From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

that is their problem brian ....just take Stexerol-d3 like I do on
prescription ....

On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:

From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters. "This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low
intakes of calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.

I suspect that T i m has filed this in the 'Don't Want To Know' folder.


--
Spike

In message , Spike
writes
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.

I suspect that T i m has filed this in the 'Don't Want To Know' folder.

You must realise that *self sacrifice* is a requirement of most
religions. Disbelief is simply a mark of ignorance requiring even more
proselytizing:-(

--
Tim Lamb

On Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 23:56:28 UTC, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians..

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

Vegans tend to have lower cholesterol. Cholesterol is required to make vitamin D in our skin.

(My own cholesterol is very low - despite not being a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. And consuming significant quantities of butter, cheese and other fats. I take a vitamin D3 supplement.)

There has been a lot of discussion recently about the role of vitamin D in Covid-19 with low vitamin D being associated with BAME medical staff and deaths. Unofficial advice to supplement with vitamin D among BAME doctors appears to have had a profound impact on death rates.

Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

Still there are difficulties for those who are unable to tolerate vitamin D supplementation.

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

that is their problem brian ....just take Stexerol-d3 like I do on
prescription ....


Costing the taxpayer a small fortune when you could buy the same thing over
the counter for a few pounds. No wonder people cant get essential drugs
when there are people getting things they should be buying themselves.

polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 23:56:28 UTC, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

Vegans tend to have lower cholesterol. Cholesterol is required to make
vitamin D in our skin.

(My own cholesterol is very low - despite not being a vegetarian, let
alone a vegan. And consuming significant quantities of butter, cheese and
other fats. I take a vitamin D3 supplement.)

There has been a lot of discussion recently about the role of vitamin D
in Covid-19 with low vitamin D being associated with BAME medical staff
and deaths. Unofficial advice to supplement with vitamin D among BAME
doctors appears to have had a profound impact on death rates.

Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

Still there are difficulties for those who are unable to tolerate vitamin D
supplementation.


There was a comment made during one the coverage of the higher incidence of
the virus in parts of Europe and the BAME community that both had lower
vitamin D and some of the BAME community had a naturally high cholesterol
level.

Not all vegetarian animals have big bones it is more related to animal
size. A rabbit has small bones.

On 25/11/2020 10:37, Radio Man wrote:
polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 23:56:28 UTC, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

Vegans tend to have lower cholesterol. Cholesterol is required to make
vitamin D in our skin.

(My own cholesterol is very low - despite not being a vegetarian, let
alone a vegan. And consuming significant quantities of butter, cheese and
other fats. I take a vitamin D3 supplement.)

There has been a lot of discussion recently about the role of vitamin D
in Covid-19 with low vitamin D being associated with BAME medical staff
and deaths. Unofficial advice to supplement with vitamin D among BAME
doctors appears to have had a profound impact on death rates.

Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

Still there are difficulties for those who are unable to tolerate vitamin D
supplementation.


There was a comment made during one the coverage of the higher incidence of
the virus in parts of Europe and the BAME community that both had lower
vitamin D and some of the BAME community had a naturally high cholesterol
level.

Not all vegetarian animals have big bones it is more related to animal
size. A rabbit has small bones.

It's the famed area/volume ratio: responsible for elephants having
massive limbs, flying animals being relatively small and the critical
mass needed for an atom bomb to explode.

--
Max Demian

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:56:24 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Please mark such posts at OT:

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

snip

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.

Ok, so it's not all people on a vegan diet, it's supposedly worse for
women, so I wonder if the actual risk was for some other reason ...

snip

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

Hmm, so vegans have a lower BMI so the chances are they would be at a
reduced risk of other life threatening diseases associated with that,
like heart disease and stroke.

snip

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall,

So assuming you haven't already dies from some high BMI related issue,
you might not bounce as well if you are slimmer and fall?

enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Or regular exercise, like walking.


"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

Stop the press. Veganisim isn't a cure all but has other health
benefits to humans and massive health benefits to trillions of animals
and therefore us, via pollution resource usage.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

Bingo.

snip

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

Bingo.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.

