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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed
to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. By the way, Connells suggested that I use their solicitor/conveyancer, but the local solicitor, who has been recommended to me, is far cheaper. Let's see what happens. MM |
#2
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In message , Mike Mitchell
writes Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. By the way, Connells suggested that I use their solicitor/conveyancer, but the local solicitor, who has been recommended to me, is far cheaper. Let's see what happens. MM Mike, Sounds like a done deal? How many viewings have you had in the 3 month period? What feedback did you get as to why individual viewers did not want to buy? (Most wont give a truthful answer), but if you hear a similar tangible thing 2 or 3 times, it can mean that there is something about the house, rather than the agent. It always amazes me when agents come up with campaigns like this - Doesnt every agent try their best to sell all properties as quickly as possible? The campaign name suggests that Connells usually dont try to sell houses within 6 weeks g I have no doubt that the campaign will attract lots of new properties for them to sell, just as the quiet time of year is ending - very clever timing. What do Connells offer if they dont sell your house within 6 weeks? Do you have to sign a minimum agency period agreement? One agent near us offered to sell houses for free - however, when the documentation turned up, it actually said that if the house sold within 6 weeks, there would be no fee, after that the usual fee would apply. How motivated the agents were to sell within 6 weeks, I cant imagine. Lots of people were enticed to invite them in for a valuation, and the numbers game meant they got a lot of houses to sell. Inertia then meant that most of these houses stayed with them after the 6 weeks. What will probably happen is that Connells will sell your house, and you will think they are wonderful. However, you will never know if it was because the market gets going in September after the holiday period, when your previous agent may have found the same buyer, or if Connells made an extra special effort. Or Connells will not sell your house, and you may be attracted by another inviting marketing campaign in a few months. With some houses, I found that they did the rounds of all the local agents, and it was luck of the draw as to which agent sold them. One thing you must be careful of is that if the market has stabilised around you, or is beginning to fall slightly, you could be left following a falling market. I am sure that this will begin to happen in some parts of the country over the foreseeable future. -- Richard Faulkner |
#3
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![]() "Richard Faulkner" wrote in message ... In message , Mike Mitchell writes Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. snip loads of good stuff With some houses, I found that they did the rounds of all the local agents, and it was luck of the draw as to which agent sold them. I agree, it is you who sell your house, not the agent. The agent simply markets it and manages the completion. One thing you must be careful of is that if the market has stabilised around you, or is beginning to fall slightly, you could be left following a falling market. I am sure that this will begin to happen in some parts of the country over the foreseeable future. -- Richard Faulkner |
#4
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On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:24:19 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote: In message , Mike Mitchell writes Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. By the way, Connells suggested that I use their solicitor/conveyancer, but the local solicitor, who has been recommended to me, is far cheaper. Let's see what happens. MM Mike, Sounds like a done deal? How many viewings have you had in the 3 month period? 23 What feedback did you get as to why individual viewers did not want to buy? Little to non-existent. Many viewers remain non-contactable, despite messages being left for them. Others say they want a property with "more character" (wouldn't we all?). Others say the area is not suitable (so why not investigate the area first?) All viewers have made favourable comments about the good presentational state of property, the larger than average rooms, the off-road parking, and the gardens, and no estate agent has suggested anything obvious that could put people off. I know the real reason. I know what the most obvious thing is that no one wants to mention, like an old beloved granny prone to serial farting. I know that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. No one, especially the yuppy sort coming out of Middlesex, wants to live on a council estate! They don't say so in so many words, but you can tell that they could never be seen dead in an ex-LA property. I might as well paint a cross on the wall and stick up a sign saying "unclean". But I bought an ex-council house; THIS one! It was all I could afford at the time and I didn't (and still