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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:35:18 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).


Can they recycle them?


Apparently, yes.

Haven't they just been shamed providing one use packaging and as a PR
exercise they are now accepting the packaging back for disposal to
landfill or incineration?


Apparently no.

What is it with you fanatic brexiteers and your cognitive bias issues?

Cheers, T i m

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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:58:25 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU
that we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't
be recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to
export it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate
power in a purpose build incinerator.


Cite?

Chances are this is just more fanatic Brexiteer made up BS and FUD.

Cheers, T i m

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Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been
going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?


I wish Lush would stop putting bits of sparkly plastic in their bath
bombs. They get everywhere when my missus uses them. She doesn't
actually buy them, but some people think they make a nice present.
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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 00:50:36 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

And if it wasn't actually up to everyone's knees, would the litterers
simply use it as an excuse to litter more freely?


For sure. It'll just keep getting dirtier for a while. But then the outcry will be such that a percentage of people will be ready to pounce/snitch on litterers.


You would like to think but I believe people are often more wary to
trying to get others to 'do the right thing' now because of their OTT
reaction.

Then organise a volunteer cleanup crew.


That's already done there most days (in the summer).


I would be up for more signs reminding people that it was *their* park
(simply being maintained by the Council on behalf of the people of the
borough) and so they might respect their space by not littering etc
but again, that might make some people worse (If it's mine I can
litter it if I want).


The problem is largely people that have no respect for anything or anyone. They don't care.


Agreed. ;-(


Providing more bins is a good solution to those who might use them
(and keep an eye on their kids dropping litter) or they will be abused
(to an even greater degree) by people clearing their cars out into the
park bins.

Many don't see / read the (many) closing time signs (meaning they get
locked in and getting the Park Guards out to let them out) so I'm
guessing they wouldn't see the litter bins / signs either. ;-(


so what. Make it difficult for them to find the guards & they'll learn not to do that next time.


Oh they do. They often close all the main gates at the closing time,
do a(nother) sweep of the park and then get back to the main entrance
and have to deal with a percentage of people shouting and screaming
that they were 'locked in' and suggesting they were there well before
the closing time. If they don't lock the gates they often find even
more people have come in when they get back! The Council employees
usually just point to the CCTV camera and suggest they contact the
Council if they have any issues. That said, 'most people' are
apologetic. [1]

Give the guards jacket mounted cameras


I believe they already wear them.

Some parks have electrically operated gates so who would the tardy /
inconsiderate have to moan at then?

And I wonder if they would also expect their holiday plane / train to
wait for them ... or be as slow to get out if you told them there was
a bomb / sniper / leopard in the park? ;-)

& fine or ban people (a worm of cans in itself).


I believe fining either is an option or can be applied in repeat cases
but it is (as you say), a can of worms. It's a similar case when
collecting stray dogs, finding them unchipped and giving them back to
the owners. They do insist that they are chipped but I think there are
restrictions on (say) the council insisting or having the dog chipped
themselves (without the owners consent). And how many dog owners have
been fined the 500 pounds for not having their dogs chipped (and / or
keeping that data up to date). ;-(


They even stand by the signs suggesting people didn't feed the
wildfowl bread (and why), emptying a whole loaf into the pond.


maybe they don't agree.


Whilst they might not, they would be wrong.

I thin they may need to have some sort of pass where you have to read,
agree to and sign a declaration agreeing to the terms of the park
before they are allowed entry, then they couldn't say they 'didn't
realise' etc.


they agree to clearly displayed terms anyway. Let them agree to being fined.


Good point. I'm assuming ignorance of the park byelaws (that are
clearly posted at each entrance) would be no defence? eg, You accept
them by just entering the park?

Cheers, T i m

[1] The funniest ones a

"It took me longer than I though because of my elderly parent / dog."

So, they became 'old' during the time they spent in the park, they
weren't already old (and slow) when you brought them in here?

"It took me longer because of the kids:" (some bizarre reason that
never include anything that justifies anything).

The frustrating thing is even when they are 'jollied up' by the
wardens, politely reminding / informing them the gates will be locked
*at* Xpm, some people still make no effort to get a wriggle on.
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On 24/01/2020 10:30, T i m wrote:

Then that depends on the overall footprint of each.

eg, It could well be that the 'fake milk' requires a faction of the
space to produce (compared with cows milk), a fraction of the water
and actually produces far less of the worst greenhouse gasses (methane
V CO2), then we may all still be better off overall (and no cow
hormones in fake milk for example).

https://www.alpro.com/uk/products/dr.../oat-original/



How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?

Factor in the destruction of the soil structure by constantly growing
crops. Leaving the ground fallow and growing grass for a couple of years
and then using grazing animals for maintenance during this time may be
beneficial for the country.

It may be impractical to plant crops when the whole of the countryside
is full of wind and solar farms.


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On Thursday, 23 January 2020 14:42:54 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 21:10:32 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...




I'm also cutting down on my meat intake

Why ?


After a friend that loved his meat, always ate large amounts died of
bowel cancer in his 40s.... His wife used to tell he he used to read a
chapter of a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap.... and
that I've never really been a fan of steaks, and chops didn't like the
fatty or chewy bits even as a kid, and the cruelty in obtaining some of
these meats, and the effect of large aminal populations sustained for
food, and the methane they produce. And of cours ethe size of fat
americans and how they like their meat. I saw a coup,e on the tube that
had difficulty seating on a single seat !. I just decided to cut down.


Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that I genuinely like and
prefer to the meat versions. Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)


https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0


trouble is I can eat a box of the above with, either garlic mayo or
beetroot ketchup and a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.


I doubt this practice is exaclty healthy but you only live once or so
some say.


Cats have 9 lives


Only the cats used for whipping sailors, as the whips had 9 tails.
Not that I know much about whipping sailors that's a differnt
type of DIY :-)




--
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"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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On Thursday, 23 January 2020 18:06:24 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote


I'm also cutting down on my meat intake


Why ?


After a friend that loved his meat, always ate
large amounts died of bowel cancer in his 40s....


Thats mad unless you also ate large amounts of meat.


So you confirm that meat is the cause ?
He was also a motor cycle courier, so spent a lot of time on his arse
on a motor bike 10 hours or so a day.


His wife used to tell he he used to read a chapter of
a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap....


Not surprising that bowel cancer can have downsides.


The NHS sends out tests as there are early warning signs.
There must be a reason.



and that I've never really been a fan of steaks,


Its just one type of meat.


Yes I know. But is it the meat or the chemicals used in the mass processing
of that meat, which can cause other cancers.




and chops didn't like the fatty or chewy bits even as a kid,


Ditto.

and the cruelty in obtaining some of these meats,


So eat the meat that doesnt involve any cruelty.


Difficult to find out, unless you visit the slaughter house or farm.
Even more difficult in large cities like London.
Or yuo trust the suppliers, but if teh supliers can;t tell a horse
from a cow ....


and the effect of large aminal populations sustained
for food, and the methane they produce.


Climate has changed much more due to other factors.


No not according to the lasted news and research.
It's not just methane which is far worse than CO2 it's the urine
getting back into the water system, and then the transportation.



And of cours ethe size of fat americans
and how they like their meat.


No reason why anyone has to pig out like they do.


True, but it's getting similar here, when you see the state of the arses waddling out of burger and fast food outlets.
I see kids at lunchtime filling themselves up with KFC etc...
I never did that and can't work out how they can afford it either.

Although a wing and chips for a quid isn't bad I guess.


I saw a coup,e on the tube that had
difficulty seating on a single seat !.


Mate of mine was like that. But it wasnt due to the meat he ate.


There can be many reasons but when it's a 10 year-old kids I think
there might be a connection between eating and fatness.

They can't all use the excuse they are training to be sumo wrestlers
or rap stars.

Anoher fact is that during WWII due to rationing the UK city populations
were healtheir than they are today, apart from being killed by bombs that is.



I just decided to cut down.


Mad.


Logical.


Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that
I genuinely like and prefer to the meat versions.


I havent found anything much. Toasted cheese on toast
is about it and I havent had that for about a decade now.


Why not, I have cheese and vegan ham tosted sandwhiches, I don't miss
the 'real' ham other than not having to spit out the bits of solid fat or bone.


Just bought some cheese yesterday but havent eaten
any of it yet and dont plan to eat it that often.


I like various cheeses, there;s loads of choice in most supermarkets here.
Brie is nice with cranberry sauce and I like chedder with beetroot ketchup.
But swap them over and it just tatses weird.
I like whisky & cock but not whisky and orange like a friend likes.
The only time I lioke Jack daniels is with coke, I can't drink it neat.
But other whiskies (scotch) I don't like with coke.
But if bought for me I'll drink it, but I won't buy it.






Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)


https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0


I do eat one version of Gozleme which has no meat
but alternate it with the other that does, from Aldi.


Then aldi version of the Red pepper and feta cheese rolls is horrible,
sure 35% cheaper but so bad I had to throw them away I could eat them.


trouble is I can eat a box of the above with,
either garlic mayo or beetroot ketchup and
a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.


Thats why you are as fat as the worst yanks.


I'm not fat but have put on about 2KG since May 2019.
but this month lost 0.3KG

according to this my BMI is 24.5

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy...mi-calculator/


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alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 10:30, T i m wrote:

Then that depends on the overall footprint of each.

eg, It could well be that the 'fake milk' requires a faction of the
space to produce (compared with cows milk), a fraction of the water
and actually produces far less of the worst greenhouse gasses (methane
V CO2), then we may all still be better off overall (and no cow
hormones in fake milk for example).

https://www.alpro.com/uk/products/dr.../oat-original/



How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?


Because they use apple juice in the sweetened ones instead of solid
suger. You may feel this is sophistry.


Factor in the destruction of the soil structure by constantly growing
crops. Leaving the ground fallow and growing grass for a couple of years
and then using grazing animals for maintenance during this time may be
beneficial for the country.

It may be impractical to plant crops when the whole of the countryside
is full of wind and solar farms.



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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 24/01/2020 10:30, T i m wrote:

Then that depends on the overall footprint of each.

eg, It could well be that the 'fake milk' requires a faction of the
space to produce (compared with cows milk), a fraction of the water
and actually produces far less of the worst greenhouse gasses (methane
V CO2), then we may all still be better off overall (and no cow
hormones in fake milk for example).

https://www.alpro.com/uk/products/dr.../oat-original/



How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?


