On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:42:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 27/12/2020 23:36, Fred wrote:


"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 05:17:48 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On 26 Dec 2020 19:21:21 GMT, Roger Hayter wrote:

They got rid of the veto for some issues (qualified majority
vpting) some
years ago, but the sky didn't fall in.* Indeed, some people seem to
have
failed to notice.* But the ultimate veto of leaving the EU will
always be
there for every country.

Nope. The aim is and always was ever closer union. Expect the
veto AND Article 50 to be done away with going forward.

They cant just scrap Article 50 unilaterally and no way
to stop any country leaving if they choose to do that.

No chance. You wait and see. That project
was never intended to have a reverse gear.

Then why was Article 50 added later ?

A Scotsman insisted on having it when IIRC Maastricht was drafted.

And what do you claim that the EU would
do if they do remove Article 50 and a
country chooses to leave anyway ? The
EU doesn't even have an army to use
and there is nothing the EU can do if
that country stops paying the EU.


I think you have seen exactly what they can do, Close all the borders to
that country and ground all planes flying to that country.

Luxembourg for example wouldn’t las t a week, neither in all probaility
woulkd Belgium. Scandinavia has a better chance as do the ex Eastern
bloc with only one border on one side to the EU.

They'd sooner have a pan-european civil
war than face losing another member.

That wouldn't happen if a country chooses to leave.

I never thought they would do what they did when one country *did*
decide to leave. As a profound Eurosceptic they exceeded my worst
expectations by a factor of at least 5.

We were struggling to extricate ourselves and have political freedom,
they are fighting for their very survival, and its a shame that Boris
caved in, because he has allowed them to claim victory.

Because in large areas of domestic policy they still control us.

The ERG eurosceptic faction's army of lawyers have disagreed with you
on that score, NP. Cheer up. We won!

On 29/12/2020 19:03, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:42:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 27/12/2020 23:36, Fred wrote:


"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 05:17:48 +1100, "Fred" wrote:



"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On 26 Dec 2020 19:21:21 GMT, Roger Hayter wrote:

They got rid of the veto for some issues (qualified majority
vpting) some
years ago, but the sky didn't fall in.Â* Indeed, some people seem to
have
failed to notice.Â* But the ultimate veto of leaving the EU will
always be
there for every country.

Nope. The aim is and always was ever closer union. Expect the
veto AND Article 50 to be done away with going forward.

They cant just scrap Article 50 unilaterally and no way
to stop any country leaving if they choose to do that.

No chance. You wait and see. That project
was never intended to have a reverse gear.

Then why was Article 50 added later ?

A Scotsman insisted on having it when IIRC Maastricht was drafted.

And what do you claim that the EU would
do if they do remove Article 50 and a
country chooses to leave anyway ? The
EU doesn't even have an army to use
and there is nothing the EU can do if
that country stops paying the EU.


I think you have seen exactly what they can do, Close all the borders to
that country and ground all planes flying to that country.

Luxembourg for example wouldnt las t a week, neither in all probaility
woulkd Belgium. Scandinavia has a better chance as do the ex Eastern
bloc with only one border on one side to the EU.

They'd sooner have a pan-european civil
war than face losing another member.

That wouldn't happen if a country chooses to leave.

I never thought they would do what they did when one country *did*
decide to leave. As a profound Eurosceptic they exceeded my worst
expectations by a factor of at least 5.

We were struggling to extricate ourselves and have political freedom,
they are fighting for their very survival, and its a shame that Boris
caved in, because he has allowed them to claim victory.

Because in large areas of domestic policy they still control us.

The ERG eurosceptic faction's army of lawyers have disagreed with you
on that score, NP. Cheer up. We won!

They have pointed out that the recourse has to prove that it undermined
competitivity and that the only penalty is tariffs..I was pretty tired
at 5 am when I got to that



--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:15:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The ERG eurosceptic faction's army of lawyers have disagreed with you
on that score, NP. Cheer up. We won!

They have pointed out that the recourse has to prove that it undermined
competitivity and that the only penalty is tariffs..I was pretty tired
at 5 am when I got to that

Johnson only got the ERG to agree because they realise that he will
renege on the deal as soon as it is convenient.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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On 30 Dec 2020 11:26:17 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:15:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The ERG eurosceptic faction's army of lawyers have disagreed with you
on that score, NP. Cheer up. We won!

They have pointed out that the recourse has to prove that it undermined
competitivity and that the only penalty is tariffs..I was pretty tired
at 5 am when I got to that

Johnson only got the ERG to agree because they realise that he will
renege on the deal as soon as it is convenient.

Well, he's done everything right so far at any rate so let's just hope
you're not wrong on that prediction.