i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination boiler has
anyone got inst instructions ?please

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination boiler
has
anyone got inst instructions ?please

In order to fit gas appliances, you need to be what is described in the
legislation as a "competent person". For professional installation, this is
defined as being a member of CORGI, with, possibly an exception for BG.
However, for installations within your own home, it is permitted to DIY,
provided you can hold your head up high in a court of law and justify your
competence.

Unfortunately, the level of expertise that appears to be present from the
nature of your query would indicate that the court would be unlikely to
accept that you did comply with the competence requirement, and such an
installation would be illegal, and probably highly dangerous.

The court would be looking to ensure that you were able to perform and
understand all the calculations required to design the system. They would
also need to be convinced that your understood all the safety precautions
and systems required to do a professional installation.

Finally, the replacement of the boiler would come under building regulations
and require you to make a building application to your local authority to
ensure that the system as installed would comply with Part L1, for energy
efficiency and heating controls.

I would suggest ringing around in the Yellow Pages and asking for
recommendations for a CORGI installer in your local area. There is no need
to pay the high prices that BG and the other national companies charge.

Christian.

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination boiler
has
anyone got inst instructions ?please

In order to fit gas appliances, you need to be what is described in the
legislation as a "competent person". For professional installation, this is
defined as being a member of CORGI, with, possibly an exception for BG.
However, for installations within your own home, it is permitted to DIY,
provided you can hold your head up high in a court of law and justify your
competence.

Just got into an argument with the chap in my local plumbers merchants
about this - I wanted a 1/4 inch iron plug to plug the end of the supply
pipe to gas fire I've removed.

'Is this for gas?'

'Yes'

'You have to be a member of CORGI etc.'

'Well actually you don't to DIY....'

'Oh yes you do....' and went a bit of spiel about it.

I waited to I got all my bits, before I tried to correct him, don't
think he believed me though.

Unfortunately, the level of expertise that appears to be present from the
nature of your query would indicate that the court would be unlikely to
accept that you did comply with the competence requirement,

Quite.

There is a bit in the uk.d-i-y FAQ about this.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Are you *sure* you want to do this, and have considered all the
implications?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In message , Set Square
writes

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Space was the short answer for us.

We replaced our boiler/HW tank system (the boiler was old and getting
knackered) with a combi.

We had a small bathroom , by getting rid of the tank and airing cupboard
we were able to put in decent separate shower, and rearrange things to
make a much better room. One advantage of the combi of course is we get
a good shower as well with no pumps etc.

Yes, I miss the airing cupboard at times, but I don't really miss the HW
tank that much. We are mostly shower people, and don't run baths very
often so the slow flow rate of the combi isn't to much of an issue - the
mains pressure HW is benefit. Multiple draw offs aren't a problem for
us.

It's not perfect, it's a compromise, but one that works ok for us.
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:28:50 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Space was the short answer for us.

We replaced our boiler/HW tank system (the boiler was old and getting
knackered) with a combi.

We had a small bathroom , by getting rid of the tank and airing cupboard
we were able to put in decent separate shower, and rearrange things to
make a much better room. One advantage of the combi of course is we get
a good shower as well with no pumps etc.

Yes, I miss the airing cupboard at times, but I don't really miss the HW
tank that much. We are mostly shower people, and don't run baths very
often so the slow flow rate of the combi isn't to much of an issue - the
mains pressure HW is benefit. Multiple draw offs aren't a problem for
us.

Okay, it's time for a complete CH novice to butt in here and ask a few
questions, as gas heating boilers may well be of interest to me soon.

What is a combi boiler and how does it differ from a conventional
boiler?

I have an airing cupboard, a hot water tank and my boiler has a pump.
How/why does the combi boiler get rid of both the latter?

What are the fundamental differences in two properties' heating
systems, one with a conventional boiler, and the other with a combi
boiler?

MM

I have an airing cupboard, a hot water tank and my boiler has a pump.
How/why does the combi boiler get rid of both the latter?

The difference between the (instantaneous) combi and the non-combi boiler is
that the combi boiler has a heat exchanger that heats the incoming cold
water as you need it. It does this without any tanks or hot or cold water
storage. Advantages are that it uses the full mains pressure, so you get
excellent showers (assuming a reasonable water supply). Unfortunately, it
will heat only so much water at a time, so bath filling tends to be slow.
They are a good choice for houses where the bath is used infrequently, as
they are cheaper, smaller and more efficient than a storage based solution.