You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"

Do you think they *add* lactose to cows milk?

(And they let these people vote ... rolls eyes). ;-(


Factor in the destruction of the soil structure by constantly growing
crops.


Of course.

Leaving the ground fallow and growing grass for a couple of years
and then using grazing animals for maintenance during this time may be
beneficial for the country.


But it may not, if grazing animals (even if also for milk or meat
production) takes up say 20x the land in the first place and produce
loads more methane (than say a combine harvester produces CO2).

It may be impractical to plant crops when the whole of the countryside
is full of wind


Makes no difference.

and solar farms.


Whilst they are planting crops under solar farms (agrivoltaics), solar
farms may be better positioned on land that may not be idea for
growing crops in the first place (inaccessible by big machines, rocky,
dry or contaminated).

Cheers, T i m

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On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:


How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?


You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"


So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.


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On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:29:28 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2020 00:05, tabbypurr wrote:

afaik they aren't recyclable. They're plastic & ali & grease, plus who knows what in the odd one.


But according to one green campaigner on TV a few months back you are
meant to wash them out using hot water and detergent! More CO2 to
recycle than to manufacture and distribute in the first place.


more importantly an entirely insane waste of people's time.


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On Friday, 24 January 2020 13:24:55 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 18:06:24 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote


Anoher fact is that during WWII due to rationing the UK city populations
were healtheir than they are today, apart from being killed by bombs that is.


Myth. They were on average healthier than in 39, but we live a good bit longer today than in the 40s.


I like whisky & cock


I think I've read enough.
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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 14:30:20 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:


How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?


You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"


So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?


Oh, you really are thick, or just trolling?

Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?


It's not *added* is it you nutjob, it's there already! (FFS!).


You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.


Oh dear oh dear. Back to your cognitive bias problem again? ;-(

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...sh/unsweetened

"unsweetened: with no sugar or other sweet substances added:"

How difficult life must be (or easy as they are always right
irrespective of how much the facts contradict them) for the left
brainers ... ;-(

That means no ADDITIONAL sugars have been added (in any form).

Sheesh ... and they let these people vote ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m
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On Friday, 24 January 2020 15:22:42 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 13:24:55 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 18:06:24 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote


Anoher fact is that during WWII due to rationing the UK city populations
were healtheir than they are today, apart from being killed by bombs that is.


Myth. They were on average healthier than in 39, but we live a good bit longer today than in the 40s.


That's because of the NHS and other things such as H&S NOT health.

People rarely die in the construction industry now or in mining or fishing.


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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 07:18:07 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:29:28 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2020 00:05, tabbypurr wrote:

afaik they aren't recyclable. They're plastic & ali & grease, plus who knows what in the odd one.


But according to one green campaigner on TV a few months back you are
meant to wash them out using hot water and detergent! More CO2 to
recycle than to manufacture and distribute in the first place.


more importantly an entirely insane waste of people's time.


Assuming it is as he said, and of course it isn't.

It seems to be disconnection between things that get's people
confused.

Like, if you buy a bag of crisps you are (or should be) taking
responsibility for it, including how you dispose of it. If there is a
facility that disposes of it in a less environmentally damaging way,
then you should make reasonable efforts to do that.

You chose to buy / take / eat it, you then have to dispose of it
properly.

Now, if you can't engineer it to say drop a wodge of crisp packets
into a local drop off point, as part of your normal journey then maybe
you shouldn't buy them in the first place.

The various governments are now making manufacturers factor the
efficient disposal / recycling into their products and some are
obliged to accept products back when we have finished with them (a
feature we have already paid for of course).

See, for too long (since we were all generally well off) we have been
buying stuff with no regard what will happen to it when we are
finished with it and many have been happy to just 'throw stuff away'
when often there isn't such a place. So that means stuff has to be
stored (tyres / fridges), burned or buried in a hole in the ground,
all of which have come back to haunt us.

What would be better is to not buy the thing in the first place,
repair it if it goes wrong, re-purpose it into something else / useful
or recycle it in it's core components (so it can be recycled more
efficiently). And we can consider how recyclable a single use
container might be when we buy something.

Like, you can buy dog food dried in bulk, wet in tins or wet in
plastic pouches. From a quantity and recyclability POV, the plastic
pouches are worse than the tins and large paper sacks.

Cheers, T i m
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whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote


I'm also cutting down on my meat intake


Why ?


After a friend that loved his meat, always ate
large amounts died of bowel cancer in his 40s....


Thats mad unless you also ate large amounts of meat.


So you confirm that meat is the cause ?


No I dont. Its much more likely to be a genetic
problem with cancer at that age. Happened to
a mate of mine too, also died of cancer at that
age. Turned out that his brother had died of it
as a young child and his dad died of cancer too.

He was also a motor cycle courier, so spent a lot of
time on his arse on a motor bike 10 hours or so a day.


And breathed lots of car fumes too.

His wife used to tell he he used to read a chapter of
a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap....


Not surprising that bowel cancer can have downsides.


The NHS sends out tests


Not to people of that age they dont.

as there are early warning signs.
There must be a reason.


But no evidence that its a lifestyle
cause with cancer at that age.

and that I've never really been a fan of steaks,


Its just one type of meat.


