With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

--
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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
--
Ian

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

Because when rocks get washed into the rivers and then to the sea,
they don't float so don't stay in suspension for the fish to eat, or
if they do they are generally very much smaller than the equivalent
plastic partials so may pass though small creatures?

Also, paint flakes may contain lead and may then poison small
creatures?

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 10:36:39 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

Because when rocks get washed into the rivers and then to the sea,
they don't float so don't stay in suspension for the fish to eat, or
if they do they are generally very much smaller than the equivalent
plastic partials so may pass though small creatures?

Also, paint flakes may contain lead and may then poison small
creatures?

Cheers, T i m

Paint flakes are quite able to poison big creatures as well!

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 02:38:44 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

Also, paint flakes may contain lead and may then poison small
creatures?



Paint flakes are quite able to poison big creatures as well!

Well, quite. ;-(

I was talking to a fellow dog walker yesterday who had a visitor stay
from the USA and their visitor stated how dirty they considered the UK
to be, specifically as compared to wherever they lived (and I'm
guessing some states / cities / towns were god / bad over there too).

Mum and Dad went to Singapore a few years back and they said that
place was immaculate and I believe there are very strong fines for
littering or dropping gum. [1]

And that's the point here. Few councils seem to go out of their way to
provide street bins, other than maybe in the town centres / shopping
areas / parks, possibly because of the cost of collection ... versus
sending out the road sweeper (that rarely covers all the corners /
under / in hedges etc) or, better still, educating the minority (I
believe it to be) to be more responsible for their own waste.

Like, they take a bag of picnic crap into the park to consume, then
think it then becomes the parks responsibility to deal with it. If
they don't they put plastic bottles or other general waste into the
dog poo bin (even though it states clearly on the front it's *only*
for dog waste) of if they can't get it in anywhere, just leave it on
the ground, near the bin or anywhere (for the foxes to spread about
overnight).

Should the councils provide a bigger bins? If they did, where would it
end ... before people turn up at the park and bring even more rubbish
with them, like furniture and mattresses?

The bottom line is it's down to education (and some only learn by
being caught out and / or fined), empathy / selfishness.

We were following some 'yout' down the road the other day and he just
dropped his drink can on the pavement. I would have loved to have
given it back to him ... taped to a baseball bat ... ;-(

Do these people mind if their front gardens are fill of rubbish ... or
would they only notice when they were wading though it?

A neighbour (who often picks up street litter, as a few of us do) has
caught a few other (often 'new' / younger) neighbours leaving crap
out on the pavement (old domestic appliances) and just littering in
general (putting their coffee ups on the pavement before walking the
10 yards 'home' or clearing the car door pocket of tickets and tissues
and just dropping them on the road) and has pulled them up on it. In
all cases so far they have ... first denied it, then agreed they had,
then apologised and when pressed, sheepishly promised they wouldn't do
it again.

What is it in their heads that allows them to do it in the first
place?

Rant over. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Anyone comment on other 1st world countries that are notably clean
/ dirty, compared with here?

p.s. The above was fuelled from the point is that it's often simply
this personal waste / litter that gets into our waterways and hence
out to sea. Round here, as all the floodwater runoff subsides you can
see a 'tide line' of plastic bottle, bags and cans that have been left
behind on the banks. ;-(

p.p.s. I have encounter quite a few people who litter because (they
say / think) it 'keeps someone in a job'. The problem with that is
those people could be doing something 'better' than picking up other
peoples fly tipping and therefore not such a burden on the local
ratepayers.

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:03:14 UTC, T i m wrote:
I was talking to a fellow dog walker yesterday who had a visitor stay
from the USA and their visitor stated how dirty they considered the UK
to be, specifically as compared to wherever they lived (and I'm
guessing some states / cities / towns were god / bad over there too).

The USA has a far lower population density and a lot more places they can just hide the problem in landfill.

We used to be a much tidier country before all these environmental regulations put six different types of recycling bin on every corner.

Owain

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 02:38:44 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

Also, paint flakes may contain lead and may then poison small
creatures?



