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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article , timegoesby wrote: There are higher water flow combi's around. The Alpha CB50 I mentioned in my last post is one. The larger combi's fill baths as fast as any storage system and are far easier to fit and get rid of tanks. I know of a few higher water flow combi's and the owners would not have anything else. Don't buy the small flow rate combi's, get a large flow model if you want fast filling baths. You are IMM and I claim my 5 pounds. I am worth far more than 5 pounds. |
#42
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Andy Hall wrote:
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:56:07 +0000 (UTC), (Fred) wrote: While I have seen combis in various locations in the UK where the hot water at mains pressure. This results in a high flow at least in areas suitable for combis, not to true for other areas where combis should not be installed - ask your plumber. I usually take a bath after doing the dishes in the evening, my bloody tank is not big enough and with the heating on, it takes forever and a bit to fill the tank. Not an issue with the combi, where hot water is on demand. No guys, where combis can be done (depending on mains pressure), they usually beat a comparable tank system flat out. That is demonstrably nonsense. There is no physical way that even quite a large combi system can deliver hot water at a greater rate than a tank storage system provided that the pipework is adequate on the storage system. Ok, point taken that I kind of compare unequally sophisticated systems with my cranky old tank. I accept what you say about the flow rate. The problem of limited supply remains. Doing the dishes, taking a bath, taking another bath, and another set of dishes - easy with children. Well, to be honest, I have never seen a new tank system, but plenty of new combi systems here. And the thing with the cold water tanks in the loft dribbling through your house makes you feel as if your buddy has a chronic prostate problem ;-) Oh and for hygienic apostles amongst us all, take a look in the cold water tank, then think about the hot water tank, where hot water stays for days. And then count the bacteria. If the hot water cylinder stores the water at 60 degrees there will not be a bacteria problem. That contradicts the fact that we all have to boil water to get rid of the nastier bugs. Seriously, 60 degrees needs a fairly long time to kill of most (not all!) bacteria. To kill the lot you need to go above 95 or so. Nice touch about the combi: it produces drinking water regardless of hot or cold water. VERY handy to wash veg in deep winter. Up here in the North it gets really cold indeed! Right. Final issue: water temperature. The combi's performance depends on the distance between boiler and bath. The closer the hotter the water. The tank has the same issue (hence its usual location in the bathroom) but, BUT, a mildly old tank system will loose heat = the hot water is not of the same temperature. Kind of sucks when you keep your hot water at a low temperature only to find out that your bath is lukewarm because the water was sitting in the tank for a day or so. This is complete nonsense. Of course you are right that the incoming mains temp is the main determinant, but if you look at the installation then distance between boiler and consumer becomes crucial. Same for your tanks, hence having the tank close to the bath. Neither will give any significant temperature drop between the point of heating and point of delivery in a normal house. That will depend on what you call normal. A combi is suitable for a flat or very small house, or where the occupants have modest requirements for hot water delivery. For a 3-4 bedroom house wiht multiple occupants, the performance becomes increasingly inferior to storage. Storage can be by directly storing the DHW in a cylinder, or via a heatbank, but is the only way to get good results where multiple bathrooms are in use. Yes that is the point. With en-suite being the dream component of an English household I see your point. Nowhere else are en-suites seen as so desirable, but I fully take your point. But to quote you: it's of course nonsense to say that a combi cannot serve a four bed house. Unless you know the customs of the household (shower rather than bath) and the preferences for low heating bills, you cannot possibly decide. Also, with combis, you get what you pay for. The cheapest oldest combis had problems, but the ones I know that have been installed here in the last five years, work great - even in big houses. I accept that the English use the bath much more than our continental neighbours, but for many people the combi works marvellously more or less regardless of the size of the household (there are limits: would like to know the heating system of Beckhams ;-)) Fred |
#44
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Andy Hall wrote:
VERY handy to wash veg in deep winter. You wash vegetables in hot water? Oh dear. First of all this is unnecessary. Secondly it begins the cooking process earlier than necessary which results in many of the vitamins in them being broken down. Patronisme as you wish, but don't tell me that it's fun to wash your veg at 5 or 6 degrees cold water. 10 or 15 is much better. In winter, you cannot get this without a mix of water. If you wash veg for half an hour in 5 degrees you will beg for a combi. At least everybody I know with a combi does mix a bit of warm water to keep the fingers from going numb. Assuming that I am washing veg in hot water is deliberate misunderstanding, kind of serves my point really. Even quite large combis can only deliver 15-20lpm of water at 40 degrees in the winter. THis is marginal for one shower, let alone two. You have obvioiusly never taken a shower in a combi system with decent mains pressure to call it marginal. Hence, I recommend case closed, keep your system and I will keep mine or rather I will have mine. Two showers btw is not the issue. I do not question that combis have problems serving two showers. Whether or not your tank system would do it for me is not the issue because I will never want a house with more than one shower, regardless of the number of children :-) Fred |
#45
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In message , Fred
writes If you wash veg for half an hour in 5 degrees you will beg for a combi. ??????????? -- geoff |
#46
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#47
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raden wrote:
In message , Fred writes If you wash veg for half an hour in 5 degrees you will beg for a combi. ??????????? Never washed a lot of vegs in very cold water? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Can be reallllllly cold. Hence: !!!!!!!!!!!! Fred |
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