don't) give a toss whether it's on a council estate or in a leafy suburb of Richmond or Harrogate. That's the kind of person this property needs to be targeted at, and I don't believe it has been happening. Hopefully, Connells, which seems to specialise in the lower end of the market (I bought this very house from Connells, in fact) have the downhome attitude that appeals to the kind of buyer I need. But I couldn't just sit around and wait for another 23 to come through the door. I had to be proactive somehow, since in terms of price, any viewer was free to make an offer. So my choice for being proactive was to select a different agent. This is the third agent. If necessary, I shall move to a fourth, fifth and sixth agent. I don't give a toss who sells it. Also, Connells' commission for the six-week challenge is 1.75%, i.e. considerably higher than usual. I don't give a toss about that either. If I can sell for around £200K, I'm not going to nit-pick over 1,500 quid or so. (Most wont give a truthful answer), but if you hear a similar tangible thing 2 or 3 times, it can mean that there is something about the house, rather than the agent. It always amazes me when agents come up with campaigns like this - Doesnt every agent try their best to sell all properties as quickly as possible? The campaign name suggests that Connells usually dont try to sell houses within 6 weeks g I have no doubt that the campaign will attract lots of new properties for them to sell, just as the quiet time of year is ending - very clever timing. What do Connells offer if they dont sell your house within 6 weeks? Do you have to sign a minimum agency period agreement? It's up to me what happens after six weeks. At present I feel like telling each agent, okay, you've got a week, then it's curtains. After all, they always profess to have a large waiting list of applicants. One agent near us offered to sell houses for free - however, when the documentation turned up, it actually said that if the house sold within 6 weeks, there would be no fee, after that the usual fee would apply. How motivated the agents were to sell within 6 weeks, I cant imagine. Lots of people were enticed to invite them in for a valuation, and the numbers game meant they got a lot of houses to sell. Inertia then meant that most of these houses stayed with them after the 6 weeks. What will probably happen is that Connells will sell your house, and you will think they are wonderful. That is the only thing I am interested in - a result. However, you will never know if it was because the market gets going in September after the holiday period, when your previous agent may have found the same buyer, or if Connells made an extra special effort. Some say that the market is always dead in August, yet others say they are still selling houses. How can you believe anything an estate agent tells you? My proof is in the pudding, i.e. when one of them sells it! Or Connells will not sell your house, and you may be attracted by another inviting marketing campaign in a few months. Fair enough. With some houses, I found that they did the rounds of all the local agents, and it was luck of the draw as to which agent sold them. Again, fair enough. It's a dog-eat-dog world out here. One thing you must be careful of is that if the market has stabilised around you, or is beginning to fall slightly, you could be left following a falling market. I am sure that this will begin to happen in some parts of the country over the foreseeable future. That doesn't matter in my case, since the properties in my preferred target area (Lincolnshire, Norfolk) are becoming cheaper, too. MM |
#5
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In message , Mike Mitchell
writes On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:24:19 +0100, Richard Faulkner wrote: In message , Mike Mitchell writes Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. By the way, Connells suggested that I use their solicitor/conveyancer, but the local solicitor, who has been recommended to me, is far cheaper. Let's see what happens. MM Mike, Sounds like a done deal? How many viewings have you had in the 3 month period? 23 What feedback did you get as to why individual viewers did not want to buy? Little to non-existent. Many viewers remain non-contactable, despite messages being left for them. Others say they want a property with "more character" (wouldn't we all?). Others say the area is not suitable (so why not investigate the area first?) All viewers have made favourable comments about the good presentational state of property, the larger than average rooms, the off-road parking, and the gardens, and no estate agent has suggested anything obvious that could put people off. 23 viewings in 3 months over summer is good in terms of volume. So something is obviously wrong - type of viewer, condition of house, price, immediate locale, etc. .... (just thinking aloud). I know the real reason. I know what the most obvious thing is that no one wants to mention, like an old beloved granny prone to serial farting. I know that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. No one, especially the yuppy sort coming out of Middlesex, wants to live on a council estate! They don't say so in