I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....

On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....

https://www.plumbersforums.net/threa...as-fire.14723/

reaction seems over the top for supossid engineers...I have never had a
problem on low or with condensation...strange

On 26/12/2020 16:25, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard
to fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but
gas safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been
told 'the rules make it very difficult'.....

https://www.plumbersforums.net/threa...as-fire.14723/


reaction seems over the top for supossid engineers...I have never had a
problem on low or with condensation...strange

They make a lot of condensation.

Bill

Well all that water vapour has to go somewhere I'd suppose. I recall the
issues with stand alone paraffin heaters in the 60s and 70s where the paint
would end up yellow with the muck. I doubt that would be so bad with gas, as
it can burn purer, but surely you need to have a well ventilated room or the
oxygen levels against toxic gas would soon be rather dangerous. At least
that was whet the shop told us about the ones which ran on bottled gas and
were thus semi portable.
Brian

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"williamwright" wrote in message
...
On 26/12/2020 16:25, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....

https://www.plumbersforums.net/threa...as-fire.14723/
reaction seems over the top for supossid engineers...I have never had a
problem on low or with condensation...strange

They make a lot of condensation.

Bill

On 27/12/2020 02:40, williamwright wrote:
On 26/12/2020 16:25, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard
to fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold
but gas safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any
ideas...been told 'the rules make it very difficult'.....

https://www.plumbersforums.net/threa...as-fire.14723/


reaction seems over the top for supossid engineers...I have never had
a problem on low or with condensation...strange

They make a lot of condensation.

Bill
never seen any here ..... none .....and no carbo manoxide indications
either....

--
Brexit doesn't mean Brexit

On Saturday, 26 December 2020 at 15:30:33 UTC, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....

I'm just wondering what is the rate of air movement through the required 100 cm3 ventilation when the wind is around 63 mph outside (last night's predicted wind speed)? Does such a heater actually contribute any warmth at all in high winds and low outside air temperatures? Or would you be warmer by removing the heater and sealing up the hole in the wall?

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Well all that water vapour has to go somewhere I'd suppose. I recall the
issues with stand alone paraffin heaters in the 60s and 70s where the paint
would end up yellow with the muck. I doubt that would be so bad with gas, as
it can burn purer, but surely you need to have a well ventilated room or the
oxygen levels against toxic gas would soon be rather dangerous. At least
that was whet the shop told us about the ones which ran on bottled gas and
were thus semi portable.
Brian


There is a catalyst up near the top vent of the device,
that converts emitted CO into CO2. You could still
potentially smother, but the appliance is supposed
to have an "oxygen deprivation" sensor. I didn't
see any details on how the "ODS" works.

The CO is still not zero. There is an allowed ratio
of CO to CO2 at the output. The installation manual
does not mention what the room CO level should read
out at (at max fire). The performance check is done
by measuring CO and CO2 and taking a ratio.

"Adverts for the catalytic gas fires..."

https://www.fireplacemegastore.co.uk...less-gas-fires

"Installation manual"

http://www.ekofires.co.uk/files/prod...0D %20ERP.pdf

"This appliance is intended as a secondary source of heat only
and should not be used in a room without some form of background
heating present. If the appliance is used in a room as the sole
source of heat, then condensation may occur on colder surfaces
within the room."

"Max Energy Input 2kW Min Energy Input 1kW"

"Ignition Double Piezo Spark"

"The room size MUST be a minimum of 23 cubic meters"

It also requires an air vent, to allow some mixing of
outside fresh air, with the air in the room. And you can't
stick the vent, too close to the machine (as it throws off
the ODS). How an intake vent works, when there is no exhaust
vent, is left as an exercise for the reader of the installation
manual. It's almost as if some gas standards document calls
out a vent that size, on the assumption the device has a flue.

Paul

On 27/12/2020 09:41, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Saturday, 26 December 2020 at 15:30:33 UTC, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....

I'm just wondering what is the rate of air movement through the required 100 cm3 ventilation when the wind is around 63 mph outside (last night's predicted wind speed)? Does such a heater actually contribute any warmth at all in high winds and low outside air temperatures? Or would you be warmer by removing the heater and sealing up the hole in the wall?

my vent is to the underbuilding so not a problem....later the vent must
be in a wall so don't know if it is a problem...

On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard to
fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but gas
safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been told
'the rules make it very difficult'.....
great help you all are...not

On 27/12/2020 18:10, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 26/12/2020 15:30, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
I have had three flueless gas fires, you know the type with cats and
have never had a problem getting a gas safe enginer to fit
them....anyway a friend has had three recent knock backs with regard
to fitting one ....what has changed ?... they are still being sold but
gas safe engineers refuse to fit any more.....why? any ideas...been
told 'the rules make it very difficult'.....
great help you all are...not

just wait until you try and get a gas engineer to fit your new
conventional gas fire,,,tee hee