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Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
Just placed an order for:
ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. They cannot override your statutory rights. However, any retailer that thinks they can is definitely not worth dealing with. Just cancel the order. |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance selling regulations as you have changed your mind. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote: Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance selling regulations as you have changed your mind. Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations. But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a business-to-business. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:23:47 +0100, Robin wrote:
On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote: On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote: Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance selling regulations as you have changed your mind. Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations. But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a business-to-business. It is to consumer, inasmuch as anyone can order from there. Initial prices are ex-VAT though, so it might be a get-out. No account neede, so not trade to me. https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/ -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 16 Oct 2020 at 09:40:52 BST, "PeterC"
wrote: On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:23:47 +0100, Robin wrote: On 15/10/2020 17:11, John Rumm wrote: On 15/10/2020 15:34, PeterC wrote: Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. You could contact them, and say you just noticed their returns policy and highlight that since you will be installing it yourself you would like them to waive this restriction, and if they can't, you quite understand, but will therefore cancel the order under the distance selling regulations as you have changed your mind. Better to cite the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations. But it does depend on it being a business-to-consumer sale rather than a business-to-business. It is to consumer, inasmuch as anyone can order from there. Initial prices are ex-VAT though, so it might be a get-out. No account neede, so not trade to me. https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/ If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are subject to consumer law. -- Roger Hayter |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
Roger Hayter wrote:
PeterC wrote: https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/ If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are subject to consumer law. "We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both trade and end user customers." |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 16 Oct 2020 at 12:35:51 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote: PeterC wrote: https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/ If you're a consumer and the firm has not taken considerable pains (beyond just saying "We only deal with business buyers" and not enforcing it) to establish that you are a business or credibly claim to be one, then they are subject to consumer law. "We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both trade and end user customers." In which case they are obliged to at least give the option of the prices being presented VAT inclusive. -- Roger Hayter |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
Roger Hayter wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: "We have over 21 years experience in supplying extractor fans to both trade and end user customers." In which case they are obliged to at least give the option of the prices being presented VAT inclusive. They do show VAT inclusive prices, extractorfanworld is just a trading name for Gil-Lec Ltd, whose T&C don't try to insist on professional installation for returns (but whose main website is £5 more expensive for the same fan). |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC
wrote: Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/...item-101-c.asp doesn't mention this and as you say it is buried in their T'c & C's. If you simply want to cancel and are within 14 days or receipt of the goods the " Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 S32" is the bit you need. If it's any help extractorfanworld appears to be a trading name of part of Gil-Lec Ltd, an electrical wholesaler with shops in Hemel Hempstead and Chesham. I've used them a few times over the years (not for fans) and always found them to be more knowledgeable and helpful than most wholesalers. |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC wrote:
Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. Posted in uk.legal.moderated but I see some of the usual suspects are on here as well. I would have thought that the above were unreasonable conditions and hence not enforceable. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 16 Oct 2020 12:37:10 GMT, David wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:34:56 +0100, PeterC wrote: Just placed an order for: ST100HT Silent Tornado Hi-Power Bathroom Fan with Humidistat & Timer (Love the way it claims high power (not wanted) then boasts about "low energy" of 7.5W - not bad for an electrical business!). After placing the order the confirmation page had: "Faulty Items All warranties for all electrical items are invalidated if not installed by a fully qualified professional electrician. We cannot accept the return of any item deemed faulty unless it has been installed by a fully qualified professional electrician registered to one the UK's five trade bodies: NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA, JIB. In order to verify the proper installation of the item and the integrity of the electrical system into which it was installed, including circuit protection devices and fuse board, we may need to speak to the installing electrician. For this reason we require that the customer provides full contact details of the installing electrician at the point of return, including the trade body to which they are registered and their registration number. We cannot process any refund or replacement for a faulty item without this information." I wouldn't have bought had I known (i.e. thought to read Ts&Cs beforehand) but I do consider it to be unreasonable. I wonder if it breaches Consumer laws. I'm more than capable of fitting a fan; the existing one is on RCD, MCB (lighting circuit) and has a SFCU in the supply (it's not operated by the light switch). The only reason for getting a new one is that the present one is sometimes sounding a bit 'strange', nothing serious but I decided to fit a new one and keep the old one as a spare. Better than waiting for magic smoke/terminal sulking or whatever. Posted in uk.legal.moderated but I see some of the usual suspects are on here as well. I would have thought that the above were unreasonable conditions and hence not enforceable. Cheers Dave R Especially as they appear /after/ placing the order. Yes, Gil-Lec appeared on the invoice and I didn't know about that. It's not a straightforward swap - it has to go from surface entry at the top to rear entry on the LH side, so I'll have to dig into the wall - can't see any other way of doing it. I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very easily and won't clatter in the wind. I might prop open the vanes outside as there's a large cowl to protect the outlet. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On 17/10/2020 15:17, PeterC wrote:
I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very easily and won't clatter in the wind. If they're anything like the ones on my Ventaxia bathroom fan they WILL clatter. |
Extractor fan - legal terms for returns?
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:04:26 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 17/10/2020 15:17, PeterC wrote: I do like the backdraught shutter - just 2 pieces of plastic that open very easily and won't clatter in the wind. If they're anything like the ones on my Ventaxia bathroom fan they WILL clatter. The present vanes are the typical louvres of plastic and on the outside of the duct. Those on the new fan probably have less material than ¼ of one of the present ones and not sufficiently rigid to clatter as loudly; they're also at the rear of the fan. I'll prop open the outside ones (might be able to do it from inside) just as a matter of interest - disadvantage is that insects can get into the duct. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
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