Although I have seen no figures published, I am guessing the black
population has has suffered more than average with covid-19, partly
because of living in bigger groups and maybe their system responses.

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some way
the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is how the
virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

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"jon" wrote in message ...

Although I have seen no figures published, I am guessing the black
population has has suffered more than average with covid-19, partly
because of living in bigger groups and maybe their system responses.

On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

Unlikely given that the first mutation happened in
Wuhan and there are very few black people there.

jon wrote

Although I have seen no figures published,

There have been some.

I am guessing the black population has has
suffered more than average with covid-19,

Yes they have in the UK and the RSA.

partly because of living in bigger groups
and maybe their system responses.

Yes, that is known with both.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they
are stopped in some way the ones that survive live
to create more of their kind. That is how the
virus arms race goes and always has done.

But some like smallpox hardly mutate at all.

"jon" wrote in message ...

Although I have seen no figures published, I am guessing the black
population has has suffered more than average with covid-19, partly
because of living in bigger groups and maybe their system responses.

"jon" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in
whether the first covid-19 mutation occurred in Africa,

Nope it happened in Wuhan, China.

as it is the cradle of civilisation.

It wasnt the cradle of covid tho.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 19:46:46 +1100, Rcantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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jon wrote:
Although I have seen no figures published, I am guessing the black
population has has suffered more than average with covid-19, partly
because of living in bigger groups and maybe their system responses.

Something I was reading today, mentioned a cancer patient
who was immunosuppressed, had COVID for an extended period of
time, and it's possible they used convalescent plasma to
help them. And that person had COVID with deletions in the
spike and would be an example of a source of viable mutations.

That suggests the duration of an infection, lends itself
to the virus getting to do more mutating. The human host
in such cases, functioning like a bat immune system and
co-existing with the virus.

There are thousands and thousands of mutations to date.
They started sorting them, early on, on a web site.
You could see the shift happening with time. But the
analysis at the time, was that these mutations were
not cause for concern.

The real test comes, when you start vaccinating people,
and applying evolutionary pressure.

But perhaps it was the way we treated certain patients,
that lent itself to the mutations we see today.
Constructing a patient as a "mutation factory".

Paul

On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.


The virus is thought to produce one or two mutations every month, so the
first almost certainly occurred in China. The first mutation that
produced a significant change in the action of the virus was found in
Kent and is know as the UK variant. That actually has 23 differences
from the original virus.


--
Colin Bignell

On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely the
genesis of mankind.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 08/02/2021 10:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live toÂ* create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely the
genesis of mankind.



That's how it was when we were kids but I think the current thinking is
that civilisation may have started independently in a few different
places. The Fertile Crescent (including Nile Delta), but also Indus
valley, north China plain and Mesoamerica.

On 08/02/2021 11:34, Pancho wrote:
On 08/02/2021 10:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live toÂ* create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely
the genesis of mankind.

That's how it was when we were kids but I think the current thinking is
that civilisation may have started independently in a few different
places. The Fertile Crescent (including Nile Delta), but also Indus
valley, north China plain and Mesoamerica.

Yeah well Egypt isn't "really" Africa, which usually means sub-Sahara
(since there was a Sahara).

--
Max Demian

On 08/02/2021 12:02, Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 11:34, Pancho wrote:
On 08/02/2021 10:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in
some
way the ones that survive live toÂ* create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely
the genesis of mankind.

That's how it was when we were kids but I think the current thinking
is that civilisation may have started independently in a few different
places. The Fertile Crescent (including Nile Delta), but also Indus
valley, north China plain and Mesoamerica.

Yeah well Egypt isn't "really" Africa, which usually means sub-Sahara
(since there was a Sahara).


FWIW. The Sahara was probably less of a desert about 4000 BCE. circa
first civilisations. So perhaps the distinction wasn't so great.

https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

On 08/02/2021 11:34, Pancho wrote:
On 08/02/2021 10:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live toÂ* create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely
the genesis of mankind.



That's how it was when we were kids but I think the current thinking is
that civilisation may have started independently in a few different
places. The Fertile Crescent (including Nile Delta), but also Indus
valley, north China plain and Mesoamerica.

But none of those are 'Africa' even Egypt is more 'Mediterranean'


--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

nightjar wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.