so many words, but you can tell that they could never be seen dead in an ex-LA property. I might as well paint a cross on the wall and stick up a sign saying "unclean". Then why not "paint a cross on the house and say unclean"? As you suggest, there is no point in attracting people to look at the house if there is no way they are going to even think about it. Make it clear in the brochure, window display, and advertising, that it is an ex council house on the "such and such" estate - this can be done in a very positive way. It is possible that the agents have built the house up to be something it is not, which only results in disappointment when people arrive - a complete waste of everybodys time. (You may already be doing this). But I bought an ex-council house; THIS one! It was all I could afford at the time and I didn't (and still don't) give a toss whether it's on a council estate or in a leafy suburb of Richmond or Harrogate. That's the kind of person this property needs to be targeted at, and I don't believe it has been happening. Hopefully, Connells, which seems to specialise in the lower end of the market (I bought this very house from Connells, in fact) have the downhome attitude that appeals to the kind of buyer I need. OK. I dont think even you have mentioned previously that it is an ex LA house. One of the things I used to ask sellers was what attracted them to their home when they bought it: Comments could range from: "I just had to have a house of this style, in this location, and it didnt really matter what it cost, or how much work needed doing to it" to "It was all that I could afford". But I couldn't just sit around and wait for another 23 to come through the door. I had to be proactive somehow, since in terms of price, any viewer was free to make an offer. So my choice for being proactive was to select a different agent. This is the third agent. If necessary, I shall move to a fourth, fifth and sixth agent. I don't give a toss who sells it. Also, Connells' commission for the six-week challenge is 1.75%, i.e. considerably higher than usual. I don't give a toss about that either. If I can sell for around £200K, I'm not going to nit-pick over 1,500 quid or so. Agreed. Given that you have a house in a location where it is possible that nobody will want it unless it is all that they can afford, is it priced so that it is all that some buyers can afford? I.e. what is your competition at around your asking price. In my area, most people would rather buy older terraced houses with a bit of character than the council houses around the corner, so the terraces are the immediate competition. At the moment, a reasonable 3 bed terrace with a small garden and yard is around £140K - £150K, and a reasonable ex council 3 bed semi with gardens and drive is around £115K - 125K, or 16% to 20% cheaper. Can you do the same analogy around your home? You might reach the conclusion that you may need to be more competitive. It is possible that you may have to be prepared to nit pick over £20,000 or so. Whilst any viewer is free to make an offer, there are many who do not for fear of being thought cheeky, so you may need to tell them what you will accept. It's all very well asking more because people will always offer less, but there is also a price at which asking less will encourage people to offer more. (Most wont give a truthful answer), but if you hear a similar tangible thing 2 or 3 times, it can mean that there is something about the house, rather than the agent. It always amazes me when agents come up with campaigns like this - Doesnt every agent try their best to sell all properties as quickly as possible? The campaign name suggests that Connells usually dont try to sell houses within 6 weeks g I have no doubt that the campaign will attract lots of new properties for them to sell, just as the quiet time of year is ending - very clever timing. What do Connells offer if they dont sell your house within 6 weeks? Do you have to sign a minimum agency period agreement? It's up to me what happens after six weeks. At present I feel like telling each agent, okay, you've got a week, then it's curtains. After all, they always profess to have a large waiting list of applicants. One agent near us offered to sell houses for free - however, when the documentation turned up, it actually said that if the house sold within 6 weeks, there would be no fee, after that the usual fee would apply. How motivated the agents were to sell within 6 weeks, I cant imagine. Lots of people were enticed to invite them in for a valuation, and the numbers game meant they got a lot of houses to sell. Inertia then meant that most of these houses stayed with them after the 6 weeks. What will probably happen is that Connells will sell your house, and you will think they are wonderful. That is the only thing I am interested in - a result. However, you will never know if it was because the market gets going in September after the holiday period, when your previous agent may have found the same buyer, or if Connells made an extra special effort. Some say that the market is always dead in August, yet others say they are still selling houses. How can you believe anything an estate agent tells you? My proof is