It gets rid of the external pump, because they almost invariably have an
internal one, making the external one redundant. Even most non-combi boilers
have a built in pump these days.

Christian.

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:34:46 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I have an airing cupboard, a hot water tank and my boiler has a pump.
How/why does the combi boiler get rid of both the latter?

The difference between the (instantaneous) combi and the non-combi boiler is
that the combi boiler has a heat exchanger that heats the incoming cold
water as you need it. It does this without any tanks or hot or cold water
storage. Advantages are that it uses the full mains pressure, so you get
excellent showers (assuming a reasonable water supply). Unfortunately, it
will heat only so much water at a time, so bath filling tends to be slow.
They are a good choice for houses where the bath is used infrequently, as
they are cheaper, smaller and more efficient than a storage based solution.

It gets rid of the external pump, because they almost invariably have an
internal one, making the external one redundant. Even most non-combi boilers
have a built in pump these days.

Christian.

Ah, right. I couldn't do without my baths, though! I lived with a
shower for 12 years (i.e. no bath) and the joy of a relaxing, piping
hot bath, especially on a cold winter's morning, is irreplaceable.

MM

Christian McArdle wrote:

[Combi-boilers] will heat only so much water at a time, so bath
filling tends to be slow. They are a good choice for houses where
the bath is used infrequently, as they are cheaper, smaller and more
efficient than a storage based solution.

I know Christian knows this, but to help clarify:

They are a good choice for houses where the bath is used
infrequently, or where bath-taking is seen as a slow, relaxing
affair and the 10-15 minutes to fill one can be taken to prepare
oneself for having a bath (this seems to take Mrs Socks about 25-30
minutes, so 10-15 minutes of that time simultaniously having the
bath filling isn't a problem!).
--
Selah

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:33:24 +0100, Mike Mitchell wrote:

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:28:50 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Space was the short answer for us.

We replaced our boiler/HW tank system (the boiler was old and getting
knackered) with a combi.

We had a small bathroom , by getting rid of the tank and airing cupboard
we were able to put in decent separate shower, and rearrange things to
make a much better room. One advantage of the combi of course is we get
a good shower as well with no pumps etc.

Yes, I miss the airing cupboard at times, but I don't really miss the HW
tank that much. We are mostly shower people, and don't run baths very
often so the slow flow rate of the combi isn't to much of an issue - the
mains pressure HW is benefit. Multiple draw offs aren't a problem for
us.

Okay, it's time for a complete CH novice to butt in here and ask a few
questions, as gas heating boilers may well be of interest to me soon.

What is a combi boiler and how does it differ from a conventional
boiler?

I have an airing cupboard, a hot water tank and my boiler has a pump.
How/why does the combi boiler get rid of both the latter?

What are the fundamental differences in two properties' heating
systems, one with a conventional boiler, and the other with a combi
boiler?

See main FAQ. And the other ones too.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Mike Mitchell wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:28:50 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Space was the short answer for us.

We replaced our boiler/HW tank system (the boiler was old and getting
knackered) with a combi.

We had a small bathroom , by getting rid of the tank and airing cupboard
we were able to put in decent separate shower, and rearrange things to
make a much better room. One advantage of the combi of course is we get
a good shower as well with no pumps etc.

Yes, I miss the airing cupboard at times, but I don't really miss the HW
tank that much. We are mostly shower people, and don't run baths very
often so the slow flow rate of the combi isn't to much of an issue - the
mains pressure HW is benefit. Multiple draw offs aren't a problem for
us.

Okay, it's time for a complete CH novice to butt in here and ask a few
questions, as gas heating boilers may well be of interest to me soon.

What is a combi boiler and how does it differ from a conventional
boiler?

I have an airing cupboard, a hot water tank and my boiler has a pump.
How/why does the combi boiler get rid of both the latter?

What are the fundamental differences in two properties' heating
systems, one with a conventional boiler, and the other with a combi
boiler?

IMM did an excellent post on the differnt types of combi's. Do a
Google. I did a Google on Alpha CB50 and it came up. Read this first
before you go any futher.