Paint flakes are quite able to poison big creatures as well!

Well, quite. ;-(

I was talking to a fellow dog walker yesterday who had a visitor stay
from the USA and their visitor stated how dirty they considered the UK
to be, specifically as compared to wherever they lived (and I'm
guessing some states / cities / towns were god / bad over there too).

Mum and Dad went to Singapore a few years back and they said that
place was immaculate and I believe there are very strong fines for
littering or dropping gum. [1]

And that's the point here. Few councils seem to go out of their way to
provide street bins, other than maybe in the town centres / shopping
areas / parks, possibly because of the cost of collection ... versus
sending out the road sweeper (that rarely covers all the corners /
under / in hedges etc) or, better still, educating the minority (I
believe it to be) to be more responsible for their own waste.

Like, they take a bag of picnic crap into the park to consume, then
think it then becomes the parks responsibility to deal with it. If
they don't they put plastic bottles or other general waste into the
dog poo bin (even though it states clearly on the front it's *only*
for dog waste) of if they can't get it in anywhere, just leave it on
the ground, near the bin or anywhere (for the foxes to spread about
overnight).

Should the councils provide a bigger bins? If they did, where would it
end ... before people turn up at the park and bring even more rubbish
with them, like furniture and mattresses?

The bottom line is it's down to education (and some only learn by
being caught out and / or fined), empathy / selfishness.

We were following some 'yout' down the road the other day and he just
dropped his drink can on the pavement. I would have loved to have
given it back to him ... taped to a baseball bat ... ;-(

Do these people mind if their front gardens are fill of rubbish ... or
would they only notice when they were wading though it?

A neighbour (who often picks up street litter, as a few of us do) has
caught a few other (often 'new' / younger) neighbours leaving crap
out on the pavement (old domestic appliances) and just littering in
general (putting their coffee ups on the pavement before walking the
10 yards 'home' or clearing the car door pocket of tickets and tissues
and just dropping them on the road) and has pulled them up on it. In
all cases so far they have ... first denied it, then agreed they had,
then apologised and when pressed, sheepishly promised they wouldn't do
it again.

What is it in their heads that allows them to do it in the first
place?

Rant over. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Anyone comment on other 1st world countries that are notably clean
/ dirty, compared with here?

Some of the street views of french 'slums' are amazingly clean.

p.s. The above was fuelled from the point is that it's often simply
this personal waste / litter that gets into our waterways and hence
out to sea. Round here, as all the floodwater runoff subsides you can
see a 'tide line' of plastic bottle, bags and cans that have been left
behind on the banks. ;-(

p.p.s. I have encounter quite a few people who litter because (they
say / think) it 'keeps someone in a job'. The problem with that is
those people could be doing something 'better' than picking up other
peoples fly tipping and therefore not such a burden on the local
ratepayers.

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:03:13 +0000, T i m wrote:

Mum and Dad went to Singapore a few years back and they said that place
was immaculate and I believe there are very strong fines for littering
or dropping gum.

I *personally* regard littering - from the odd fag end right the way up
to flytipped tonnes - as one of the worst crimes a person can commit.
It's lack of respect for where I have to live is indicative of a very bad
person.

I'd be more than happy to see custodial sentences for littering. And I
would suspect a lot of petty crime would disappear overnight.

I think it's called the broken windows approach ?

I am waiting for this offence to be linked to dash cam footage. Don't
need to involve the Police, just threaten their driving licence!

--
Tim Lamb

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:03:13 +0000, T i m wrote:

Mum and Dad went to Singapore a few years back and they said that place
was immaculate and I believe there are very strong fines for littering
or dropping gum.

I *personally* regard littering - from the odd fag end right the way up
to flytipped tonnes - as one of the worst crimes a person can commit.
It's lack of respect for where I have to live is indicative of a very bad
person.

I'd be more than happy to see custodial sentences for littering. And I
would suspect a lot of petty crime would disappear overnight.

It didnt with marijuana.

I think it's called the broken windows approach ?