in the pudding, i.e. when one of them sells it! Neither is really lying. It's just how they dress it up. Your previous agent probably told you that the market is dead, and Connells and others probably tell you that they are still selling houses. We always sold houses in the summer, but nowhere near as many as we did in the Spring & Autumn. You would probably have found that Connells would have been telling you that the market was dead if you had been on the market with them and not sold. Having said that, I agree that it is extremely difficult to sort out the sausage from the sizzle when listening to estate agents, (or any other type of salesperson selling an intangible service). Or Connells will not sell your house, and you may be attracted by another inviting marketing campaign in a few months. Fair enough. With some houses, I found that they did the rounds of all the local agents, and it was luck of the draw as to which agent sold them. Again, fair enough. It's a dog-eat-dog world out here. What I was trying to say was that market conditions and asking price tended to dictate when a house would sell, and not which agent was selling it. E.g. In a rising market, a house too highly priced in January might sell in say, August, when the market has risen to match the asking price. If the seller is impatient, he may have used 3/4 agents in this time, but the first agent would have sold it at the same time, possibly to the same person. One thing you must be careful of is that if the market has stabilised around you, or is beginning to fall slightly, you could be left following a falling market. I am sure that this will begin to happen in some parts of the country over the foreseeable future. That doesn't matter in my case, since the properties in my preferred target area (Lincolnshire, Norfolk) are becoming cheaper, too. Dont forget that I dont know you, your house, your area, or the estate agents, so the above are fairly rash generalisations. If you want, you could give me your postcode, or something, and a description of your house, and I'll have a look at the internet sites to see how it looks in comparison with your competition. (Do this by e.mail if you like) MM -- Richard Faulkner |
#6
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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:23:28 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote: In message , Mike Mitchell writes On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:24:19 +0100, Richard Faulkner wrote: In message , Mike Mitchell writes Well, the previous agent, although getting viewings, has not managed to sell my property after almost three months (by the time the 2-week notice period is up). Connells are doing a "Six-Week Challenge" offer, where they try their best to sell a property within six weeks. By the way, Connells suggested that I use their solicitor/conveyancer, but the local solicitor, who has been recommended to me, is far cheaper. Let's see what happens. MM Mike, Sounds like a done deal? How many viewings have you had in the 3 month period? 23 What feedback did you get as to why individual viewers did not want to buy? Little to non-existent. Many viewers remain non-contactable, despite messages being left for them. Others say they want a property with "more character" (wouldn't we all?). Others say the area is not suitable (so why not investigate the area first?) All viewers have made favourable comments about the good presentational state of property, the larger than average rooms, the off-road parking, and the gardens, and no estate agent has suggested anything obvious that could put people off. 23 viewings in 3 months over summer is good in terms of volume. So something is obviously wrong - type of viewer, condition of house, price, immediate locale, etc. .... (just thinking aloud). The condition of the property is fine, in fact, with every room redecorated in a neutral colour (and not just slapped on either), doors and frames freshly painted, window frames thoroughly taken back (where necessary) to bare wood and refinished, or, on two windows, completely replaced, and the front and back gardens nicely established, the property, I have been told, and not just by estate agents, is totally ideal for, say, a first-time buyer, or for a widower or widow needing or wanting to downsize from the family home. I think it's a combination of the wrong type of buyer for the council estate locale (even though many of the houses have been owner-occupied for yonks). I know the real reason. I know what the most obvious thing is that no one wants to mention, like an old beloved granny prone to serial farting. I know that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. No one, especially the yuppy sort coming out of Middlesex, wants to live on a council estate! They don't say so in so many words, but you can tell that they could never be seen dead in an ex-LA property. I might as well paint a cross on the wall and stick up a sign saying "unclean". Then why not "paint a cross on the house and say unclean"? As you suggest, there is no point in attracting people to look at the house if there is no way they are going to even think about it. Make it clear in the brochure, window display, and advertising, that it is an ex council house on the "such and such" estate - this can be done in a very positive way. It is possible that the agents have built the house up to be something it is not, which only results in disappointment when people arrive - a complete waste of everybodys time. (You may already be doing this). There has been no mention of "ex-LA" in any of the advertising so far, although I have been told that viewers are made aware of this when they first contact the agent for an appointment. But this is the case with other ex-LA properties with other agents, i.e. no one wants to menton it, hoping people won't notice as neighbouring houses have long since been bought. Sadly, as you and I well know, the typical English council estate has "council estate" stamped all over it. In fact, the councils must have gone to special lengths to give them that 'look' in order to goad tenants into bettering themselves and moving on. I also have some direct evidence. I placed a few cards in newsagents windows, to help things along a bit (I wasn't trying to cheat the agent out of his commission as I marked the cards that this was not a private sale). I received practically no interest whatsoever, but on one of the three occasions when someone rang up and asked which road it was on, and I told them, they said, "Oh, I see. Thanks." And rang off, as if I could hear them shrieking across the room: "Untouchable! Untouchable!" On another the reaction was very similar. And on the third the lady said she'd talk it over with her hubby, but nothing came of it. However, I can assure you that this estate is NOT run down, NOT plagued with crime or roaming juveniles. It is, though, pretty obviously a council estate, and I have known people for years who would rather stick pins in their eyes than live on one. Even my own late father was aghast that I would even consider a "council house", whereupon I told him that it was just a house, a solidly built house, and one that I could afford, end of story. There is an awful lot of snobbery associated with houses, you know. HOWEVER, when people come round I am as nice as pie and totally noncommittal. If they ask about the neighbours (good), noise (none), the boiler (regularly serviced), shops (ten-minute' walk), schools (favoured catchment area), and anything else, I don't try to dress it up or play it down. They are usually surprised enough on their own by the largeness of the rooms without my needing to point it out. Several separate viewers have applauded the solid internal walls upstairs and down. But I bought an ex-council house; THIS one! It was all I could afford at the time and I didn't (and still don't) give a toss whether it's on a council estate or in a leafy suburb of Richmond or Harrogate. That's the kind of person this property needs to be targeted at, and I don't believe it has been happening. Hopefully, Connells, which seems to specialise in the lower end of the market (I bought this very house from Connells, in fact) have the downhome attitude that appeals to the kind of buyer I need. OK. I dont think even you have mentioned previously that it is an ex LA house. I have done in different threads, but no, not in this one, so far. You see, even I am getting that I don't like to mention it! This is how the stigma is promulgated. One of the things I used to ask sellers was what attracted them to their home when they bought it: Comments could range from: "I just had to have a house of this style, in this location, and it didnt really matter what it cost, or how much work needed doing to it" to "It was all that I could afford". But I couldn't just sit around and wait for another 23 to come through the door. I had to be proactive somehow, since in terms of price, any viewer was free to make an offer. So my choice for being proactive was to select a different agent. This is the third agent. If necessary, I shall move to a fourth, fifth and sixth agent. I don't give a toss who sells it. Also, Connells' commission for the six-week challenge is 1.75%, i.e. considerably higher than usual. I don't give a toss about that either. If I can sell for around £200K, I'm not going to nit-pick over 1,500 quid or so. Agreed. Given that you have a house in a location where it is possible that nobody will want it unless it is all that they can afford, is it priced so that it is all that some buyers can afford? Absolutely it is. It is, bar a couple of flats, the cheapest property in the village. Only a few weeks ago two three-bed semis on a very busy main road where residents' parked cars are always getting their door mirrors whacked, sold for around £250K. Needless to say, those properties are NOT on the council estate and are Victorian, i.e. supposedly have "character". Personally, as I lived in one of them for a short while, I think they are eyesores, the bathrooms have been added on behind the kitchens, the properties are very dark inside, and I wouldn't buy one if you paid me. And I have off-street parking for three cars as well! I.e. what is your competition at around your asking price. In my area, most people would rather buy older terraced houses with a bit of character than the council houses around the corner, so the terraces are the immediate