulk of
what needs to be replaced is the fancy integrated pump, heater
etc which costs more than a working full bosch dishwasher.

The only thing you cannot get are the service manuals
and I hope the right to repair will make them available,

Yeah, that would be handy. I only buy new
laptops that have full service manuals available.

then again making them only available to €œtrained professionals€�
is another way of cashing in by offering repair courses.

Some years back we owned a series of Nissan cars and
they used to sell the official workshop manuals and I got
one which was the size of a telephone book. It was OK
for a lot of the standard jobs but you soon got into jobs
that needed this or that service tool.

I did that with my VW Beetle and when I needed to replace
one of the front wheel bearings, asked the dealer who I had
got the new bearing from for a loan of the service tool that
the workshop manual said was needed. He said they didnt
bother with it and they just bashed it with a big hammer.
That worked fine. They were still doing full engine rebuilds
at that time when any car, not just VWs failed the emission
test, pre computers in cars.

Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend
using a Castrol grease tin to drift in a bearing,
no such chance with the official manual.

Forget what the Haynes manual said
about that with the Beetle wheel bearing.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke car
types that are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new tyres
have a 100% VAT put on them.

Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable? I
don't get your point?

I didnt the first time I read it, but do now. He is suggesting
that we should be encouraged to retread tyres by having a
100% VAT on new ones. Clearly he doesnt own a car.

Practicalities of custom and practice, and of course safety will always
feature.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 08:37:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 10/03/2021 15:53, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:27:24 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2021 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Not sure win95 is really a valid comparison. You can still write
software for it today if you wanted, and it's not as if MS ever tried
the keep the API secret or prevent others from developing for it.

You can also spin up a virtual machine to do it in.

Didn't some flavours of Windows 7 come with an inbuilt XP virtual
machine ?

It had windows virtual PC. Later supplanted by Hyper-V and Window
subsystem for linux.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to drift
in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex, the Haynes manual for the past
two or three decades have not covered much of the car, or especially
it's electrical systems.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:27:24 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2021 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Not sure win95 is really a valid comparison. You can still write
software for it today if you wanted, and it's not as if MS ever tried
the keep the API secret or prevent others from developing for it.

You can also spin up a virtual machine to do it in.

Didn't some flavours of Windows 7 come with an inbuilt XP virtual
machine ?

Not inbuilt but certainly downloadable.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:15:03 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't some flavours of Windows 7 come with an inbuilt XP virtual
machine ?

IIRC not quite. If you bought W7 with a Pro licence, then you could
download the XP VM software and run it for free,

With Enterprise too.

otherwise you had to buy a separate licence for it.

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to
drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less routine maintenance and
usually tell you with an error code what the car
has decided has failed sensor wise etc.

the Haynes manual for the past two or three decades have not covered much
of the car, or especially it's electrical systems.

But doesn't really need to most of the time now.

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods. In real terms most parts seem to
be available if you do a search and many are common across several makes of
while goods. Most people just dont know what to do when it comes to fixing
things.

Replacing an SMD component would be beyond most people. Even service people
swap out boards.

I fix things but only if the hassle isnt too much.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 11:17:06 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less

You just HAVE to auto-contradict, eh, you clinically insane sociopathic
senile troll?

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 11/03/2021 10:29, Radio Man wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


I think it is mainly aimed at white goods.

Some here might care that servers and welders are AIUI first out of the
blocks!


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 10/03/2021 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like
apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Â* Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke
car types that are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new
tyres have a 100% VAT put on them.

Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable?
I don't get your point?

I didnt the first time I read it, but do now. He is suggesting
that we should be encouraged to retread tyres by having a
100% VAT on new ones. Clearly he doesnt own a car.

I see, if it save resources then I don't see the issue in a 100% duty.
However, old tyres do have alternative uses, such as tiles. Not all go
to landfill.

Practicalities of custom and practice, and of course safety will
always feature.

On 10/03/2021 21:38, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:59, Nick Odell wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:50:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:40:22 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge
what
they see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant
P&P
to cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation but on the up side, it could lead to products designed
around
more €œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.Â* This would reduce
the cost of providing a spares service.

Would be nice, but I remain sceptical.

I wonder how Apple will respond ?

It might be amusing if they decided to do a Facebook vs. Australia job
and refuse to sell their fruity products on the eastern side of the
Atlantic.

Which is why we should enact any legislation together with the EU, so
Apple couldn't afford to do a 'Facebook'.

It was legislation that got facebook to do that.

Against a small population. They might treat Europe differently with
nearly 2 orders of magnitude higher population.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones. This would reduce the cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are de
jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour has
increased, as a result.

The consumer hasn't really won

this isn't about the consumer

it's about the environment

and "protecting" the environment always puts up costs

please, no discussion about where it's worthwhile or not

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the battery
dies

tim... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the battery
dies

Um, just because the back doesnt flip off doesnt mean that batteries
arent replaceable. Ive changed several iPhone batteries of various
generations.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"Fred" wrote in message
...


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to
drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less routine maintenance and
usually tell you with an error code what the car
has decided has failed sensor wise etc.


mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will cost
you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

for a car that was only worth 1000, I was forced to scrap it (150 scrap
value, drove it until the next MOT/Service required so that would have been
another 200 cost)

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to drift
in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex, the Haynes manual for the past
two or three decades have not covered much of the car, or especially
it's electrical systems.

First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one for
an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing changed
since then.

--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will cost
you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

That is the problem. Mechanics now rely on being told what to replace -
rather than working it out themselves.

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tim... used his keyboard to write :
mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will cost
you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

The diagnostics always require some skill in interpretation. Given
clues by the diagnostics, you can usually get the test gear out to see
what is happening.

on 11/03/2021, Dave Plowman (News) supposed :
First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one for
an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing changed
since then.

The Haynes manuals used to be based on the manufacturers version, plus
their own experience gained in stripping cars down. They stopped doing
that long ago, now they just repeat excerpts from the manufacturers
manuals.

My last Granada, the final version, was bought cheap with lots of
electrical issues. I bought the Haynes manual assuming they were like
of old, with a full set of diagrams. I was very wrong, so I complained
to Haynes who very helpfully posted me a full A3 set of the
manufacturers diagrams. They would have filled several Haynes manuals.
....Yes, I did manage to sort out all of its issues and ran it for many
years, whilst hoping Ford might bring out a successor to the Granada.

Radio Man submitted this idea :
Replacing an SMD component would be beyond most people. Even service people
swap out boards.

I fix things but only if the hassle isnt too much.

I'm a bit obsessive about making things work, or work for me, better
than they were originally designed to do.

Leaving that aside, if something fails, I try to ensure it will not
fail again with the same fault. Our washing / drier must be almost 10
years old now, it first failed at just over 12 months old and outside
its warranty. It's motherboard had gone faulty. A very new design,
there was no information I could find on a possible repair, the only
option was repair the m/b or replace it. I tracked it down to a failed
electrolytic, mounted a hot resistor and a heatsink, the cap had begun
to swell and was a low temperature rating. I replaced it for 10p with a
higher temperature rated version and it has been fine since - I also
posted the fix on the whitegoods site, for the benefit of others with
the same issue. As a result I received lots of thanks from others who
had suffered the same failure.

Next the drier failed. A simple bi-metal overheat trip, which once trip
could not (as designed) be reset. The manufacturers fix was a complete
replacement heater/condenser section. A tiny hole drilled in the case
of the trip, allowed that to be reset with a watch makers screwdriver.

We have not used the drier for many years though, instead we line dry
using a fan and dehumidifier system, I set up in the utility.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin to drift
in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex, the Haynes manual for the past
two or three decades have not covered much of the car, or especially
it's electrical systems.

First workshop manual I bought was in the 60s. A genuine factory one for
an MG. it was head and shoulders above the Haynes one. And nothing changed
since then.

