I am getting to the end of an extension to create a 'family room' - an open-plan kitchen/diner/lounge and am wondering what best to do about smoke/heat alarms.... Given the risk of false alarms I understand that a heat alarm is most appropriate for a kitchen however do they still perform adequately in a large room (9m x 5m)? There will be a defined kitchen area and so I was going to locate it there - perhaps above / to the side of the hob+oven?

Or should I be looking at something else? (Maybe some sort of best-of-both-worlds combined affair that I might not be aware of?)

The rest of the house used interlinked Aico alarms and so they would be my starting point, and perhaps finishing point too if alarms from different manufacturers cannot be mixed.

On Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:07:44 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
I am getting to the end of an extension to create a 'family room' - an
open-plan kitchen/diner/lounge and am wondering what best to do about
smoke/heat alarms....

Do you have a ceiling beam between the two areas - if so you will need separate detectors anyway.

IMHO unless you have smoke-stop doors to a kitchen a smoke detector outside the kitchen is likely to activate before a heat detector in the kitchen anyway.

Aico do remote hush/desensitise switches so one near the cooker may minimise the inconvenience and risk of any false alarms.

Owain

On Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:07:44 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:

I am getting to the end of an extension to create a 'family room' - an open-plan kitchen/diner/lounge and am wondering what best to do about smoke/heat alarms.... Given the risk of false alarms I understand that a heat alarm is most appropriate for a kitchen however do they still perform adequately in a large room (9m x 5m)? There will be a defined kitchen area and so I was going to locate it there - perhaps above / to the side of the hob+oven?

Or should I be looking at something else? (Maybe some sort of best-of-both-worlds combined affair that I might not be aware of?)

The rest of the house used interlinked Aico alarms and so they would be my starting point, and perhaps finishing point too if alarms from different manufacturers cannot be mixed.

Heat alarms should be near the cooker as the most likely source of fire. They are of course the slowest type to detect, using rate of rise rather than fixed temp helps but they're still slow. 9m is far enough to also use an ionisation alarm as a warning - positioned correctly it'll alarm before any fire when things get to the point of needing attention, ie smoking cooking. Sensitivity with ionisation alarms depends strongly on how far they are from the cooking.


NT

On 02/02/2020 20:07, Mathew Newton wrote:
I am getting to the end of an extension to create a 'family room' - an open-plan kitchen/diner/lounge and am wondering what best to do about smoke/heat alarms.... Given the risk of false alarms I understand that a heat alarm is most appropriate for a kitchen however do they still perform adequately in a large room (9m x 5m)? There will be a defined kitchen area and so I was going to locate it there - perhaps above / to the side of the hob+oven?

Or should I be looking at something else? (Maybe some sort of best-of-both-worlds combined affair that I might not be aware of?)

The rest of the house used interlinked Aico alarms and so they would be my starting point, and perhaps finishing point too if alarms from different manufacturers cannot be mixed.

I've NEVER had a false alarm since I swopped my ionizing one for a
photoelectric...end of story .....

On Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:37:01 UTC, wrote:

Do you have a ceiling beam between the two areas - if so you will need separate detectors anyway.

There is a beam but it's recessed so completely flat throughout.

IMHO unless you have smoke-stop doors to a kitchen a smoke detector outside the kitchen is likely to activate before a heat detector in the kitchen anyway.

There is indeed an ionisation alarm in the hall and so perhaps that might help 'fill the gap', as it were, of fires that the heat alarm might fail to detect whilst not suffering too many false alarms due to being too near the cooking area.

Aico do remote hush/desensitise switches so one near the cooker may minimise the inconvenience and risk of any false alarms.

Yes, I remember Adam mentioning them when he wired our hob in. I think at the time I was assuming all the alarms had to be wired back to the unit in a hub-and-spoke type arrangement but looking it up I see it just connects up to the chain like another alarm would. I think I might get one as with seven alarms it could prove convenient.

On 04/02/2020 00:14, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:37:01 UTC, wrote:

Do you have a ceiling beam between the two areas - if so you will need separate detectors anyway.

There is a beam but it's recessed so completely flat throughout.

