Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.



They cannot override your statutory rights. However, any retailer that
thinks they can is definitely not worth dealing with. Just cancel the order.

On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.

You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy
and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would
like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite
understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance
selling regulations as you have changed your mind.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs
beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is
sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new
one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.

You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy
and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would
like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite
understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance
selling regulations as you have changed your mind.





Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced
the Distance Selling Regulations.

But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a
business-to-business.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:23:47 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs
beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is
sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new
one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.

You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy
and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would
like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite
understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance
selling regulations as you have changed your mind.


Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced
the Distance Selling Regulations.

But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a
business-to-business.

It is to consumer, inasmuch as anyone can order from there. Initial prices
are ex-VAT though, so it might be a get-out. No account neede, so not trade
to me.
https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

It sounds like they have had issues with that famous firm of bodgit and Run
to me.
Still, you may be right, as if it arrives faulty, you should be able to
return it if the fault is such that it was not anything one could have done.
I had one arrive with blades that touched one side once. This was the old
metal design, suspect it had suffered mechanical impact at some time, but
this was a well known UK company and I had no issues, it was to keep the
garage cool in the summer.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"PeterC" wrote in message
...
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one
and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 16 Oct 2020 at 09:40:52 BST, "PeterC"
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:23:47 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs
beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is
sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new
one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.

You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy
and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would
like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite
understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance
selling regulations as you have changed your mind.


Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced
the Distance Selling Regulations.

But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a
business-to-business.

It is to consumer, inasmuch as anyone can order from there. Initial prices
are ex-VAT though, so it might be a get-out. No account neede, so not trade
to me.
https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/

If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond
just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to
establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are
subject to consumer law.

--
Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:

PeterC wrote:

https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/

If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond
just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to
establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are
subject to consumer law.

"We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both
trade and end user customers."

On 16 Oct 2020 at 12:35:51 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

PeterC wrote:

https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/

If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond
just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to
establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are
subject to consumer law.

"We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both
trade and end user customers."

In which case they are obliged to at least give the option of the prices being
presented VAT inclusive.

--
Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

"We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both
trade and end user customers."

In which case they are obliged to at least give the option of the prices being
presented VAT inclusive.

They do show VAT inclusive prices, extractorfanworld is just a trading
name for Gil-Lec Ltd, whose T&C don't try to insist on professional
installation for returns (but whose main website is £5 more expensive
for the same fan).

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power
Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about
"low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items
All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not
installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We
cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless
it has been installed by a fully qualified professional
electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and
the integrity of the electrical system into which it was
installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse
board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full
contact details of the installing electrician at the point
of return, including the trade body to which they are
registered and their registration number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty
item without this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand)
but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer
laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD,
MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by
the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes
sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and
keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal
sulking or whatever.

https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/...item-101-c.asp
doesn't mention this and as you say it is buried in their T'c & C's.
If you simply want to cancel and are within 14 days or receipt of the
goods the " Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and
Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 S32" is the bit you need.

If it's any help extractorfanworld appears to be a trading name of
part of Gil-Lec Ltd, an electrical wholesaler with shops in Hemel
Hempstead and Chesham. I've used them a few times over the years (not
for fans) and always found them to be more knowledgeable and helpful
than most wholesalers.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC wrote:

Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low
energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if
not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot
accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed
by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's
five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity
of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit
protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the
installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact
details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including
the trade body to which they are registered and their registration
number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without
this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs
beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it
breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the
existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the
supply (it's not operated by the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is
sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit
a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic
smoke/terminal sulking or whatever.

Posted in uk.legal.moderated but I see some of the usual suspects are on
here as well.

I would have thought that the above were unreasonable conditions and hence
not enforceable.

Cheers


Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 16 Oct 2020 12:37:10 GMT, David wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC wrote:

Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer
(Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low
energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!).
After placing the order the confirmation page had:
"Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if
not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot
accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed
by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's
five trade bodies:
NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB.

In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity
of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit
protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the
installing electrician.
For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact
details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including
the trade body to which they are registered and their registration
number.

We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without
this information."

I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs
beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it
breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the
existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the
supply (it's not operated by the light switch).
The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is
sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit
a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic
smoke/terminal sulking or whatever.

Posted in uk.legal.moderated but I see some of the usual suspects are on
here as well.

I would have thought that the above were unreasonable conditions and hence
not enforceable.

Cheers

Dave R

Especially as they appear /after/ placing the order.
Yes, Gil-Lec appeared on the invoice and I didn't know about that.

It's not a straightforward swap - it has to go from surface entry at the top
to rear entry on the LH side, so I'll have to dig into the wall - can't see
any other way of doing it.
I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very
easily and won't clatter in the wind. I might prop open the vanes outside as
there's a large cowl to protect the outlet.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 17/10/2020 15:17, PeterC wrote:

I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very
easily and won't clatter in the wind.

If they're anything like the ones on my Ventaxia bathroom fan they WILL
clatter.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:04:26 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote:

On 17/10/2020 15:17, PeterC wrote:

I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very
easily and won't clatter in the wind.

If they're anything like the ones on my Ventaxia bathroom fan they WILL
clatter.

The present vanes are the typical louvres of plastic and on the outside of
the duct. Those on the new fan probably have less material than ¼ of one of
the present ones and not sufficiently rigid to clatter as loudly; they're
also at the rear of the fan.
I'll prop open the outside ones (might be able to do it from inside) just as
a matter of interest - disadvantage is that insects can get into the duct.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway