I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks
Pete

"petek" wrote in message
...
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR
switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs.
The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they
must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

The philips Hue system will do that. Not cheap tho.

On 30/03/2020 23:00, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

I don't think you want a "2 way PIR". (I'm not sure what that would
mean. If PR1 has turned the lights on then if PIR2 is also triggered it
turns them off?) Being pedantic, I think you want the lights on if
either PIR1 or PIR2 *or both* are triggered

You can do that by wiring two PIRs in parallel from the same supply.
But check the PIRs are OK being wired in parallel. It's a while since I
did this and at that time some weren't at all happy with a live "coming
back at them" (as it were).


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:09:00 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole troll's latest troll**** unread

09:09??? And SIX HOURS of your senile trolling already, you abnormal senile
pest?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 30/03/2020 23:33, Robin wrote:
On 30/03/2020 23:00, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR
switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way
PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I
presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

I don't think you want a "2 way PIR".Â* (I'm not sure what that would
mean.Â* If PR1 has turned the lights on then if PIR2 is also triggered it
turns them off?) Being pedantic, I think you want the lights on if
either PIR1 or PIR2 *or both* are triggered

You can do that by wiring two PIRs in parallel from the same supply. But
check the PIRs are OK being wired in parallel.Â* It's a while since I did
this and at that time some weren't at all happy with a live "coming back
at them" (as it were).



Belatedly realised this is probably covered in the Wiki, and lo,
complete with picture, from John Rumm :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/2_Way_Switching#Switching_with_multiple_PIRs

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Monday, 30 March 2020 23:00:42 UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks
Pete

just connect the PIR outputs together, this has nothing to do with 2 way switching.


NT

You can do that by wiring two PIRs in parallel from the same supply.
But check the PIRs are OK being wired in parallel. It's a while since
I did this and at that time some weren't at all happy with a live
"coming back at them" (as it were).



Would something in the circuit prevent a problem?

On Tuesday, 31 March 2020 09:21:58 UTC+1, John wrote:

You can do that by wiring two PIRs in parallel from the same supply.
But check the PIRs are OK being wired in parallel. It's a while since
I did this and at that time some weren't at all happy with a live
"coming back at them" (as it were).



Would something in the circuit prevent a problem?

Relays could. I'd try them connected first.

In article ,
petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR
switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs.
The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume
they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2
way PIR?

I doubt you'd want a two way PIR where one coming on would switch off the
other?

You need to parallel connect them. So either coming on brings on the
lights.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 30 March 2020 23:00:42 UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?


You don't actually need a two way switch.
You want the lights coming on if either or both detectors are activated.
You need to link the PIR switches in parallel.


(The "off" function is automatic.)

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 23:38:19 +0100, Robin wrote:



Belatedly realised this is probably covered in the Wiki, and lo,
complete with picture, from John Rumm :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/2_Way_Switching#Switching_with_multiple_PIRs

I connected mine like this a year or so back. Got some single core
cable from an eBay seller to make the connection. It works a treat.

On 31/03/2020 15:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:00:38 -0700, petek wrote:

I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR
switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs.
The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume
they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Relays

Not usually required... (and many PIRs will have a relay on the output
anyway)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/03/2020 23:00, petek wrote:

Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

I have used several different types[1] without any difficulty. Including
some built into lamp fittings to switch both internal and external lamps.


[1] Including:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLPIR200B.html

and similar to:

https://www.toolstation.com/1800-pir-sensor/p11555



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks
Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks to you guys.
I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in parallel. How do I do this?

Pete

On 31/03/2020 23:22, petek wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2
PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches
triggers. I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find
any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2
way so I presume they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a
link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but
misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring
at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks
to you guys. I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but
Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in
parallel. How do I do this?

You may be able to download the manuals - but they may not mention it
either way. Chances are they will work just fine. (I have not found any
that did not)


If you look at the instructions for the TLC one I posted a link to:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...structions.pdf

the lower wiring diagram shows using a switch to provide an "always on"
bypass. So that will definitely work (it can't tell if the bypass switch
is a manual one or another PIR).

Here is another:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...witch/6016.pdf

Again bypass shown as a wiring option - making the PIR switched live
output live by external means.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/04/2020 02:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/03/2020 23:22, petek wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2
PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches
triggers. I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find
any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2
way so I presume they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a
link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but
misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring
at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks
to you guys. I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but
Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in
parallel. How do I do this?

You may be able to download the manuals - but they may not mention it
either way. Chances are they will work just fine. (I have not found any
that did not)


If you look at the instructions for the TLC one I posted a link to:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...structions.pdf


the lower wiring diagram shows using a switch to provide an "always on"
bypass. So that will definitely work (it can't tell if the bypass switch
is a manual one or another PIR).

Here is another:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...witch/6016.pdf

Again bypass shown as a wiring option - making the PIR switched live
output live by external means.



I agree (of course) but just to check that my memory wasn't /that/ far
gone I've dug back and found the ones I had to return (because I didn't
RTFM before buying) because the instns said they couldn't be wired in
parallel. Turns out they were 2-wire Clipsal 750WP. And it was even
longer ago than I'd thought.

http://www.hunters-wholesalers.co.uk/images/W507.pdf

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks
Pete

Thanks both. That's the next project sorted while I'm confined to barracks.
Stay safe and keep well.
Pete

On 01/04/2020 09:12, Robin wrote:
On 01/04/2020 02:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/03/2020 23:22, petek wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2
PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches
triggers. I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find
any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2
way so I presume they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a
link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but
misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring
at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks
to you guys. I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but
Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in
parallel. How do I do this?

You may be able to download the manuals - but they may not mention it
either way. Chances are they will work just fine. (I have not found
any that did not)


If you look at the instructions for the TLC one I posted a link to:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...structions.pdf


the lower wiring diagram shows using a switch to provide an "always
on" bypass. So that will definitely work (it can't tell if the bypass
switch is a manual one or another PIR).

Here is another:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...witch/6016.pdf

Again bypass shown as a wiring option - making the PIR switched live
output live by external means.



I agree (of course) but just to check that my memory wasn't /that/ far
gone I've dug back and found the ones I had to return (because I didn't
RTFM before buying) because the instns said they couldn't be wired in
parallel.Â* Turns out they were 2-wire Clipsal 750WP.Â* And it was even
longer ago than I'd thought.

http://www.hunters-wholesalers.co.uk/images/W507.pdf

Yup 2 wire is a different beast - with no neutral reference, it needs to
bleed a small current through the load even when "off" to allow it to
self power. If you make the output live externally, then it now has two
live connections and no neutral - in effect turning the non active
device completely off.

That may in practice still work after a fashion[1] - each being able to
turn the lights on - but you would lose that "wired OR" functionality
that would allow both devices to be triggered, and the lights only go
off when the last PIR reaches the end of its preset "on" time.

[1] however if the PIR is the type which turns the lamps on at power up,
then you would likely get them powering up and down in alternation for
ever more!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:18:42 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 01/04/2020 09:12, Robin wrote:
On 01/04/2020 02:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/03/2020 23:22, petek wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2
PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches
triggers. I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find
any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2
way so I presume they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a
link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but
misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring
at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks
to you guys. I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but
Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in
parallel. How do I do this?

You may be able to download the manuals - but they may not mention it
either way. Chances are they will work just fine. (I have not found
any that did not)


If you look at the instructions for the TLC one I posted a link to:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...structions.pdf


the lower wiring diagram shows using a switch to provide an "always
on" bypass. So that will definitely work (it can't tell if the bypass
switch is a manual one or another PIR).

Here is another:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...witch/6016.pdf

Again bypass shown as a wiring option - making the PIR switched live
output live by external means.