IMHO unless you have smoke-stop doors to a kitchen a smoke detector outside the kitchen is likely to activate before a heat detector in the kitchen anyway.

There is indeed an ionisation alarm in the hall and so perhaps that might help 'fill the gap', as it were, of fires that the heat alarm might fail to detect whilst not suffering too many false alarms due to being too near the cooking area.

Aico do remote hush/desensitise switches so one near the cooker may minimise the inconvenience and risk of any false alarms.

Yes, I remember Adam mentioning them when he wired our hob in. I think at the time I was assuming all the alarms had to be wired back to the unit in a hub-and-spoke type arrangement but looking it up I see it just connects up to the chain like another alarm would. I think I might get one as with seven alarms it could prove convenient.


Star or daisy chain wiring is OK.

The switch I mentioned is

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?

It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.

Best bet is to use separate smoke and heat alarms with the smoke as far
away from the kitchen part as possible.

PS I am chasing up what you need off me.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?
It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.

Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?

On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:44:34 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?
It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.
Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?

Aico is EI

https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei152...ontrol-switch/

AFAIK the app doesn't control the alarms, but can download some event history by listening to audio beeps from some detectors.

Owain

On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:16:09 UTC, ARW wrote:

The switch I mentioned is

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?

Yes, I think I'm going to fit one under the stairs. The 'locate' feature sounds particularly useful. A house full of blaring smoke alarms doesn't half cause something of a panic, but then I guess that's what they're for!

PS I am chasing up what you need off me.

Thanks Adam! :-) (There's still no urgency as I'm still not finished!)

On 05/02/2020 19:44, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html? It will not NOT
desensitise any smokes.

Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?


As Owain said and Ei stands for Emerald Isles.

However the Ei450 is a wireless version that is better looking and
actually tells you if it is CO or fire .but has the risks associated
with wireless.

The app is probably of little use to most people.

It will tell you the status of the battery, how many times the alarms
has been removed from the base and if the last alarm activation eg had
the CO detector gone off when you were not in.

I use it for the Scout Hut in case people mess with it. Landlords might
also find it useful.

And https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei100...tlink-gateway/
is a new one one me. Never seen that before.

They also do relay bases should you want to monitor if the alarms are
sounding and switch stuff off. ISTR Matthew uses one to turn his heat
recovery system off in the event of a fire alarm.


--
Adam

On 05/02/2020 22:28, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:16:09 UTC, ARW wrote:

The switch I mentioned is

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?

Yes, I think I'm going to fit one under the stairs. The 'locate' feature sounds particularly useful. A house full of blaring smoke alarms doesn't half cause something of a panic, but then I guess that's what they're for!


One upstairs might also be useful if the alarms go off in the middle of
the night and you get out of bed and are still half asleep..

You can use wireless if a cable run is award. That would also require an
rf base to be fitted to an existing smoke.


--
Adam

On Thursday, 6 February 2020 17:30:44 UTC, ARW wrote:

They also do relay bases should you want to monitor if the alarms are
sounding and switch stuff off. ISTR Matthew uses one to turn his heat
recovery system off in the event of a fire alarm.

Yes, and sends me a text too now! That'd be a scary one to receive, but it does help allay the 'Has my house burnt down?' thoughts I seem to sometimes get when I'm away on holiday!

On Thursday, 6 February 2020 17:38:52 UTC, ARW wrote:

One upstairs might also be useful if the alarms go off in the middle of
the night and you get out of bed and are still half asleep..

Now that's a good idea.

You can use wireless if a cable run is awkward.

It's not too difficult in this house - one advantage to dot-and-dab walls I suppose!

On Thursday, 6 February 2020 17:38:52 UTC, ARW wrote:
One upstairs might also be useful if the alarms go off in the middle of
the night and you get out of bed and are still half asleep..

I'm not sure pressing the snooze button for an extra 10 minutes' kip is a good idea in that scenario.

Owain

On 03/02/2020 04:13, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:07:44 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:

I am getting to the end of an extension to create a 'family room' - an open-plan kitchen/diner/lounge and am wondering what best to do about smoke/heat alarms.... Given the risk of false alarms I understand that a heat alarm is most appropriate for a kitchen however do they still perform adequately in a large room (9m x 5m)? There will be a defined kitchen area and so I was going to locate it there - perhaps above / to the side of the hob+oven?