competition. At the moment, a reasonable 3 bed terrace with a small garden and yard is around £140K - £150K, and a reasonable ex council 3 bed semi with gardens and drive is around £115K - 125K, or 16% to 20% cheaper. Can you do the same analogy around your home? You might reach the conclusion that you may need to be more competitive. It is possible that you may have to be prepared to nit pick over £20,000 or so. If Connells have no success, then yes, there will be no choice other than to reduce the price again. (It has been reduced twice already.) Whilst any viewer is free to make an offer, there are many who do not for fear of being thought cheeky, so you may need to tell them what you will accept. It's all very well asking more because people will always offer less, but there is also a price at which asking less will encourage people to offer more. Over the last few viewings I have intimated to the viewers that the current asking price should be looked at as a ballpark figure - so that they go out of the door thinking that they can indeed be a little bit cheeky. So far, no dice. (Most wont give a truthful answer), but if you hear a similar tangible thing 2 or 3 times, it can mean that there is something about the house, rather than the agent. It always amazes me when agents come up with campaigns like this - Doesnt every agent try their best to sell all properties as quickly as possible? The campaign name suggests that Connells usually dont try to sell houses within 6 weeks g I have no doubt that the campaign will attract lots of new properties for them to sell, just as the quiet time of year is ending - very clever timing. What do Connells offer if they dont sell your house within 6 weeks? Do you have to sign a minimum agency period agreement? It's up to me what happens after six weeks. At present I feel like telling each agent, okay, you've got a week, then it's curtains. After all, they always profess to have a large waiting list of applicants. One agent near us offered to sell houses for free - however, when the documentation turned up, it actually said that if the house sold within 6 weeks, there would be no fee, after that the usual fee would apply. How motivated the agents were to sell within 6 weeks, I cant imagine. Lots of people were enticed to invite them in for a valuation, and the numbers game meant they got a lot of houses to sell. Inertia then meant that most of these houses stayed with them after the 6 weeks. What will probably happen is that Connells will sell your house, and you will think they are wonderful. That is the only thing I am interested in - a result. However, you will never know if it was because the market gets going in September after the holiday period, when your previous agent may have found the same buyer, or if Connells made an extra special effort. Some say that the market is always dead in August, yet others say they are still selling houses. How can you believe anything an estate agent tells you? My proof is in the pudding, i.e. when one of them sells it! Neither is really lying. It's just how they dress it up. Your previous agent probably told you that the market is dead, and Connells and others probably tell you that they are still selling houses. We always sold houses in the summer, but nowhere near as many as we did in the Spring & Autumn. You would probably have found that Connells would have been telling you that the market was dead if you had been on the market with them and not sold. Having said that, I agree that it is extremely difficult to sort out the sausage from the sizzle when listening to estate agents, (or any other type of salesperson selling an intangible service). Or Connells will not sell your house, and you may be attracted by another inviting marketing campaign in a few months. Fair enough. With some houses, I found that they did the rounds of all the local agents, and it was luck of the draw as to which agent sold them. Again, fair enough. It's a dog-eat-dog world out here. What I was trying to say was that market conditions and asking price tended to dictate when a house would sell, and not which agent was selling it. E.g. In a rising market, a house too highly priced in January might sell in say, August, when the market has risen to match the asking price. If the seller is impatient, he may have used 3/4 agents in this time, but the first agent would have sold it at the same time, possibly to the same person. One thing you must be careful of is that if the market has stabilised around you, or is beginning to fall slightly, you could be left following a falling market. I am sure that this will begin to happen in some parts of the country over the foreseeable future. That doesn't matter in my case, since the properties in my preferred target area (Lincolnshire, Norfolk) are becoming cheaper, too. Dont forget that I dont know you, your house, your area, or the estate agents, so the above are fairly rash generalisations. If you want, you could give me your postcode, or something, and a description of your house, and I'll have a look at the internet sites to see how it looks in comparison with your competition. (Do this by e.mail if you like) MM |
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