Doh!

"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans,

So, vegans not on a balanced diet ... like anyone not on a balanced
diet ...

lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle...racture-risk/?

https://veganhealth.org/calcium-part-2/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...rengthen-bones

And hey, keep sucking up the marketing ...

https://youtu.be/FM95_k9onEc

https://thebeet.com/uk-government-un...-alternatives/

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:56:24 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Please mark such posts at OT:

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

snip

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.

Ok, so it's not all people on a vegan diet, it's supposedly worse for
women, so I wonder if the actual risk was for some other reason ...

snip

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

Hmm, so vegans have a lower BMI so the chances are they would be at a
reduced risk of other life threatening diseases associated with that,
like heart disease and stroke.

snip

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall,

So assuming you haven't already dies from some high BMI related issue,
you might not bounce as well if you are slimmer and fall?

enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Or regular exercise, like walking.


"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

Stop the press. Veganisim isn't a cure all but has other health
benefits to humans and massive health benefits to trillions of animals
and therefore us, via pollution resource usage.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

Bingo.

snip

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

Bingo.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.

Doh!

"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans,

So, vegans not on a balanced diet ... like anyone not on a balanced
diet ...

lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle...racture-risk/?

https://veganhealth.org/calcium-part-2/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...rengthen-bones

And hey, keep sucking up the marketing ...

https://youtu.be/FM95_k9onEc

https://thebeet.com/uk-government-un...-alternatives/

Cheers, T i m


The report is clear enough even if you refuse to accept it.

Max Demian wrote:
On 25/11/2020 10:37, Radio Man wrote:
polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 23:56:28 UTC, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

Vegans tend to have lower cholesterol. Cholesterol is required to make
vitamin D in our skin.

(My own cholesterol is very low - despite not being a vegetarian, let
alone a vegan. And consuming significant quantities of butter, cheese and
other fats. I take a vitamin D3 supplement.)

There has been a lot of discussion recently about the role of vitamin D
in Covid-19 with low vitamin D being associated with BAME medical staff
and deaths. Unofficial advice to supplement with vitamin D among BAME
doctors appears to have had a profound impact on death rates.

Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

Still there are difficulties for those who are unable to tolerate vitamin D
supplementation.


There was a comment made during one the coverage of the higher incidence of
the virus in parts of Europe and the BAME community that both had lower
vitamin D and some of the BAME community had a naturally high cholesterol
level.

Not all vegetarian animals have big bones it is more related to animal
size. A rabbit has small bones.

It's the famed area/volume ratio: responsible for elephants having
massive limbs, flying animals being relatively small and the critical
mass needed for an atom bomb to explode.


Of course it is vegans just cant accept their diet is fundamentally
unhealthy.

On 25/11/2020 10:51, T i m wrote:
Radio Man wrote:

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle...racture-risk/?

https://veganhealth.org/calcium-part-2/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...rengthen-bones

And hey, keep sucking up the marketing ...

https://youtu.be/FM95_k9onEc

https://thebeet.com/uk-government-un...-alternatives/

So, you're putting up You Tube and some biassed vegan sites to answer a
peer-reviewed scientific study by lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford
University nutritional
epidemiologist.

Good luck with that, keep sucking your comforter.

--
Spike

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:47:33 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Spike
writes
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.

I suspect that T i m has filed this in the 'Don't Want To Know' folder.

You must realise that *self sacrifice* is a requirement of most
religions.

What has that got to do with the lifestyle choice of vegans ...

https://preview.tinyurl.com/w6z6439

or anyone who doesn't want to support the suffering and exploitation
of animals?

https://ibb.co/k8S5x7y

https://ibb.co/VtzBBSx

https://ibb.co/Pw98W2T

Disbelief is simply a mark of ignorance requiring even more
proselytizing:-(

Along with indoctrination / tradition:

https://ibb.co/MZDVc77

https://ibb.co/4N8j2M1

https://ibb.co/87pYK5S

https://ibb.co/74QMVVN

https://ibb.co/P9xLCM2

https://ibb.co/2ZfwFSY

Enjoy! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:43 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

The report is clear enough even if you refuse to accept it.