Or should I be looking at something else? (Maybe some sort of best-of-both-worlds combined affair that I might not be aware of?)

The rest of the house used interlinked Aico alarms and so they would be my starting point, and perhaps finishing point too if alarms from different manufacturers cannot be mixed.

Heat alarms should be near the cooker as the most likely source of fire. They are of course the slowest type to detect, using rate of rise rather than fixed temp helps but they're still slow. 9m is far enough to also use an ionisation alarm as a warning - positioned correctly it'll alarm before any fire when things get to the point of needing attention, ie smoking cooking. Sensitivity with ionisation alarms depends strongly on how far they are from the cooking.

A rate of rise detector near a cooker or oven is no good.

The smoke should be optical.




--
Adam

On 05/02/2020 21:51, wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:44:34 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?
It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.
Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?

Aico is EI

https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei152...ontrol-switch/

AFAIK the app doesn't control the alarms, but can download some event history by listening to audio beeps from some detectors.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/72/CO.jpg

That's from the CO detector I bought Lou for Valentines day:-)

She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker.
The plastic handle on the grille pan melted and she was falling asleep
on the settee in the lounge when it went off.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.


--
Adam

On Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:16:52 UTC, ARW wrote:
She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker.

That's why I like a "big red switch" with a neon on the cooker.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.

Did that meet with more or less favour than the boots?

(Assuming they were for her.)

I think this year Screwfix's Valentines Day special is a mixer shower.

Owain

On 08/02/2020 16:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:16:52 UTC, ARW wrote:
She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker.

That's why I like a "big red switch" with a neon on the cooker.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.

Did that meet with more or less favour than the boots?

(Assuming they were for her.)

I think this year Screwfix's Valentines Day special is a mixer shower.



She mentioned something about a new light fitting in the lounge.





--
Adam

In article , ARW
writes
On 05/02/2020 21:51, wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:44:34 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?
It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.
Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?
Aico is EI

https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei152...ontrol-switch/
AFAIK the app doesn't control the alarms, but can download some
event history by listening to audio beeps from some detectors.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/72/CO.jpg

That's from the CO detector I bought Lou for Valentines day:-)

She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker.
The plastic handle on the grille pan melted and she was falling asleep
on the settee in the lounge when it went off.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.


Generous to a fault.
--
bert

In article , ARW
writes
On 08/02/2020 16:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:16:52 UTC, ARW wrote:
She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker.
That's why I like a "big red switch" with a neon on the cooker.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.
Did that meet with more or less favour than the boots?
(Assuming they were for her.)
I think this year Screwfix's Valentines Day special is a mixer
shower.



She mentioned something about a new light fitting in the lounge.





£1.59 in Screwfix although you will do doubt claim the vat back.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/6-pendant...74J&ds_kid=927
00048793290388&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=CjwKCAiA-P7xBRAvEiwAow-VaZbnfFLCzU53qo
TsxcUYV0pskZAZkzSe1BhF2LlyQAAHwyis1aLI7BoCAVMQAvD_ BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
--
bert

"bert" wrote in message
news
In article , ARW
writes
On 05/02/2020 21:51, wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:44:34 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
The switch I mentioned is
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EI1529RC.html?
It will not NOT desensitise any smokes.
Is there any similar switch for the aico smoke/heat alarms, or did you
way something about a phone app for them?
Aico is EI
https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei152...ontrol-switch/
AFAIK the app doesn't control the alarms, but can download some event
history by listening to audio beeps from some detectors.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/72/CO.jpg

That's from the CO detector I bought Lou for Valentines day:-)

She left the grill on after cooking and closed the door on the cooker. The
plastic handle on the grille pan melted and she was falling asleep on the
settee in the lounge when it went off.

I buy her all the best presents. Last year she got a USB socket for
Valentines day and free installation.


Generous to a fault.

With his sexual favours too.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:40:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Generous to a fault.

With his sexual favours too.

Not as generous as you are with your idiotic trolling night and day, you
abnormal sleepless senile troll!

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID: