In message , at 06:11:57 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, Rod Speed remarked:

While it's politically incorrect to say so, fire brigades do have
a track record of blundering when it comes to large fires. Another
was the Liverpool Echo.

Cherry picking failures from a very large number of successes

At fighting fires in big public buildings? Perhaps there are
non-compliant tower blocks and multi-storey car parks going up in
flames all the time, being put out, and they never make the news?

Clearly most have a fire that is contained very effectively

Then they wouldn't be non-compliant.

and so are no news at all when no one dies etc.

--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 06:11:57 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, Rod Speed remarked:

While it's politically incorrect to say so, fire brigades do have a
track record of blundering when it comes to large fires. Another was
the Liverpool Echo.

Cherry picking failures from a very large number of successes

At fighting fires in big public buildings? Perhaps there are
non-compliant tower blocks and multi-storey car parks going up in
flames all the time, being put out, and they never make the news?

Clearly most have a fire that is contained very effectively

Then they wouldn't be non-compliant.

Or were were no compliant but werent unlucky enough
to have that matter After all, even with Grenfell, it was
very unlucky indeed that the appliance fire ended up
outside the window. That wouldn't normally happen.

and so are no news at all when no one dies etc.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 08:39:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Or were were no compliant but werent unlucky enough
to have that matter After all, even with Grenfell,

ALL none of yours, you abnormal senile Ozzie pest!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

Nope, they usually have a man bucket running up one of the
stay cables driven by a ground winch. Time costs and they
can't have them wasting time climbing hand over hand etc...

Yeah, you can see a short ladder from the stay cable to
the platform in one of the last photos in your last link.



Anyone got any links to a video or doco of the
entire tower being put up in the first place ?


Not that one but this one out at Mendelsham in Suffolk for the opening
of ITV in the region back in 1959. I remember that time well it was a
gloriously hot summer and I bet some of the blokes a rigging this
developed skin cancer most all stripped to the waist. The firm that made
it Painter Brothers in Hereford is still there in operation!.

You can see how they used to get up there with their equipment and
aerial parts all relying on the winch man and engine! Brave old boys
doubt if any are around nowadays.

Enjoy!..

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/861

The structure is still there also no longer carrying TV but does some FM
and DAB services.


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=1341

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Couldnt find much with a quick look.

Fark, what an eejut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2p4BOGXSBw

Yess well its interesting to note the straps over his shoulders and that
loose long strap around his lower waist, hidden parachute perhaps?
Also if that was running he'd have had a job holding on with gloves even
i suspect it was switched off and due for demolition.

Anyone doing that pro would have all the safely gear and harnesses and
more then one of them in case it does go wrong!.

I like the ones of a bloke and bird cycling around the top of an old
chimney in Romania balancing her on his shoulders, far more fun


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Nope, they usually have a man bucket running up one of the
stay cables driven by a ground winch. Time costs and they
can't have them wasting time climbing hand over hand etc...

Yeah, you can see a short ladder from the stay cable to
the platform in one of the last photos in your last link.



Anyone got any links to a video or doco of the
entire tower being put up in the first place ?


Not that one but this one out at Mendelsham in Suffolk for the opening
of ITV in the region back in 1959. I remember that time well it was a
gloriously hot summer and I bet some of the blokes a rigging this
developed skin cancer most all stripped to the waist. The firm that made
it Painter Brothers in Hereford is still there in operation!.

You can see how they used to get up there with their equipment and
aerial parts all relying on the winch man and engine! Brave old boys
doubt if any are around nowadays.

Enjoy!..

I did indeed, thanks for that. Must have been how ours
was done too only a little later. Same type of tower, not
quite so tall because its on the top of a decent sized hill.
with flat land all around.

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/861

The structure is still there also no longer carrying TV but does some FM
and DAB services.


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=1341

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 09:53:02 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I did indeed, thanks for that.

You must INDEED be ever so thankful that there's still some senile UK fool
around who keeps feeding you obnoxious trolling senile pest, eh, senile
Rodent? BG

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On 07/11/2019 20:36, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:11:57 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, Rod Speed remarked:

Â*While it's politically incorrect to say so, fire brigades do have
aÂ* track record of blundering when it comes to large fires. Another
was theÂ* Liverpool Echo.

Cherry picking failures from a very large number of successes

At fighting fires in big public buildings? Perhaps there are
non-compliantÂ* tower blocks and multi-storey car parks going up in
flames all the time,Â* being put out, and they never make the news?

In a well behaved high rise building the damage is usually contained in
a single flat and limited to smoke damage in adjacent properties. Barely
makes the local news unless it affects traffic flow on a major road.

Clearly most have a fire that is contained very effectively

Then they wouldn't be non-compliant.

But which is more important issue to deal with?

The sub optimal performance of the fire service on the night when faced
with a fire that grew in a way that should *NEVER* have been possible.
(if UK building regulations had been followed)

or

The idiots that allowed such a death trap of a building to be
constructed in the first place (and all the others like it).

They made two sides of the fire triangle with both fuel *and* oxygen
freely available and the only thing missing was a source of ignition.

Grenfell tower didn't even have a building wide evacuation fire alarm,
floor plans on site or a working fire emergency override in the lifts.
It was quite literally a disaster waiting to happen.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
In a well behaved high rise building the damage is usually contained in
a single flat and limited to smoke damage in adjacent properties. Barely
makes the local news unless it affects traffic flow on a major road.

Quite.

Clearly most have a fire that is contained very effectively

Then they wouldn't be non-compliant.

But which is more important issue to deal with?

The sub optimal performance of the fire service on the night when faced
with a fire that grew in a way that should *NEVER* have been possible.
(if UK building regulations had been followed)

or

The idiots that allowed such a death trap of a building to be
constructed in the first place (and all the others like it).

It was not the original design or construction that was at fault. Or
rather if it was, there are many thousands the same. It was the
reburbishement using a combination of poor materials and workmanship.

They made two sides of the fire triangle with both fuel *and* oxygen
freely available and the only thing missing was a source of ignition.

Grenfell tower didn't even have a building wide evacuation fire alarm,
floor plans on site or a working fire emergency override in the lifts.
It was quite literally a disaster waiting to happen.

Evacuating an entire building of that size without a properly policed
evacuation drill would likely have resulted in injuries. Of course with
hindsight, better than all those deaths. But would have resulted in the
same blame game.

My view is the investigation reports were in the wrong order. The cause of
the disaster and those responsible for that should have been the first
part released. And things like any failings of the FB, later.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , at 10:44:07 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, Martin Brown remarked:
On 07/11/2019 20:36, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:11:57 on Fri, 8
Nov 2019, Rod Speed remarked:

*While it's politically incorrect to say so, fire brigades do
have a* track record of blundering when it comes to large fires.
Another was the* Liverpool Echo.

Cherry picking failures from a very large number of successes

At fighting fires in big public buildings? Perhaps there are
non-compliant* tower blocks and multi-storey car parks going up in
flames all the time,* being put out, and they never make the news?

In a well behaved high rise building the damage is usually contained in
a single flat and limited to smoke damage in adjacent properties.
Barely makes the local news unless it affects traffic flow on a major
road.

In that case it's not a "large fire", is it?

Clearly most have a fire that is contained very effectively
Then they wouldn't be non-compliant.

But which is more important issue to deal with?

The sub optimal performance of the fire service on the night when faced
with a fire that grew in a way that should *NEVER* have been possible.
(if UK building regulations had been followed)

or

The idiots that allowed such a death trap of a building to be
constructed in the first place (and all the others like it).

They made two sides of the fire triangle with both fuel *and* oxygen
freely available and the only thing missing was a source of ignition.

Grenfell tower didn't even have a building wide evacuation fire alarm,
floor plans on site or a working fire emergency override in the lifts.
It was quite literally a disaster waiting to happen.

Neither of the above. Read the report.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In a well behaved high rise building the damage is usually contained in
a single flat and limited to smoke damage in adjacent properties.
Barely makes the local news unless it affects traffic flow on a major
road.

In that case it's not a "large fire", is it?

And neither was the Grenfell one when it started.

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , at 13:55:53 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

In a well behaved high rise building the damage is usually contained in
a single flat and limited to smoke damage in adjacent properties.
Barely makes the local news unless it affects traffic flow on a major
road.

In that case it's not a "large fire", is it?

And neither was the Grenfell one when it started.

The failings of the LFB were evident when after half an hour it clearly
was.
--
Roland Perry