Yes I know. But is it the meat or the chemicals used in the
mass processing of that meat, which can cause other cancers.


There is no mass processing of meat like steaks.

and chops didn't like the fatty or chewy bits even as a kid,


Ditto.


and the cruelty in obtaining some of these meats,


So eat the meat that doesnt involve any cruelty.


Difficult to find out, unless you visit the slaughter house or farm.


Nope, plenty of the 'animal rights' fools do that all the time.

Even more difficult in large cities like London.


But easy enough to get your meat from sources
that go out of their way to eliminate any cruelty
with the animals they supply for you to eat. In
fact much easier in London because there is
a much bigger market for meat like that there.

Or yuo trust the suppliers, but if teh
supliers can;t tell a horse from a cow ....


The best of the specialist meat suppliers know
that there is no possibility of any horses ever
having been in their sources of meat.

and the effect of large aminal populations sustained
for food, and the methane they produce.


Climate has changed much more due to other factors.


No not according to the lasted news and research.


Thats bull**** with the ice ages alone.

It's not just methane which is far worse than CO2
it's the urine getting back into the water system,


Trivial to only eat meat from a source where that
doesnt happen.

and then the transportation.


Ditto, trivial to only eat meat
which is transported after its dead.

And of cours ethe size of fat americans
and how they like their meat.


No reason why anyone has to pig out like they do.


True, but it's getting similar here, when
you see the state of the arses waddling
out of burger and fast food outlets.


Doesnt mean that you have to pig out like that yourself.

I see kids at lunchtime filling themselves up with KFC etc...


Ditto.

I never did that and can't work out how they can afford it either.


They can afford it because its very cheap food now and
living standards are much better than when you were a kid.

Although a wing and chips for a quid isn't bad I guess.


Yep, thats the reason, its very cheap now in real terms.

I saw a coup,e on the tube that had
difficulty seating on a single seat !.


Mate of mine was like that. But it wasnt due to the meat he ate.


There can be many reasons


There is just one reason, shovelling far more calories
into your mouth every day than you burn.

In his case it was high calorie stuff like cream puffs and
**** like that. He was part of the group that used to
migrate to a camping ground in out far north every
winter in their RVs and spend the winter playing gin rummy
and getting ****ed and swatting sand flys and midges.

They used to migrate in convoy every year and
stop for tea and coffee in towns along the way.
The trip takes days each way. He used to make
a bee line for the cake shop in each town, buy
dozens of cream puffs and when few of the
others ate any, scoff the lot every time.

He had always been by far the most obese person
I had ever known although I have seen more
morbidly obese people in docos, usually yanks.
He always revelled in the name Huge.

Very big bloke, quite apart from being morbidly
obese. One time he managed to fall back behind
his bed and it took 10 of the ambos and SES
people to get him back on his feet.

And he needed a special massive great ambulance
from Sydney every time he needed an ambulance.

but when it's a 10 year-old kids I think there might
be a connection between eating and fatness.


Corse there is, but it isnt eating meat. Its calories that matter.

They can't all use the excuse they are
training to be sumo wrestlers or rap stars.


Anoher fact is that during WWII due to rationing
the UK city populations were healtheir than they
are today, apart from being killed by bombs that is.


Yep, but that wasnt due to eating less meat.

I just decided to cut down.


Mad.


Logical.


Not when there is no evidence that bowel cancer
in a 40 year old is due to the amount of meat he ate.

Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that
I genuinely like and prefer to the meat versions.


I havent found anything much. Toasted cheese on toast
is about it and I havent had that for about a decade now.


Why not,


Doesnt appeal to me as much as a roast leg of lamb, steak etc.

I have cheese and vegan ham tosted sandwhiches,


I dont have a cooked breakfast, just a ****ing great
slab of my multigrain toast and my marmalade.

No lunch at all, just a couple of nectarines at most
in the nectarine season and that only lasts a couple
of months. Thats the main reason I dont eat much
of that type of food, just proper dinners most days.

I don't miss the 'real' ham other than not
having to spit out the bits of solid fat or bone.


I would. I have a massive great open sandwich
for the main meal on the days I make the new
loaf of bread in the bread machine and that is
every 4 days. I have some form of meat on that,
usually usually a few slices of cold roast lamb
or hot salami, with my own relish and lettuce.

Had one last night, real leg lamb from the
deli for a bit of variety, no fat or bone. With
a big slice of cheese from the deli and the
hot chutney from South Africa that Aldi does
as a special buy a couple of times a year.

Just bought some cheese yesterday but havent eaten
any of it yet and dont plan to eat it that often.


I like various cheeses, there;s loads of choice in most supermarkets here.


Same here, dozens of them.

Brie is nice


Yeah I got some camembert at the same time.

with cranberry sauce


I prefer mine with just a biscuit, Not a main meal tho.

and I like chedder with beetroot ketchup.


Never been at all keen on beetroot. I always
remove it from burgers and dont add it to
the burgers I make.

But swap them over and it just tatses weird.


I like whisky & cock but not whisky
and orange like a friend likes.


I have mine neat, no ice or water or anything added.

The only time I lioke Jack daniels is with coke,


I dont ever drink mixed drinks except G&T

I can't drink it neat.


I can but prefer scotch by far.
Or Irish whisky like Tullamore Dew,

But other whiskies (scotch) I don't like with coke.