Bwhahaha .... talk about confirmation bias Brain!

You choose to *believe* that because it's helps ease your guilt and
allows you to carry on causing the suffering and exploitation of
animals and in spite of the results being anything other than 'clear'.

The report is clear enough for you, because you only care about you,
as is a common trait of left brainers.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Of course

'Of course' ... I love how the left brainers use emotive and binary
words to describe things are that are far from black and white (other
than in their heads) or even fact.

it is vegans just can’t accept their diet is fundamentally
unhealthy.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/w6z6439

"One of the UK’s longest-standing organisations that represents
dietetics and nutrition, the British Dietetic Association, has
affirmed that a well-planned vegan diet can “support healthy living in
people of all ages” in an official document signed by its CEO.

The British Dietetic Association (BDA), founded in 1936, is the
professional association and trade union for dietitians in Great
Britain and Northern Ireland. It is the nation’s largest organisation
of food and nutrition professionals with over 9,000 members."

But hey, I'm humbled you are concerned about my health whist
apparently not being bothered about yours or the welfare of trillions
of other animals.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:47:33 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

Hey Tim, I thought the idea of including Vegan in any header was that
then you didn't have to read / respond to it?

Or do we have to refine that for you so it reads 'Pro or Anti-vegan
(where you will read and reply to anything anti-vegan)?

https://ibb.co/VDR6Mny

You know you can get microwavable vegan meals so you wouldn't starve
to death when 'catering' goes away and you run out of that
oh-so-nutritious powdered soup. ;-)

https://ibb.co/995p2sR

Cheers, T i m

On 25/11/2020 11:16, T i m wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Spike writes
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.

I suspect that T i m has filed this in the 'Don't Want To Know' folder.

You must realise that *self sacrifice* is a requirement of most
religions.

What has that got to do with the lifestyle choice of vegans ...

https://preview.tinyurl.com/w6z6439

or anyone who doesn't want to support the suffering and exploitation
of animals?

https://ibb.co/k8S5x7y
https://ibb.co/VtzBBSx
https://ibb.co/Pw98W2T
https://ibb.co/MZDVc77
https://ibb.co/4N8j2M1
https://ibb.co/87pYK5S
https://ibb.co/74QMVVN
https://ibb.co/P9xLCM2
https://ibb.co/2ZfwFSY
Enjoy! ;-)

Bwhahaha .... talk about confirmation bias!

You choose to *believe* that because it's helps ease your guilt.

--
Spike

On 25/11/2020 11:27, T i m wrote:

"One of the UK�s longest-standing organisations that represents
dietetics and nutrition, the British Dietetic Association, has
affirmed that a well-planned vegan diet can �support healthy living in
people of all ages� in an official document signed by its CEO.

But hey, I'm humbled you are concerned about my health whist
apparently not being bothered about yours or the welfare of trillions
of other animals.

You need to explain how the British Dietetic Association's CEO'
signature on some publicity blurb trump a peer-reviewed scientific paper
by Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional epidemiologist.


--
Spike

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Of course

'Of course' ... I love how the left brainers use emotive and binary
words to describe things are that are far from black and white (other
than in their heads) or even fact.

it is vegans just can't accept their diet is fundamentally
unhealthy.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/w6z6439

"One of the UK's longest-standing organisations that represents
dietetics and nutrition, the British Dietetic Association, has
affirmed that a well-planned vegan diet can "support healthy living in
people of all ages" in an official document signed by its CEO.

The article doesn't say explicitly whether a vegan diet *with no
vitamin/mineral supplements* can supply the calcium that vegetarians and
carnivores would get from milk. What vegan foods contain calcium for keeping
bones strong? Is calcium added to plant-based (eg soya) "milk"?