I agree (of course) but just to check that my memory wasn't /that/ far
gone I've dug back and found the ones I had to return (because I didn't
RTFM before buying) because the instns said they couldn't be wired in
parallel.* Turns out they were 2-wire Clipsal 750WP.* And it was even
longer ago than I'd thought.

http://www.hunters-wholesalers.co.uk/images/W507.pdf

Yup 2 wire is a different beast - with no neutral reference, it needs to
bleed a small current through the load even when "off" to allow it to
self power. If you make the output live externally, then it now has two
live connections and no neutral - in effect turning the non active
device completely off.

That may in practice still work after a fashion[1] - each being able to
turn the lights on - but you would lose that "wired OR" functionality
that would allow both devices to be triggered, and the lights only go
off when the last PIR reaches the end of its preset "on" time.

I don't know if this always applies: when deciding on a PIR I've looked for
it being OK with CFL, on the assumption that it has a relay.

[1] however if the PIR is the type which turns the lamps on at power up,
then you would likely get them powering up and down in alternation for
ever more!


--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 01/04/2020 13:05, PeterC wrote:
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:18:42 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 01/04/2020 09:12, Robin wrote:
On 01/04/2020 02:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/03/2020 23:22, petek wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2
PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches
triggers. I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find
any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2
way so I presume they must be 1 way. Can anyone recommend or post a
link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks Pete

Thanks to all for your comments and explanations. I saw the Wiki but
misunderstood the diagram. I thought it was similar to 2 way wiring
at the top/bottom of a staircase for example. I now understand thanks
to you guys. I like the look of the TLC ones mentioned by John but
Robin comments that I should check if they are suitable for wiring in
parallel. How do I do this?

You may be able to download the manuals - but they may not mention it
either way. Chances are they will work just fine. (I have not found
any that did not)


If you look at the instructions for the TLC one I posted a link to:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...structions.pdf


the lower wiring diagram shows using a switch to provide an "always
on" bypass. So that will definitely work (it can't tell if the bypass
switch is a manual one or another PIR).

Here is another:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...witch/6016.pdf

Again bypass shown as a wiring option - making the PIR switched live
output live by external means.



I agree (of course) but just to check that my memory wasn't /that/ far
gone I've dug back and found the ones I had to return (because I didn't
RTFM before buying) because the instns said they couldn't be wired in
parallel.Â* Turns out they were 2-wire Clipsal 750WP.Â* And it was even
longer ago than I'd thought.

http://www.hunters-wholesalers.co.uk/images/W507.pdf

Yup 2 wire is a different beast - with no neutral reference, it needs to
bleed a small current through the load even when "off" to allow it to
self power. If you make the output live externally, then it now has two
live connections and no neutral - in effect turning the non active
device completely off.

That may in practice still work after a fashion[1] - each being able to
turn the lights on - but you would lose that "wired OR" functionality
that would allow both devices to be triggered, and the lights only go
off when the last PIR reaches the end of its preset "on" time.

I don't know if this always applies: when deciding on a PIR I've looked for
it being OK with CFL, on the assumption that it has a relay.

Yup, that's usually a safe bet. While being CFL compatible does not
guarantee it has a relay as such (i.e. it could use a triac output stage
to switch the load) - it indicates that it does not draw its own power
through the load, which is the potential show stopper here (pun possibly
intended!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:00:42 PM UTC+1, petek wrote:
I'm hoping to install 3 outside LED light fittings controlled by 2 PIR switches - all lights to come on if either of the switches triggers.
I've done a cursory search on t'internet but can't find any 2 way PIRs. The ones I've seen don't mention if they are 1 or 2 way so I presume they must be 1 way.
Can anyone recommend or post a link to a suitable 2 way PIR?

Thanks
Pete

Just to finish off this topic, I've installed the lights and sensors and they're working fine. Really pleased with the result. I used the Pir's suggested by John from TLC and some LED downlights from them also. Ordered them last Monday at 1.00pm 'ish and they were delivered The following day at 10.30am 'ish, on their standard delivery service. Excellent service from TLC and DHL in these difficult times.
Thanks again to all.
Pete