I never add anything to scotch.

But if bought for me I'll drink it, but I won't buy it.


I almost never drink in pubs etc.

Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)


https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0


I do eat one version of Gozleme which has no meat
but alternate it with the other that does, from Aldi.


Then aldi version of the Red pepper and feta cheese rolls is horrible,


Yeah they vary, some are good, some arent.

Just watch the doco on Aldi where some posh woman
had a flash dinner for her posh friends. She claimed to
them that some was from Aldi and some wasnt and got
them to pick which was from Aldi. In fact it was all from
Aldi and they were amazed at the stuff they did like.

sure 35% cheaper but so bad I had
to throw them away I could eat them.


Never had that myself. Some like their drumstick
equivalent is quite edible but I prefer the real thing.
http://www.peters.com.au/brands/drumstick/

Their frozen peas and corn is fine but they only
sell it in two separate packs, I prefer to be lazy
and use the birdseye mix. Out supermarkets
regularly do half priced specials so I have a full
roll out drawer in the massive great vertical
frost free freezer full of it and its only marginally
more expensive than from aldi that way.
http://birdseye.com.au/our-range/fro...-capsicum-500g

trouble is I can eat a box of the above with,
either garlic mayo or beetroot ketchup and
a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.


Thats why you are as fat as the worst yanks.


I'm not fat but have put on about 2KG since May 2019.
but this month lost 0.3KG


according to this my BMI is 24.5

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy...mi-calculator/


I'm always in the ideal BMI range.



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"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU that
we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't be
recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to export
it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate power in a
purpose build incinerator.


But it makes much more sense to have your own
purpose built incinerators in the UK and avoid the
stupid cost of carting it to scandinavia.

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"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 00:50:36 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

And if it wasn't actually up to everyone's knees, would the litterers
simply use it as an excuse to litter more freely?


For sure. It'll just keep getting dirtier for a while. But then the outcry
will be such that a percentage of people will be ready to pounce/snitch on
litterers.


You would like to think but I believe people are often more wary to
trying to get others to 'do the right thing' now because of their OTT
reaction.

Then organise a volunteer cleanup crew.


That's already done there most days (in the summer).


I would be up for more signs reminding people that it was *their* park
(simply being maintained by the Council on behalf of the people of the
borough) and so they might respect their space by not littering etc
but again, that might make some people worse (If it's mine I can
litter it if I want).


The problem is largely people that have no respect for anything or anyone.
They don't care.


Agreed. ;-(


Providing more bins is a good solution to those who might use them
(and keep an eye on their kids dropping litter) or they will be abused
(to an even greater degree) by people clearing their cars out into the
park bins.

Many don't see / read the (many) closing time signs (meaning they get
locked in and getting the Park Guards out to let them out) so I'm
guessing they wouldn't see the litter bins / signs either. ;-(


so what. Make it difficult for them to find the guards & they'll learn not
to do that next time.


Oh they do. They often close all the main gates at the closing time,
do a(nother) sweep of the park and then get back to the main entrance
and have to deal with a percentage of people shouting and screaming
that they were 'locked in' and suggesting they were there well before
the closing time. If they don't lock the gates they often find even
more people have come in when they get back! The Council employees
usually just point to the CCTV camera and suggest they contact the
Council if they have any issues. That said, 'most people' are
apologetic. [1]

Give the guards jacket mounted cameras


I believe they already wear them.

Some parks have electrically operated gates so who would the tardy /
inconsiderate have to moan at then?

And I wonder if they would also expect their holiday plane / train to
wait for them ... or be as slow to get out if you told them there was
a bomb / sniper / leopard in the park? ;-)

& fine or ban people (a worm of cans in itself).


I believe fining either is an option or can be applied in repeat cases
but it is (as you say), a can of worms. It's a similar case when
collecting stray dogs, finding them unchipped and giving them back to
the owners. They do insist that they are chipped but I think there are
restrictions on (say) the council insisting or having the dog chipped
themselves (without the owners consent). And how many dog owners have
been fined the 500 pounds for not having their dogs chipped (and / or
keeping that data up to date). ;-(


They even stand by the signs suggesting people didn't feed the
wildfowl bread (and why), emptying a whole loaf into the pond.


maybe they don't agree.


Whilst they might not, they would be wrong.

I thin they may need to have some sort of pass where you have to read,
agree to and sign a declaration agreeing to the terms of the park
before they are allowed entry, then they couldn't say they 'didn't
realise' etc.


they agree to clearly displayed terms anyway. Let them agree to being
fined.


Good point. I'm assuming ignorance of the park byelaws (that are
clearly posted at each entrance) would be no defence? eg, You accept
them by just entering the park?

Cheers, T i m

[1] The funniest ones a

"It took me longer than I though because of my elderly parent / dog."

So, they became 'old' during the time they spent in the park, they
weren't already old (and slow) when you brought them in here?

"It took me longer because of the kids:" (some bizarre reason that
never include anything that justifies anything).

The frustrating thing is even when they are 'jollied up' by the
wardens, politely reminding / informing them the gates will be locked
*at* Xpm, some people still make no effort to get a wriggle on.


Fark, we arent actually stupid enough to **** all
that money against the wall locking up parks at night.

But then we arent actually stupid enough to have
manned public dunnys either.