On 25/11/2020 10:17, Radio Man wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds
By
Mason Boycott-Owen
23 November 2020 €¢ 6:01am

Vegans are 40 per cent more likely to suffer from a bone fracture due to a
lack of calcium and protein than meat eaters, a Oxford University study has
found.

The study of more than 50,000 British people tracked over two decades found
that giving up meat can weaken bones and even trigger osteoporosis.

Researchers found that people with lower calcium and protein intakes who
had vegan diets were more prone to hip, leg and spinal fractures.

They also found that vegans were 43 per cent more likely to suffer a
fracture anywhere - particularly in the leg, vertebrae and collarbone.

Study lead author Dr Tammy Tong, an Oxford University nutritional
epidemiologist, said: "The biggest differences were for hip fractures,
where the risk in vegans was 2.3 times higher than in people who ate meat -
equivalent to 15 more cases per 1,000 people over 10 years."

It is the most common serious injury in older people. There are more than
76,000 cases a year, costing the NHS £1 billion annually.

Women are most vulnerable because their bones naturally lose strength after
the menopause as levels of oestrogen drop.



Dr Tong said: "We found vegans had a higher risk of total fractures which
resulted in close to 20 more cases per 1000 people over a 10-year period
compared to people who ate meat."

Participants' diets were assessed initially, and then again in 2010. They
were followed up until 2016, for 18 years on average, for the occurrence of
fractures.

Fracture risk was partly reduced once BMI (body mass index) and dietary
calcium and protein consumption had been taken into account.

Dr Tong explained: "Vegetarians and vegans generally have lower BMI than
meat eaters.

"This is associated with a higher risk of hip fractures, and low intakes of
calcium and protein have both been linked to poorer bone health."

Possible explanations include the cushioning against impact force during a
fall, enhanced oestrogen production with increased adiposity or stronger
bones from greater weight-bearing.

Dr Tong said: "This study showed vegans, who on average had lower BMI as
well as lower intakes of calcium and protein than meat eaters, had higher
risks of fractures at several sites.



"Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can result in improved
nutrient levels and have been linked to lower risks of diseases including
heart disease and diabetes.

"Individuals should take into account the benefits and risks of their diet,
and ensure they have adequate levels of calcium and protein and also
maintain a healthy BMI, that is, neither under nor overweight."

The study looked at participants recruited between 1993 and 2001, with
29,400 meat eaters, 17,500 vegetarians and vegans, and 8,000 pescatarians.

During the study a total of 3,941 fractures occurred, including almost
1,000 hip fractures as well as those to the wrist, arm, leg and ankle.

The authors found no significant difference in risk between groups for arm,
wrist and ankle fractures once BMI was taken into account.

Dr Tong added: "Fractures in adulthood and older ages are a common
occurrence which pose a significant burden to health systems worldwide.

"Previous epidemiological studies have shown that vegetarians had lower
bone mineral density than non-vegetarians, but the associations of
vegetarian diets with fracture risks are unclear.


"Potential risk differences are plausible however,owing to differences in
several dietary factors, such as the substantially lower intakes of calcium
in vegans, lower intakes of dietary protein in both vegetarians and vegans,
and the lower BMI of non-meat eaters."

that is their problem brian ....just take Stexerol-d3 like I do on
prescription ....


Costing the taxpayer a small fortune when you could buy the same thing over
the counter for a few pounds. No wonder people cant get essential drugs
when there are people getting things they should be buying themselves.

you forgot my dispersible aspirin as well.....tee hee

On 25/11/2020 10:17, Radio Man wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
snip

that is their problem brian ....just take Stexerol-d3 like I do on
prescription ....


Costing the taxpayer a small fortune when you could buy the same thing over
the counter for a few pounds. No wonder people cant get essential drugs
when there are people getting things they should be buying themselves.

+1000

Ditto aspirins 'on prescription'

On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds

When I read the subject line I came up with a different assumption.

On 25/11/2020 10:01, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

They have four stomachs though, and have you seen what happens
when a lactating cow gets short of magnesium ?. It's called
staggers.
Highland coows seem to be particularly able to live outside
all year round, even in the north of frigid-land and survive
on a rubbishy diet, so bovines in general must be genetically
resistant to osteo-porosis. This could of course be down to
the fact that they tend not live to 90+, unlike other big
mammals like elephants. :-)

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:58:28 -0000, "NY" wrote:

snip

The article doesn't say explicitly whether a vegan diet *with no
vitamin/mineral supplements* can supply the calcium that vegetarians and
carnivores would get from milk.

A link on there did though:

https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/plant-based-diet.html

"Calcium

Calcium is essential for bone health, along with weight bearing
exercise and a healthy diet. An adult requires approximately 700mg per
day. Dairy foods are rich in calcium but if you are not eating these
make sure you obtain calcium from other sources like fortified plant
based dairy alternatives, dried fruit e.g. figs, nuts such as almonds,
leafy green vegetables, red kidney beans, sesame seeds, tahini and
tofu to lower your risk of bone fractures."

What vegan foods contain calcium for keeping
bones strong?

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...s#1.-Soy-Foods

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/

"Good sources of calcium for vegans include:

green, leafy vegetables – such as broccoli, cabbage and okra, but
not spinach
fortified unsweetened soya, rice and oat drinks
calcium-set tofu
sesame seeds and tahini
pulses
brown and white bread (in the UK, calcium is added to white and
brown flour by law)
dried fruit, such as raisins, prunes, figs and dried apricots"

Is calcium added to plant-based (eg soya) "milk"?

Typically, yes.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/plant-based-diet.html

"Calcium

Calcium is essential for bone health, along with weight bearing
exercise and a healthy diet. An adult requires approximately 700mg per
day. Dairy foods are rich in calcium but if you are not eating these
make sure you obtain calcium from other sources like fortified plant
based dairy alternatives, dried fruit e.g. figs, nuts such as almonds,
leafy green vegetables, red kidney beans, sesame seeds, tahini and
tofu to lower your risk of bone fractures."

What vegan foods contain calcium for keeping
bones strong?

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...s#1.-Soy-Foods

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/

"Good sources of calcium for vegans include:

green, leafy vegetables - such as broccoli, cabbage and okra, but
not spinach
fortified unsweetened soya, rice and oat drinks
calcium-set tofu
sesame seeds and tahini
pulses
brown and white bread (in the UK, calcium is added to white and
brown flour by law)
dried fruit, such as raisins, prunes, figs and dried apricots"

Is calcium added to plant-based (eg soya) "milk"?

Typically, yes

Given that calcium is added to bread and plant-milk, and is naturally in
broccoli and cabbage, and in sesame seeds and pulses, I wonder why vegans
are reported to have more bone fractures. It sounds as if some vegans have
very restricted diets if they suffer more fractures which *presumably* are
caused by a lack of sufficient calcium in the diet.

Of course, not everyone likes green leaf/stalk veg such as broccoli and
cabbage - I loathe all green veg except for celery which I love (but it's
the only veg that my wife hates) and have to force myself to eat it because
it is good for me and it's socially acceptable, rather than because it is in
any way tolerable or pleasurable.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:19:14 +0000, R D S wrote:

On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds

When I read the subject line I came up with a different assumption.

https://ibb.co/FHbhDPr

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:46:57 -0000, "NY" wrote:

snip

Given that calcium is added to bread and plant-milk, and is naturally in
broccoli and cabbage, and in sesame seeds and pulses,

.... and loads more ...

I wonder why vegans
are reported to have more bone fractures.

That's the thing, most of these 'studies' are later proven to be
flawed.

It sounds as if some vegans have
very restricted diets

We *know* that many people (inc non-vegans) have very restricted
diets, and bad diets in general but no one seems to be bothered about
those?

if they suffer more fractures which *presumably* are
caused by a lack of sufficient calcium in the diet.

Nope, the are caused (the article suggests) by less fat cushioning the
fall, a fact that is likely to be a bigger problem to the peoples
health than a fractured hip.