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want*
to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:47:00 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want*
to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.

As are the disadvantages, such as the poor results when the available
water flow is poor.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:47:00 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably
*want*
to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.

As are the disadvantages, such as the poor results when the available
water flow is poor.

As with any mains fed system.

And when the available water flow is good, the advantages fly.

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:28:46 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:47:00 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably
*want*
to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.

As are the disadvantages, such as the poor results when the available
water flow is poor.

As with any mains fed system.

And when the available water flow is good, the advantages fly.


Provided that the boiler is large enough for the application.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.

Yup, they're cheap and easy to fit, so recommended by every plumber with
his eye on his profits.

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably
*want*
to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

What a stupid question!! The advantages of combi boilers are well known.


Well if taking three times as long to run a hot bath as would take using a
HW tank system (opposed to a mildly warm one given the same flow rate) is an
advantage.....

Just a real world example of a combi system that I came across the other day
whilst talking to some friends.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:13:00 +0100, Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas fitting -
so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably *want* to
replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Are you *sure* you want to do this, and have considered all the
implications?


To parody Fowler on the subject of split infinitives:

The combi questioner can be divided in several groups.

Firstly, those who neither know nor care.
These are the happiest of all especially if someone else pays the bills.

Secondly, those who don't know and do care.
They post to uk.d-i-y.

Thirdly, those who know and always approve.
We all know who he is.

Fourthly those who know and always condemn.
To those of you who are in this group I beg you to read on. I suspect
that this group is larger than it might otherwise be on account of two
factors. Firstly there are a proportion of professional installers who for
their own reasons prefer to always fit a combi regardless of the needs of
the customer. Secondly those in the third group whose style of advocacy could be
described as abrasive.


Fifthly those who know and discrimate.
There are quite a number of criteria which have to be considered.
User's infomred preferences.
User's previous experience.
User's prejudice.
Size of dwelling: Space v. cylinder benfits.
User's HW usage patterns.
Instant Availability v. Storage heat losses.
Number and size of simultaneous or back-to-back HW demands
(Showers v. baths.)
Quality of mains supply.
Pre-Existing arrangements and cost implications.
...



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:13:00 +0100, Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting - so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably
*want* to replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Are you *sure* you want to do this, and have considered all the
implications?


To parody Fowler on the subject of split infinitives:

The combi questioner can be divided in several groups.

Firstly, those who neither know nor care.
These are the happiest of all especially if someone else pays the
bills.

Secondly, those who don't know and do care.
They post to uk.d-i-y.

Thirdly, those who know and always approve.
We all know who he is.

Fourthly those who know and always condemn.
To those of you who are in this group I beg you to read on. I suspect
that this group is larger than it might otherwise be on account of two
factors. Firstly there are a proportion of professional installers
who for their own reasons prefer to always fit a combi regardless of
the needs of
the customer. Secondly those in the third group whose style of
advocacy could be described as abrasive.


Fifthly those who know and discrimate.
There are quite a number of criteria which have to be considered.
User's infomred preferences.
User's previous experience.
User's prejudice.
Size of dwelling: Space v. cylinder benfits.
User's HW usage patterns.
Instant Availability v. Storage heat losses.
Number and size of simultaneous or back-to-back HW demands
(Showers v. baths.)
Quality of mains supply.
Pre-Existing arrangements and cost implications.
...

I'm not sure into which category I'm deemed to fall, having questioned the
wisdom of converting to a combi!

Although I have a bias against combis in principle, there are circumstances
where they are appropriate - when starting with a clean sheet. For example,
my 95-year-old father-in-law lives in a bungalow which is heated by electric
storage heaters, with the hot water being heated by an immersion heater. I
would desperately like him to ditch the storage heaters and go for a decent
gas-fired heating and hot water system. [Gas *is* available, even though he
doesn't currently use it]. A combi would suit him down to the ground.

However, in cases where a system already exists - using a conventional
boiler and stored hot water - there would, in my view, have to be some
pretty exceptional circumstances to warrant converting to a combi-based
system.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 23:03:38 +0100, Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:13:00 +0100, Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jentrev96 wrote:

i would like to replace my conventional boiler with a combination
boiler has anyone got inst instructions ?please

Others have already commented on competence issues related to gas
fitting - so I won't repeat all that.

However, I'm faced with the question "Why would anyone conceivably
*want* to replace a conventional boiler with a combi?"

Are you *sure* you want to do this, and have considered all the
implications?


To parody Fowler on the subject of split infinitives:

The combi questioner can be divided in several groups.

Firstly, those who neither know nor care.
These are the happiest of all especially if someone else pays the
bills.

Secondly, those who don't know and do care.
They post to uk.d-i-y.

Thirdly, those who know and always approve.
We all know who he is.

Fourthly those who know and always condemn.
To those of you who are in this group I beg you to read on. I suspect
that this group is larger than it might otherwise be on account of two
factors. Firstly there are a proportion of professional installers
who for their own reasons prefer to always fit a combi regardless of
the needs of
the customer. Secondly those in the third group whose style of
advocacy could be described as abrasive.


Fifthly those who know and discrimate.
There are quite a number of criteria which have to be considered.
User's infomred preferences.
User's previous experience.
User's prejudice.
Size of dwelling: Space v. cylinder benfits.
User's HW usage patterns.
Instant Availability v. Storage heat losses.
Number and size of simultaneous or back-to-back HW demands
(Showers v. baths.)
Quality of mains supply.
Pre-Existing arrangements and cost implications.
...

I'm not sure into which category I'm deemed to fall, having questioned the
wisdom of converting to a combi!

Although I have a bias against combis in principle, there are circumstances
where they are appropriate - when starting with a clean sheet. For example,
my 95-year-old father-in-law lives in a bungalow which is heated by electric
storage heaters, with the hot water being heated by an immersion heater. I
would desperately like him to ditch the storage heaters and go for a decent
gas-fired heating and hot water system. [Gas *is* available, even though he
doesn't currently use it]. A combi would suit him down to the ground.

However, in cases where a system already exists - using a conventional
boiler and stored hot water - there would, in my view, have to be some
pretty exceptional circumstances to warrant converting to a combi-based
system.

A typical dwelling where a combi might well be the best approach is:

A 1 bed flat built in 1975 which has a Arcopack (sp?) and a life expired
conventional boiler.
The Arcopack unit is pre-plumbed steel contraption with a steel CW
cistern and an insulated copper HW tank/cylinder) in the lower section.
Typically a small F&E header tank is provided inside the upper part of the
cistern for the primary circuit.
Flow rates to the bath are moderate and there is no (I don't mean little)
pressure for a shower.

The mains is plastic but only 1/2"/20mm. Good enough for a combi but
debatable for unvented.

The cupboard space is relatively more valuable in a small flat. The
maximum occupation is likely to be a couple + very small kid.

You will not likely rent out any such flat in the middle market private
sector without a shower.

The combi will only be a little larger than the old boiler.

Booster pumps can cause noise problems leading to serious conflict between
neighbours.

The case for a combi is fairly strong in the above scenario.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 23:03:38 +0100, Set Square wrote:


However, in cases where a system already exists - using a
conventional boiler and stored hot water - there would, in my view,
have to be some pretty exceptional circumstances to warrant
converting to a combi-based system.

A typical dwelling where a combi might well be the best approach is:

A 1 bed flat built in 1975 which has a Arcopack (sp?) and a life
expired conventional boiler.
The Arcopack unit is pre-plumbed steel contraption with a steel CW
cistern and an insulated copper HW tank/cylinder) in the lower
section. Typically a small F&E header tank is provided inside the
upper part of the cistern for the primary circuit.
Flow rates to the bath are moderate and there is no (I don't mean
little) pressure for a shower.

The mains is plastic but only 1/2"/20mm. Good enough for a combi but
debatable for unvented.

The cupboard space is relatively more valuable in a small flat. The
maximum occupation is likely to be a couple + very small kid.

You will not likely rent out any such flat in the middle market
private sector without a shower.

The combi will only be a little larger than the old boiler.

Booster pumps can cause noise problems leading to serious conflict
between neighbours.

The case for a combi is fairly strong in the above scenario.


Agreed - there will be specific (dare I say "exceptional"?) circumstances
where a combi is the appropriate solution.

However, *in general*, I believe that replacing a conventional boiler with a
combi *doesn't* make sense.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.