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On Friday, 24 January 2020 17:01:53 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 07:18:07 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:29:28 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2020 00:05, tabbypurr wrote:

afaik they aren't recyclable. They're plastic & ali & grease, plus who knows what in the odd one.


But according to one green campaigner on TV a few months back you are
meant to wash them out using hot water and detergent! More CO2 to
recycle than to manufacture and distribute in the first place.


more importantly an entirely insane waste of people's time.


Assuming it is as he said, and of course it isn't.

It seems to be disconnection between things that get's people
confused.

Like, if you buy a bag of crisps you are (or should be) taking
responsibility for it, including how you dispose of it.


sure

If there is a
facility that disposes of it in a less environmentally damaging way,
then you should make reasonable efforts to do that.


reasonable is the key word there. A crisp packet is of such low value that spending time washing them is entirely unreasonable.

Burying them in landfill is not damaging, dropping them on the beach is.

You chose to buy / take / eat it, you then have to dispose of it
properly.

Now, if you can't engineer it to say drop a wodge of crisp packets
into a local drop off point, as part of your normal journey then maybe
you shouldn't buy them in the first place.


complete nonsequitur. You're virtue-fying something of near zero value. If everyone took crisp packets to a dedicated recycler the world would be worse off, not better. Time energy & money would have been misspent achieving a purely trivial benefit.


The various governments are now making manufacturers factor the
efficient disposal / recycling into their products and some are
obliged to accept products back when we have finished with them (a
feature we have already paid for of course).

See, for too long (since we were all generally well off) we have been
buying stuff with no regard what will happen to it when we are
finished with it and many have been happy to just 'throw stuff away'
when often there isn't such a place. So that means stuff has to be
stored (tyres / fridges), burned or buried in a hole in the ground,
all of which have come back to haunt us.


very little needs to be stored, nuclear waste is the main example. But even what little of that I produce doesn't need storing. Burned & buried is not haunting us.


What would be better is to not buy the thing in the first place,
repair it if it goes wrong, re-purpose it into something else / useful
or recycle it in it's core components (so it can be recycled more
efficiently).


In many cases sure. Also in many cases not. Society is grossly wasteful, but many things really are not worth repairing, repurposing etc.

And we can consider how recyclable a single use
container might be when we buy something.

Like, you can buy dog food dried in bulk, wet in tins or wet in
plastic pouches. From a quantity and recyclability POV, the plastic
pouches are worse than the tins and large paper sacks.

Cheers, T i m


It's not inherently wrong to bury waste. In many cases it's currently our best option.

Foiled plastic pouches use far less material per 4 pouches than 1 metal tin. And there are other differences that far outweigh that issue.

I'm all for better handling of the waste stream, I think what we do now is lousy, but so many people prioritise trivial waste matters far above their real worth, and that is a pointless cost, not a virtue.

It is so easy to increase recycling rate that with all the talk about it I have to wonder exactly why it's not being done. Does someone have zero brains, or does no-one even care?


NT
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On 24/01/2020 18:09, wrote:

It is so easy to increase recycling rate that with all the talk about it I have to wonder exactly why it's not being done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkj7gZmuuhU

Too many rules about what can and what cannot be recycled. My local
council has one colour sack for general rubbish and a different coloured
sack for all mixed recycling. Cardboard can be left at the side of the
sacks. Friends living in a different area are required to separate
different recycled products into different containers and cannot leave
cardboard out that still has packing tape, plastics cannot be put into a
plastic bag and have to remain individually loose in a box etc.

I personally shred most junk mail and documents and compost it.Most of
my cardboard waste also goes to the compost heap although I've noticed
recently that after the campaign to use few plastic bags food
manufactures are starting to use plastic coated cardboard which is a
complete PITA to compost as the plastic film doesn't rot and has to be
fished out of the final compost product.


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alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:


How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?


You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"


So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.


Soya (or other grain such as oats) contains vey ltiile free sugar, but
apple joice is added to the not-unsweetened one. Which does contain
various sweet-tasting sugers.

Why a purely mechanical extract of suigar cane is not "natural" is a
bit of a mystery to me - especially as olive oil is obtained by a rather
similar process, and is, apparently, natural. AFAiCS the only thing
that is not "natural" is witchcraft.

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I'm always in the ideal BMI range.


Your posting hours are in the clinically insane range, you clinically insane
85-year-old trolling senile asshole!

04:02!!! LOL They just can't come any dumber than you, senile Rodent!

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04:47??? LOL Yet AGAIN?

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wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 January 2020 13:24:55 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 18:06:24 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote


Anoher fact is that during WWII due to rationing the UK city populations
were healtheir than they are today, apart from being killed by bombs that
is.


Myth.


Nope, fact.

They were on average healthier than in 39,


So it isnt a myth.

but we live a good bit longer today than in the 40s.


Irrelevant to whether rationing during WW2 did
see everyone eat considerably more healthily
during that tine. And also got more exercise
growing their own food with plenty of them too.

but we live a good bit longer today than in the 40s.


For other reasons like antibiotics, vaccination,
control of infectious disease and much better
medical treatment of stuff like heart attacks
and strokes, not due to diet.