Of course, not everyone likes green leaf/stalk veg such as broccoli and
cabbage - I loathe all green veg except for celery which I love (but it's
the only veg that my wife hates)

The thing is, it's not always about what you like or don't, it's doing
what's best for you and 'us'.

and have to force myself to eat it because
it is good for me

Quite, and remember we make many foods, especially meats taste better
by processing them or adding vegetation (herbs) to them. ;-)

and it's socially acceptable,

IDGAF about that. ;-)

rather than because it is in
any way tolerable or pleasurable.

Like wearing a seat belt, safety helmet / goggles / mask, taking
exercise or not taking risks?

It's all down to mindset.

I aim to reduce the suffering and exploitation of animals, when and
wherever possible.

I eat a variety of food that fits in with the above.

The end. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 10:01, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

They have four stomachs though, and have you seen what happens
when a lactating cow gets short of magnesium ?. It's called
staggers.
Highland coows seem to be particularly able to live outside
all year round, even in the north of frigid-land and survive
on a rubbishy diet, so bovines in general must be genetically
resistant to osteo-porosis. This could of course be down to
the fact that they tend not live to 90+, unlike other big
mammals like elephants. :-)

Quite, if they didn't get a bolt gun to the head (if they are
'lucky'(?)) and their throats cut when they are 1/25 of their natural
lives.

Cheers, T i m

On 25/11/2020 13:11, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 10:01, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

They have four stomachs though, and have you seen what happens
when a lactating cow gets short of magnesium ?. It's called
staggers.
Highland coows seem to be particularly able to live outside
all year round, even in the north of frigid-land and survive
on a rubbishy diet, so bovines in general must be genetically
resistant to osteo-porosis. This could of course be down to
the fact that they tend not live to 90+, unlike other big
mammals like elephants. :-)

Quite, if they didn't get a bolt gun to the head (if they are
'lucky'(?)) and their throats cut when they are 1/25 of their natural
lives.

Cheers, T i m


Or in the wild, have their entrails ripped out from the rear
by packs of wolves, hyenas, wild dogs etc

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:14:53 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 13:11, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 10:01, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

They have four stomachs though, and have you seen what happens
when a lactating cow gets short of magnesium ?. It's called
staggers.
Highland coows seem to be particularly able to live outside
all year round, even in the north of frigid-land and survive
on a rubbishy diet, so bovines in general must be genetically
resistant to osteo-porosis. This could of course be down to
the fact that they tend not live to 90+, unlike other big
mammals like elephants. :-)

Quite, if they didn't get a bolt gun to the head (if they are
'lucky'(?)) and their throats cut when they are 1/25 of their natural
lives.


Or in the wild, have their entrails ripped out from the rear
by packs of wolves, hyenas, wild dogs etc

Yup, as is quite right by nature.

And if it wasn't, they would either overpopulate a given area and die
out from starvation or become over predated and die out ... except for
millions of years that didn't happen (or happen that much). And there
was a good reason for that ...

Cheers, T i m

On 25/11/2020 11:58, NY wrote:

The article doesn't say explicitly whether a vegan diet *with no
vitamin/mineral supplements* can supply the calcium that vegetarians and
carnivores would get from milk. What vegan foods contain calcium for keeping
bones strong? Is calcium added to plant-based (eg soya) "milk"?

Stand by for T i m ' s long list of fortified foods and dietary
supplements that make the vegan diet a perfectly natural and healthy one.

--
Spike

On 25/11/2020 13:09, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:46:57 -0000, "NY" wrote:

I wonder why vegans are reported to have more bone fractures.

That's the thing, most of these 'studies' are later proven to be flawed.

ROFL

Cite a handful, then.

--
Spike

On 25/11/2020 14:22, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:14:53 +0000, Andrew wrote:

Or in the wild, have their entrails ripped out from the rear
by packs of wolves, hyenas, wild dogs etc

Yup, as is quite right by nature.

You make it seem like management by man is better all round for animals,
and as we're at the top of the food chain...why let them go to waste?

And if it wasn't, they would either overpopulate a given area and die
out from starvation or become over predated and die out ... except for
millions of years that didn't happen (or happen that much).
Source?

And there was a good reason for that ...

....you were making it up.


--
Spike

On 25/11/2020 14:34, Spike wrote:
On 25/11/2020 11:58, NY wrote:

The article doesn't say explicitly whether a vegan diet *with no
vitamin/mineral supplements* can supply the calcium that vegetarians and
carnivores would get from milk. What vegan foods contain calcium for keeping
bones strong? Is calcium added to plant-based (eg soya) "milk"?

Stand by for T i m ' s long list of fortified foods and dietary
supplements that make the vegan diet a perfectly natural and healthy one.

Do vegans suffer from iodine deficiency in parts of the country where
it's absent from drinking water, as most people get it from milk as the
cows are fed it?

--
Max Demian

On 25/11/2020 11:27:15, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Of course

'Of course' ... I love how the left brainers

Ah, the resort to abuse. The classic way to end a lost argument.

It didn't take long.

On 25/11/2020 14:22:29, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:14:53 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 13:11, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 25/11/2020 10:01, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Remember: Cows have massive bones and are vegetarian.

They have four stomachs though, and have you seen what happens
when a lactating cow gets short of magnesium ?. It's called
staggers.
Highland coows seem to be particularly able to live outside
all year round, even in the north of frigid-land and survive
on a rubbishy diet, so bovines in general must be genetically
resistant to osteo-porosis. This could of course be down to
the fact that they tend not live to 90+, unlike other big
mammals like elephants. :-)

Quite, if they didn't get a bolt gun to the head (if they are
'lucky'(?)) and their throats cut when they are 1/25 of their natural
lives.


Or in the wild, have their entrails ripped out from the rear
by packs of wolves, hyenas, wild dogs etc

Yup, as is quite right by nature.

And we are natural beings, following a wholesome natural diet. If you
cut out an important part of the diet, such as meat and animal products
it can only be detrimental to our bodies and our state of mind. B12
deficiencies are a good case for eating meat.

On 25/11/2020 11:21:48, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:43 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

The report is clear enough even if you refuse to accept it.

Bwhahaha .... talk about confirmation bias Brain!

Do you deny the outcome of the study?

You choose to *believe* that because it's helps ease your guilt

There is no guilt in following a wholesome natural diet. What I do see
is jealousy our loved ones allow us to eat meat.

On 25/11/2020 12:19:14, R D S wrote:
On 24/11/2020 23:56, Radio Man wrote:
Â*From The Telegraph

Vegans 40pc more likely to suffer from fractures from lack of calcium,
Oxford study finds

When I read the subject line I came up with a different assumption.

The body is a complex organism. Who knows why calcium absorption is
enhanced by eating meat and meat products.

Sometime it is useful to compare with vegetarians as they often show
less of the failing traits shown by vegans in these studies.

On 25/11/2020 11:27, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Of course

'Of course' ... I love how the left brainers use emotive and binary
words to describe things are that are far from black and white (other
than in their heads) or even fact.

Maybe meat eaters have a better developed corpus callosum so the concept
of left- and right- brainers is meaningless.

--
Max Demian

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:52:11 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

snip

'Of course' ... I love how the left brainers use emotive and binary
words to describe things are that are far from black and white (other
than in their heads) or even fact.

Maybe meat eaters have a better developed corpus callosum so the concept
of left- and right- brainers is meaningless.

If they had they would have a more balanced view on 'life' and realise
that what they are doing isn't 'right'.

And no-one in their right mind would accept that the pain and
suffering we inflict on trillions of animals every year is either
right or (therefore) justified.

https://ibb.co/N3qmRbN

As will be (is being) proven and sooner than some realise.

It's doesn't take much for good people who hadn't realised what they
were doing to make simple changes to the benefit of many (including
themselves, physically and morally).

It's all down to education of those with minds open and unselfish
enough to be educated.

Cheers, T i m