I bought a manual for my Anglia _ not a Haynes - a bit cheaper. There is
one sentence that I still remember after nearly 60 years " If the
windscreen wipers fail to operate or operate intermittently, connect a 0-15
volt meter across the terminals and check that a current of 5 amps is being
drawn."

How to find the wiper motor waa never explained

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 11/03/2021 11:19, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 10:40, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"? How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost? Isn't the latter what's
done
at present? It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".


On the down side I think it might just put prices up and stifle
innovation
but on the up side, it could lead to products designed around more
€œgeneric€� components rather than custom ones.Â* This would reduce the
cost
of providing a spares service.

It already has done that in the car industry - where pattern parts are
de jure...

All that has happened is that the price of new cars and service labour
has increased, as a result.

The consumer hasn't really won

this isn't about the consumer

it's about the environment

No, its about planned obsolesence by EU diktat mostly

and "protecting" the environment always puts up costs

please, no discussion about where it's worthwhile or not






--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 11/03/2021 11:23, tim... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the
battery dies



neighbour got his iphone battery replaced no trouble.

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 11/03/2021 11:34, tim... wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
...


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky explained on 10/03/2021 :
Whereas a Haynes manual might recommend using a Castrol grease tin
to drift in a bearing, no such chance with the official manual.

Cars have become very much more complex,

But require much less routine maintenance and
usually tell you with an error code what the car
has decided has failed sensor wise etc.


mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will
cost you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

for a car that was only worth 1000, I was forced to scrap it (150 scrap
value, drove it until the next MOT/Service required so that would have
been another 200 cost)



Mine is showing a wonderful array of faults...'gearbox fault/handbrake
fault/DSC not available/cruise control not available/'


Apparently it may be a combination of a brake switch that was
subsequently modified and needs upgrading to later spec, and my habit
of left foot braking and mashing the loud pedal together, to force an
upshift...

It goes away after two reboots. I will try no left foot braking and see
if it comes back ;-)

However, a plethora of sensor faults usually indicates something else -
low battery voltage is a classic.

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
€“ H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

On 11/03/2021 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will cost
you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

That is the problem. Mechanics now rely on being told what to replace -
rather than working it out themselves.

I once had a company car that snapped a cambelt and had to have the head
rebuilt. It was not running right afterwards - it was fine most of the
time, but would occasionally refuse to accelerate why you tried to
overtake someone.

I spent a couple of weeks driving with a data logger plugged into the
OBD2 port and then that was returned to the garage, who said they
couldn't work out the problem and they referred it on to Vauxhall.

Vauxhall looked at the data and diagnosed an engine bay wiring harness
problem, replacement cost £1200.

In the meantime the garage had closed down and the car had to go to
another one.

It went into the garage one morning, due to be there all day, but was
returned a couple of hours later. I queried how they'd done it so fast,
only to be told that one of their "old school" mechanics had had a look
at it and changed the ignition leads - it ran perfectly from then on!

On 10/03/2021 11:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference? If an SMD integrated circuit
goes wrong in a TV, will making the SMD itself available make the TV
"more repairable"?

Yes, very much so. Currently independent repairers are frequently forced
to buy scrapped boards from various shady dealers in eWaste, and then
scavenge components because there is no official way to buy the part.

Well, it depends if the repairer has the skill and equipment to remove
the old SMD and replace it with a new one. If the original was a
multiconnection device flow-soldered in, I doubt many would be able to
replace it. Then, of course, you might have the issue of a multilayered
PCB where a via or two has failed, or is very close to the smd.

Pricing is a very relevant issue. If the smd is priced at a high level,
and you have to add to that the repairer's fee, in the long run it might
not work out much different from a completely new circuit board which
only needs to be plugged in.

Or acquire schematics from dodgy Russian / Chinese ftp sites because the
maker will not make them available.

Maybe that's something to be considered for amending legislation. ;-)

(yes Apple I am talking about you!)