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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 10:09:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip


If there is a
facility that disposes of it in a less environmentally damaging way,
then you should make reasonable efforts to do that.


reasonable is the key word there. A crisp packet is of such low value that spending time washing them is entirely unreasonable.


*A* crisp packet maybe, but it doesn't take long to combine it with
many others.

Burying them in landfill is not damaging, dropping them on the beach is.


Assuming they make it to landfill, as you say, and don't end up
everywhere else.

You chose to buy / take / eat it, you then have to dispose of it
properly.

Now, if you can't engineer it to say drop a wodge of crisp packets
into a local drop off point, as part of your normal journey then maybe
you shouldn't buy them in the first place.


complete nonsequitur.


Only to you.

You're virtue-fying something of near zero value.


It's nothing to do with any 'value'.

If everyone took crisp packets to a dedicated recycler the world would be worse off, not better.


BS.

Time


'Time' maintaining the planet?

energy


When passing?

& money would have been misspent achieving a purely trivial benefit.


Trivial to you I'm guessing. It's not trivial to me, my family or any
of the thousands (millions?) of people who are 'bothering.

If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.


The various governments are now making manufacturers factor the
efficient disposal / recycling into their products and some are
obliged to accept products back when we have finished with them (a
feature we have already paid for of course).

See, for too long (since we were all generally well off) we have been
buying stuff with no regard what will happen to it when we are
finished with it and many have been happy to just 'throw stuff away'
when often there isn't such a place. So that means stuff has to be
stored (tyres / fridges), burned or buried in a hole in the ground,
all of which have come back to haunt us.


very little needs to be stored,


I didn't say it needs to be stored, I said it is being stored
*because* there isn't yet a sufficient need or efficient system for
dealing with them in the quantities they are getting.

nuclear waste is the main example. But even what little of that I produce doesn't need storing. Burned & buried is not haunting us.


Of course they are. Burning increases pollution and global warming
gasses (even if it does recoup some of the energy) and burying
requires space and resources and can have negative side effects
(chemical leaching into groundwater and explosive gas buildup), not to
mention the locking away of resources that may one day be more
valuable than the houses they have built on them.


What would be better is to not buy the thing in the first place,
repair it if it goes wrong, re-purpose it into something else / useful
or recycle it in it's core components (so it can be recycled more
efficiently).


In many cases sure. Also in many cases not.


ATM.

Society is grossly wasteful, but many things really are not worth repairing, repurposing etc.


'Worth' again and by whose standards?

I took an otherwise written-off washing machine that wasn't
economically repairable (by conventional means) and repaired it and it
lasted another 8 years.

You may throw away something that someone else would repair, keep and
use.

And we can consider how recyclable a single use
container might be when we buy something.

Like, you can buy dog food dried in bulk, wet in tins or wet in
plastic pouches. From a quantity and recyclability POV, the plastic
pouches are worse than the tins and large paper sacks.


It's not inherently wrong to bury waste.


That can very much depend on the waste.

In many cases it's currently our best option.


Ah, and that is another topic. ;-)

It takes 'people' to push for change and we hear today that Tesco are
no longer using / selling plastic wrapped multipacks. Once the big
outlets like Tesco stop using such, the manufacturers will stop doing
it and so stop offering it to the other supermarkets.

Sainsbury's sell reusable net bags for you to put / weigh your own
loose produce in. Once people get use to that I dare say they will
stop supplying any fruit / veg in plastic bags, in the way they have
by charging for carrier bags.

Foiled plastic pouches use far less material per 4 pouches than 1 metal tin.


Maybe, but if it takes 6 x the energy to recycle the foil pouches (and
we should till be build a catapult big enough to launch such waste
into the sun g) then the tin wins.

And there are other differences that far outweigh that issue.


Such as?

I'm all for better handling of the waste stream, I think what we do now is lousy, but so many people prioritise trivial waste matters far above their real worth, and that is a pointless cost, not a virtue.


I'm sure they will / do, but something is better than nothing, even if
it's not the best thing, as long as it's done correctly.

It is so easy to increase recycling rate that with all the talk about it I have to wonder exactly why it's not being done.


Because of the same thing that fuels most of the issues we suffer as a
society, greed, ignorance and selfishness.

Does someone have zero brains, or does no-one even care?


I'm sure a bit of both, but many people do care, even if they don't
have the brains or skills to find out what's the best thing for
themselves.

Our Council gives out very clear leaflets (though every door)
describing in simple terms what things are wanted in the recycling
bins, what things aren't and how to process them.

I would say at least 50% of the bins we pass when walking the dog in
some way fall foul of the 'rules' and so either don't get collected or
contaminate / de-value the waste stream.

As you ask, are these people actually thick? Are we asking too much of
them with the instruction, 'Take the top off the milk bottle before
putting it in the recycling box', or 'flatten all cardboard boxes' ...
because these people simply can't understand *why* they have been
requested so? Or is it they CBA to take the responsibility for their
own waste in a way that allows the council to keep their rates down?

Maybe schools should dump religious education and replace them with
classes on *Why* we all need to be a good citizens?

Cheers, T i m




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"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:


How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?

You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"


So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.


Soya (or other grain such as oats) contains vey ltiile free sugar, but
apple joice is added to the not-unsweetened one. Which does contain
various sweet-tasting sugers.

Why a purely mechanical extract of suigar cane is not "natural" is a
bit of a mystery to me


Yep.