The virus is thought to produce one or two mutations every month, so the
first almost certainly occurred in China. The first mutation that
produced a significant change in the action of the virus was found in
Kent and is know as the UK variant. That actually has 23 differences
from the original virus.

A picture, but a year old.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...U/v1/-1x-1.jpg

"Bedford and Neher are limited by the amount of genome data
that is available. So far almost 1,000 patients have had
their viral genomes analyzed, out of more than 350,000
people who have been infected."

More recent.

https://www.gisaid.org/phylodynamics/global/nextstrain/

Paul

Paul wrote
jon wrote

Although I have seen no figures published, I am guessing the black
population has has suffered more than average with covid-19, partly
because of living in bigger groups and maybe their system responses.

Something I was reading today, mentioned a cancer patient
who was immunosuppressed, had COVID for an extended period of
time, and it's possible they used convalescent plasma to
help them. And that person had COVID with deletions in the
spike and would be an example of a source of viable mutations.

That suggests the duration of an infection, lends itself to the virus
getting to do more mutating.

It would be more surprising if it didnt given that
the virus has been breeding for much longer
and so more successful mutations have more
opportunity to prevail over the original strain.

The human host in such cases, functioning like a bat immune system and
co-existing with the virus.

Thats unlikely.

There are thousands and thousands of mutations to date. They started
sorting them, early on, on a web site. You could see the shift happening
with time. But the analysis at the time, was that these mutations were not
cause for concern.

Because none of them became dominant
and didnt mostly involve mutation of the
spike protein that is used in the vaccines.

The real test comes, when you start vaccinating people, and applying
evolutionary pressure.

Vaccinating doesnt really do much of that.

But perhaps it was the way we treated certain patients,
that lent itself to the mutations we see today.

Seems unlikely given that there never was much
in the way of treatment, mostly just ventilators
and later oxygen to help the individual to survive
until its body killed the virus off if the individual
survived and with a lot of care to ensure that any
virus in that individual didnt infect anyone else.

Constructing a patient as a "mutation factory".

See above.

"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

The virus is thought to produce one or two mutations every month,

Much more than that in fact, most of no significance.

so the first almost certainly occurred in China.

Particularly as early on there was very little treatment available
at all and infected individuals were just kept apart from non
infected people and they either died or recovered.

The first mutation that produced a significant change in the action of the
virus was found in Kent and is know as the UK variant. That actually has
23 differences from the original virus.

"Pancho" wrote in message
...
On 08/02/2021 12:02, Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 11:34, Pancho wrote:
On 08/02/2021 10:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 07:48, jon wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:04:57 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in
some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

Brian

Same as human evolution, but I was interested in whether the first
covid-19
mutation occurred in Africa, as it is the cradle of civilisation.

No, it isn't. That term is applied to Mesopotamia. Africa is merely the
genesis of mankind.

That's how it was when we were kids but I think the current thinking is
that civilisation may have started independently in a few different
places. The Fertile Crescent (including Nile Delta), but also Indus
valley, north China plain and Mesoamerica.

Yeah well Egypt isn't "really" Africa, which usually means sub-Sahara
(since there was a Sahara).


FWIW. The Sahara was probably less of a desert about 4000 BCE. circa first
civilisations. So perhaps the distinction wasn't so great.

https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

You need to go a lot further back than that before there is much less of a
desert there.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 03:25:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 03:30:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FWIW. The Sahara was probably less of a desert about 4000 BCE. circa first
civilisations. So perhaps the distinction wasn't so great.

https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

You need to go a lot further back than that before there is much less of a
desert there.

Yeah, pathological Mr Know-it-all? HOW much further back, sick idiot? BG

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On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 03:20:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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On 08/02/2021 08:49, Rod Speed wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote
Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in
some way the ones that survive live to* create more of their kind.
That is how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

But some like smallpox hardly mutate at all.

Although recent research into pox viruses show that they adapt in other
ways that have a similar effect when overcoming the body's defences.


--
Colin Bignell

"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/02/2021 08:49, Rod Speed wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote
Does it really matter? All viruses mutate when they are stopped in some
way the ones that survive live to create more of their kind. That is
how the virus arms race goes and always has done.

But some like smallpox hardly mutate at all.

Although recent research into pox viruses show that they adapt in other
ways that have a similar effect when overcoming the body's defences.

Doesn't explain why we managed to wipe out smallpox in the wild.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 04:29:39 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

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