Of even if you can get a part, there is no legal way of obtaining the
manufacturers configuration software that would enable the new part to
be "keyed" to the existing system.

I can't see a way round that if it is considered commercially confidential.

(John Deere being famous for ****ing off lots of farmers with this one)

Or you can get a part but that relies on firmware that the maker does
not make available etc.

Printer cartridges come to mind!

How much will it cost? How much would the complete
circuit board with SMD already fitted cost?

If buying a complete board is an option.

Isn't the latter what's done
at present?

Not when that is either not an option, or the fix is a trivial bit of
board rework.

It seems to me the manufacturers will just charge what they
see fit for the replacement part, no doubt with an exorbitant P&P to
cover "administrative costs".

Well quite possibly - hence why any legislation needs to impose a
requirement that the costs be proportionate and "reasonable".

Needless to say the makers will use any argument in the book they can -
say claiming that the product is too dangerous to allow "unskilled"
repair (hoping to conflate unskilled and third party repairers), or they
will erect bogus "authorised repairer programs" like apple did in the US
to try and stave off legislation. Needless to say they hoops one is
required to jump through to qualify to join and onerous, and once joined
the T&Sc actually prevent you from offering a useful repair service in
the first place!)

The first few test cases of non-compliance in the EU/UK are going to be
most interesting!

--

Jeff

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 13:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021 at 13:44:40 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:50, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/2021 12:39, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

Making all parts third party replaceable as well.

Apple is now locking part compatibility in software, you need to be
an
authorized Apple Tech to make major part changes to a device.
Perhaps the tax regime should be different for manufacturers like
apple,
where a super VAT band is introduced for ones not conforming.

There is no point in forcing Apple to conform, where the alternative
is
that they, or perhaps their users, pay handsomely for the privilege.

Not very practical. Of course you could apply this to things lioke
car types that are dumped, you have to get the old ones repaied new
tyres have a 100% VAT put on them.

Are you suggesting a manufacturer would make their tyres irreparable? I
don't get your point?

I didnt the first time I read it, but do now. He is suggesting
that we should be encouraged to retread tyres by having a
100% VAT on new ones. Clearly he doesnt own a car.

I see, if it save resources then I don't see the issue in a 100% duty.

I do when only fools use retread car tyres anymore.

However, old tyres do have alternative uses,

Yeah, slum dwellers sometimes use them to keep the roof on.
https://www.alamy.com/slums-in-sweet...150353732.html

such as tiles.

And some very rugged flip flops/sandals in the 3rd world.

Not all go to landfill.

Practicalities of custom and practice, and of course safety will always
feature.

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:43:47 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 10/03/2021 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56340077

Will this make any practical difference?

Hopefully.

Apple needs to change its ways.

Making their batteries user replaceable would be a start.

That's not going to happen, hardly any of the top end
smartphones are done like that anymore, for a reason.

and that reason is:

so that you are forced to throw it away and buy a new phone when the
battery dies

Nope, and there are plenty of places that will replace the battery for you.

Even apple does that, for a fee.

The real reason is because it makes very thin phones much
easier and that's the current fashion and it makes waterproofing
very easy. Its not practical with a user replaceable battery. And
it allows a bigger battery in the same sized phone.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will
cost
you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

That is the problem. Mechanics now rely on being told what to replace -
rather than working it out themselves.

Plenty of them don’t. Mate of mine who is a mechanic
makes decent money buying Mercs off ebay, fixing the
fault that others decided was to risky to try fixing cost
wise and selling them for twice what he paid for the
car and the replacement parts. And the locals get him
to do the harder stuff too.

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
tim... used his keyboard to write :
mine just indicated it was a choice of sensors

the garage said, we can guess and if we guess right first time it will
cost you 80 quid

if we guess right last time, it will be 5-600

The diagnostics always require some skill in interpretation.

Not always, they often get it right.

Given clues by the diagnostics, you can usually get the test gear out to
see what is happening.

Or decide if the sensor etc that has been claimed to
have failed would produce the symptoms you see.