- especially as olive oil is obtained by a rather
similar process, and is, apparently, natural.


AFAiCS the only thing that is not "natural" is witchcraft.


But its hard to claim that whats done to produce reasonably
spreadable margarine is particularly natural.

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Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Ray
wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?

You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"

So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.

Soya (or other grain such as oats) contains vey ltiile free sugar, but
apple joice is added to the not-unsweetened one. Which does contain
various sweet-tasting sugers.

Why a purely mechanical extract of suigar cane is not "natural" is a
bit of a mystery to me


Yep.

- especially as olive oil is obtained by a rather
similar process, and is, apparently, natural.


AFAiCS the only thing that is not "natural" is witchcraft.


But its hard to claim that whats done to produce reasonably
spreadable margarine is particularly natural.


You could say that about butter if you were so inclined.


Take cream, shake, add salt. Pretty sure thats a long way off margarine
production.

Tim

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"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Ray
wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
. ..
alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?

You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"

So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added sugar.

Soya (or other grain such as oats) contains vey ltiile free sugar, but
apple joice is added to the not-unsweetened one. Which does contain
various sweet-tasting sugers.

Why a purely mechanical extract of suigar cane is not "natural" is a
bit of a mystery to me


Yep.

- especially as olive oil is obtained by a rather
similar process, and is, apparently, natural.


AFAiCS the only thing that is not "natural" is witchcraft.


But its hard to claim that whats done to produce reasonably
spreadable margarine is particularly natural.


You could say that about butter if you were so inclined.


Hell of a stretch with traditional churning.

Not even as bad as whats done with sugar cane
to produce white sugar.

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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 08:30 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for almost FOUR HOURS already!!!! LOL

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 08:30:08 +1100, Ray, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


But its hard to claim that whats done to produce reasonably
spreadable margarine is particularly natural.


Are you now smartassing about margarine, you clinically insane sleepless
senile pest? LOL

--
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around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from from you boring
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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 09:00 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for FIVE HOURS already!!!! LOL

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:00:34 +1100, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH senile cretin's troll****

09:00 in Australia? And you STILL don't want to go to bed, you abnormal,
85-year-old, clinically insane troll? LOL

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Default Where does paint all go?

On 24/01/2020 22:19, T i m wrote:

So the 8000 collection points across the country are all just empty
are they?


So far the total number of retuned crisp packets are equivalent to
around 1 days worth of UK production of crisps/packets.

Its very hard to find any information about how the packets are actually
recycled. Lots of PR about setting up collection points, lots of PR
about Walkers accepting the packets (minimum 8Kg) but follow their links
to what happens to the returned packets gets to general information
about recycling waste that already gets curb side collection.

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Default Where does paint all go?



"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article
,
Tim+ wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Ray
wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

On 24/01/2020 13:40, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:17 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

How can they claim no added sugars when one of their products is
labelled unsweetened?

You aren't very bright are you?

"* contains naturally occurring sugars"

So why the label unsweetened on one carton and not the other two?
Naturally occurring sugar added to two products and not the other?

You do seem to be lacking some knowledge about how food labelling
works. Call sugar something else and add a label saying no added
sugar.

Soya (or other grain such as oats) contains vey ltiile free sugar, but
apple joice is added to the not-unsweetened one. Which does contain
various sweet-tasting sugers.

Why a purely mechanical extract of suigar cane is not "natural" is a
bit of a mystery to me

Yep.

- especially as olive oil is obtained by a rather
similar process, and is, apparently, natural.

AFAiCS the only thing that is not "natural" is witchcraft.

But its hard to claim that whats done to produce reasonably
spreadable margarine is particularly natural.

You could say that about butter if you were so inclined.


Take cream, shake, add salt. Pretty sure thats a long way off margarine
production.


Leave out the salt.


No thanks, its much more natural than breeding cows to
produce lots of milk when they arent calving and drinking
what humans wouldnt naturally be consuming after about
the age of 12 months or so, let alone making butter from it.

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Default Where does paint all go?

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 22:44:09 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 24/01/2020 22:19, T i m wrote:

So the 8000 collection points across the country are all just empty
are they?


So far the total number of retuned crisp packets are equivalent to
around 1 days worth of UK production of crisps/packets.


So far.

Its very hard to find any information about how the packets are actually
recycled.


You could always contact Terracycle for more information?

https://www.terracycle.com/en-GB/contact-us

https://www.terracycle.com/en-GB/brigades/crisppacket

"Crisp multipack outer packaging is accepted. Please do not fold the
crisp packets into triangles.

Once collected, the crisp packets are separated by plastic type,
cleaned, and extruded into plastic pellets to make new recycled
products."

Cheers, T i m

p.s. It seems they are doing a lot more than just crisp packets (and
Tetra Paks):

This video gives a bit of an insight how Tetra Paks are preprocessed
and the things they are turned into (in India at least from 10 years
ago):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzWv...ature=youtu.be
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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 10:12 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for OVER SIX HOURS already!!!! LOL

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:12:05 +1100, Ray, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

10:12 already? So, you've been up and trolling for OVER SIX HOURS, almost
all night long, yet AGAIN! Can't you even TRY to hide what the matter is
with you, you clinically insane trolling senile asshole? LOL

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https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/
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