Its always been a myth.

On 22/01/2020 08:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been
going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

And biological fauna become oil and flora become coal.

All plastic degrades eventually.


--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€�

€• Jean Claud Jüncker

On 22/01/2020 10:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2020 08:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been
going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and
the inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

And biological fauna become oil and flora become coal.

All plastic degrades eventually.



And pebbles and sand can be recycled into concrete, which can
then be recycled again ...

Yes a whole new sphere of research. Indeed some bacteria have been found
only to exist on certain substances already, so nature finds a niche, and
exploits it.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been
going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

I wish Lush would stop putting bits of sparkly plastic in their bath
bombs. They get everywhere when my missus uses them. She doesn't
actually buy them, but some people think they make a nice present.

On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.

And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.

See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/

My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.


--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€�

€• Jean Claud Jüncker

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the
sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.
And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.
See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/
My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.



--
Tim Lamb

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:08:50 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip


and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Ok, I'll admit to buying a bottle drink when we are out and have been
caught out but 1) we often re-use the bottle several times and 2) will
always recycle them properly. Even to the point of not trusting that
the likes of McDonalds sorting their waste and taking it home so that
we can be sure we have done it properly (rather than just throwing it
out the window of their car at some point on their way home ... where
they typically have a bin outside their own house?).

If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. Do they say bottled water is 1000 times more expensive than
tap water and often not as well tested as tap water?

I often see people heaving huge multipacks of water into the shopping
trolleys or car boys and think they must be mad or something?

I often buy the Salisbury's 2% lager that has recently gone up to
£1.25 for 4 cans. How can 4 cans of lager, that is mostly water, be
less than a bottle of plain water?

The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them, are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

What a mad world we live in ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

T i m wrote:

The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them, are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

I do buy a little of Sainsbury's cheapest fizzy water. The amount
we use is so low that pratting about with Sparklets is not a
sensible or economic option.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:30:38 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:08:50 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Ok, I'll admit to buying a bottle drink when we are out and have been
caught out but 1) we often re-use the bottle several times and 2) will
always recycle them properly.

It's also a big problem with the meal deals in supermarkets which I use
almost every day, and so do many students.

Even to the point of not trusting that
the likes of McDonalds sorting their waste and taking it home so that
we can be sure we have done it properly.

I've not been in McDonalds since 1993 and even then it was only because
a GF likked a McDonalds breakfast. 2003 was the last time I went
in a chain burger bar (burger king), and not been in a KFC type place since around 1987.


If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. Do they say bottled water is 1000 times more expensive than
tap water and often not as well tested as tap water?

It's what they say, but few people buy tap water anyway.
Most bottled water is spring water or other types.
I do drink the water from the dispenser in the graduate centre hallway
which is cooled water, about 500ml a day.


I often see people heaving huge multipacks of water into the shopping
trolleys or car boys and think they must be mad or something?

yes I do wonder about that too, but have you seen the price of it, so cheap
relatively that is. Even lemonade in aldi was 16p per litre.


I often buy the Salisbury's 2% lager that has recently gone up to
£1.25 for 4 cans. How can 4 cans of lager, that is mostly water, be
less than a bottle of plain water?

Is it, I wondered who buys such stuff now I know ;-)
Unless of course you actually like the taste not that I've tried it.
I'll just have one or two bottles of spitfire, abbots ale, bishops finger
or similar a week.


The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them,

or that it actually does taste better.


are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

but NEVER when it's straight from the tap, they have NEVER done that test.
Sure put in in a bottle with the top off to let the cholrine evapourate
then cool it.
Another thing to remmber is that the water is tested BEFORE it goes through the pipes to our homes. Even my cat won;t drink frest tap water she'll wait 15 mins then go and drink it, this could be down to temperature as I've noticed she
is more likely to drink warm water.


What a mad world we live in ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

That's the reason that I havent bought walkers crisps for over a year now.
In fact I haven't bought any crips during since then.
My brother told me that there's a reccyle shop that accepts walkers crisp bags but it's a 15min walk from the tube station.

yopu might find a place near to you.

https://www.walkers.co.uk/recycle
My 'local' one isn't on this map above, which too ages to load.

