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Old July 26th 20, 01:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article ,
Another John wrote:
Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter - just
shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


So I did. The Panda hasn't complained yet. (It does about 4000m per
year btw).


I very much doubt using the wrong oil would ever have immediate
consequences. But might well cause premature engine wear.

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a worn
cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and increase
fuel usage.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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Old July 26th 20, 04:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.


Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.
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Old July 27th 20, 01:24 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.


Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


NT
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Old July 27th 20, 07:38 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:48:44 +0100, Another John wrote:

Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter - just
shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


ISTR: there was once a time where the different additives in engine oils could
be incompatible, and cause it to gel or thicken. Along came the military, and
mandated that all oils be mixable without (drastic) downsides.

(I tried to find my source, but google groups seem more broken than usual,
returning 0 hits for "motor oil mix"...)


Thomas Prufer


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Old July 27th 20, 07:52 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


Not many, but the new C8 Corvette uses pushrods.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls


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Old July 27th 20, 10:06 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

Thomas Prufer wrote in
:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:48:44 +0100, Another John
wrote:

Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter -
just shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


ISTR: there was once a time where the different additives in engine
oils could be incompatible, and cause it to gel or thicken. Along came
the military, and mandated that all oils be mixable without (drastic)
downsides.

(I tried to find my source, but google groups seem more broken than
usual, returning 0 hits for "motor oil mix"...)


Thomas Prufer




Seeing lots of stickers used to be something I looked for when buying a
used car. It implied it had been serviced. Free advert for the oil
company as well.
  #27   Report Post  
Old July 27th 20, 12:21 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 26/07/2020 14:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:31:11 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.

Probably filtered sump oil.

You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although
it can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to
heat the workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.


Well the darkening is (mainly) soot from the combustion bypassing the
rings, so I am guessing they've improved the tolerances ?

More likely I think improvements in combustion technology from a
combination of injection, sensors, and ECUs, leading to much less soot.
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Old July 27th 20, 12:29 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 27/07/2020 12:21, newshound wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:31:11 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
**** Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.

Probably filtered sump oil.

You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although
it can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to
heat the workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.


Well the darkening is (mainly) soot from the combustion bypassing the
rings, so I am guessing they've improved the tolerances ?

More likely I think improvements in combustion technology from a
combination of injection, sensors, and ECUs, leading to much less soot.


The soot was as much as anything oil exposed to high temperature blowby
gases.

The fact of the matter is that materials have come on hugely. A 1960s
BMC A or B engine needed new big end shells at 30,000 and mains at
60,000 or a complete rebuild with rebore and new pistons at 90,000.

Most modern engines are 120-180k before there is *any* noticeable wear.

Metals are harder, oils are better and machining is to far tighter
tolerances.

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal
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Old July 27th 20, 01:27 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
The fact of the matter is that materials have come on hugely. A 1960s BMC
A or B engine needed new big end shells at 30,000 and mains at 60,000 or a
complete rebuild with rebore and new pistons at 90,000.

Most modern engines are 120-180k before there is *any* noticeable wear.

Metals are harder, oils are better and machining is to far tighter
tolerances.


My 2008 Peugeot has done 180,000 and it's still on its original clutch (*),
exhaust system and shock absorbers. The timing belt was replaced at about
100,000 miles - not because it was worn but because this was the mileage
stated by the manufacturer, and a broken belt would cause a valve/piston
collision and hence major engine repair. The water pump was replaced at the
same time simply because it is driven by the timing belt and the labour to
replace the pump is the same as to replace the belt, so it makes sense to
replace the pump just in case, rather than pay for a second lot of labour
some time later on (the cost of a new pump is a lot less than the labour to
replace it).

OK, so it's needed a new catalytic converter and diesel particulate filter,
two things that a 1960s BMC A or B engine would not have had, but those are
there for environmental rather than performance reasons: the car would run
(illegally) perfectly well without them.

I'm not aware of any rust on the body or on any of the structural members.
My first car, a 1980 Renault 5, suffered from bad rust over the rear wheels,
but even that wasn't structural.


(*) Although the bite point has gradually risen, there's no hint of slippage
so it doesn't need replacing yet. I've never had a car before that has
lasted beyond about 80,000 on the same clutch.

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Old July 27th 20, 02:11 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


You might ask Turnip why he's talking crap. But only to be expected. And
at various times he's claimed to be an engineer.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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