But I do eat crisps sometimes.
I had some brussel spout flavoured ones before xams. I'm having some now left over from a student function/event yesterday, and tried a sandwich too, but the bread was crisper than the crisps !

I'm also cutting down on my meat intake oooo err misses.
Have been since may, not sure if I can go veggie let alone vegan.
But I did have a vegan choclate bar today, but of course that was wrapped in plastic with a cardboard sleeve which has gone in the correct recycle bin..
Now whether or not it gets recycled I don't know.
But it was noted that all the recycled paper and card went into the same truck
as standard waste a year ago.

Still not sure what I can do about electrical waste, as in electroncis
and no longer used wall marts.

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:30:38 UTC, T i m wrote:
Ok, I'll admit to buying a bottle drink when we are out and have been
caught out but 1) we often re-use the bottle several times and 2) will
always recycle them properly. Even to the point of not trusting that
the likes of McDonalds sorting their waste and taking it home so that
we can be sure we have done it properly (rather than just throwing it
out the window of their car at some point on their way home ... where
they typically have a bin outside their own house?).

If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

You sound like a right nutter.

Bill

On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

Can they recycle them?
Haven't they just been shamed providing one use packaging and as a PR
exercise they are now accepting the packaging back for disposal to
landfill or incineration?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:08:50 +0000, Tim Lamb


The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them, are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

What a mad world we live in ...

Maybe theyre right? Tap water might not be as safe as weve long
supposed.

https://www.doctorshealthpress.com/c...ladder-cancer/

Tim+

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 22/01/2020 12:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has
been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and
the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
Â*While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.
Â*And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.
Â*See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/
Â*My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Chop everything up with a Tyranosaur shredder (even engine blocks!),
extract the ferrous metal with magnets and the non-ferrous with moving
magnetic fields (induction motor effect). Put the remainder into a
plasma arc syngas generator and *EVERYTHING* is clean burn! Take the
syngas and extract heat to produce steam for a turbine. Extract more
heat to heat feed water for the steam heat exchanger; burn the syngas in
a gas turbine. Sell the excess electricity produced by the turbines.

That was the system that was being planned some years ago.

SteveW

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 22/01/2020 12:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has
been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust
and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
*While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.
*And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.
*See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/
*My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.
And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Chop everything up with a Tyranosaur shredder (even engine blocks!),
extract the ferrous metal with magnets and the non-ferrous with moving
magnetic fields (induction motor effect). Put the remainder into a
plasma arc syngas generator and *EVERYTHING* is clean burn! Take the
syngas and extract heat to produce steam for a turbine. Extract more
heat to heat feed water for the steam heat exchanger; burn the syngas
in a gas turbine. Sell the excess electricity produced by the turbines.

Lovely plan. Now sell it to the neighbours:-(

Governments elected by popular vote do not have the intestinal fortitude
for such decisions.


That was the system that was being planned some years ago.

SteveW

--
Tim Lamb

On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU
that we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't
be recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to
export it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate
power in a purpose build incinerator.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:58:25 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU
that we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't
be recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to
export it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate
power in a purpose build incinerator.

Cite?

Chances are this is just more fanatic Brexiteer made up BS and FUD.

Cheers, T i m

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU that
we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't be
recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to export
it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate power in a
purpose build incinerator.

But it makes much more sense to have your own
purpose built incinerators in the UK and avoid the
stupid cost of carting it to scandinavia.

Like most things, there is truth and falsehoods everywhere. The snag is we
do not know the long term issues since we have not had the amount of plastic
long enough to actually do the research yet.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been
going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?

While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.

And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.

See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/

My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.


--
"when things get difficult you just have to lie"

? Jean Claud Jüncker

On 22/01/2020 07:57, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

lead paint was dangerous when it fell off buildings in Edinburgh...could
kill you

On 22/01/2020 07:57, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

what about all those disgusting fag ends ?