When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant, unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Richard

On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?


I have buried crimps in walls before.

Whether or not they are legal is open to question.

If wet plastering over, obviously waterporoof them


Richard



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 16/09/2019 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?


I have buried crimps in walls before.

Whether or not they are legal is open to question.

If wet plastering over, obviously waterporoof them


Mind you, my father used to replace the old round baekelite light
switches with "modern" square ones without bothering with a metal box.
He just made the hole large enough, wired them up, and then set them in
polyfilla. Admittedly no RCDs in those days (mostly no earth either) but
he never blew a fuse that way.

(There was, usually, only half an inch of wire available so limited
scope for doing better anyway).

On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

On 16/09/2019 13:38, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

Large crimps, and a bigger crimp tool...

However sometimes with a bit of lateral thought, you can change the
problem enough to make another solution more appropriate.

Say for example, pulling the cable to the shower back from the old CU
into the loft, and pulling in a new section of cable from the new CU to
the loft. Then you can use a large high capacity JB in a location that
*is* accessible to join the cables, and all you need bury in plaster is
a bit of the new cable.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/09/2019 13:04, newshound wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?


I have buried crimps in walls before.

Whether or not they are legal is open to question.

If wet plastering over, obviously waterporoof them


Mind you, my father used to replace the old round baekelite light
switches with "modern" square ones without bothering with a metal box.
He just made the hole large enough, wired them up, and then set them in
polyfilla. Admittedly no RCDs in those days (mostly no earth either) but
he never blew a fuse that way.

It would be close to impossible to blow a fuse in those circumstances.
There is typically no neutral at the light switch position, and on an
unearthed circuit, there is nothing else you could sink enough fault
current to blow the fuse.

(There was, usually, only half an inch of wire available so limited
scope for doing better anyway).

Best you can normally do is to over sleeve the old rubber insulation,
and crimp on an extension to give you bit more wire to play with...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

Big crimps and heatshrink. :-)

You do need a serious crimp tool for larger than 6sqmm though,
standard insulated crimps and ratchet crimp tool only go up to
'yellow' which is 6sqmm maximum.

For larger stuff I have a hydraulic crimp tool which goes up to
65sqmm. For a one-off job it might not be worth it. You can get
mechanical crimp tools for these larger sizes but they're still quite
expensive. I guess you could do it with a vice/hammer plus punch but
I'm not sure how good the result would be.

--
Chris Green
·

On 16/09/2019 13:59, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:38, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

Large crimps, and a bigger crimp tool...

However sometimes with a bit of lateral thought, you can change the
problem enough to make another solution more appropriate.

Say for example, pulling the cable to the shower back from the old CU
into the loft, and pulling in a new section of cable from the new CU to
the loft. Then you can use a large high capacity JB in a location that
*is* accessible to join the cables, and all you need bury in plaster is
a bit of the new cable.




Problem is, a racket crimper for 10mm is going to cost upwards of
£40, and you could get 15 mtres of 10mm t&e for that price.

On Monday, 16 September 2019 10:24:52 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant, unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Richard

You can join cable with solder ferrules. (A tube in which cables are soldered using a blowlwmp) No crimping tool needed.
All sizes of cable can be thus joined.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cable...r-sleeve-kits/

On 16/09/2019 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:59, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:38, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

Large crimps, and a bigger crimp tool...

However sometimes with a bit of lateral thought, you can change the
problem enough to make another solution more appropriate.

Say for example, pulling the cable to the shower back from the old CU
into the loft, and pulling in a new section of cable from the new CU
to the loft. Then you can use a large high capacity JB in a location
that *is* accessible to join the cables, and all you need bury in
plaster is a bit of the new cable.




Problem is, a racket crimper for 10mm is going to cost upwards of
£40, and you could get 15 mtres of 10mm t&e for that price.

Indeed, hence other options... although you do get the keep the crimper
for next time!

As a one off, you may be better using solder and heat shrink (although
you will probably need small flame to get enough heat into 10mm^2)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The present cable is only 4mm2 my preferred option is to pull a length of new cable through using 6mm2 which I will also be using elsewhere. The problem with accessibility is that the roof pitch is only 22° and trussed and guess where the cable runs - a real test for claustropobia. At the bathroom end it terminates at a ceiling switch, if I am to join it will be in the wall above the CU. At the moment I have no idea if the existing cable will pull through but if it will I will use it to pull through a new length.

As I said before this is a temporary arrangement so we can use the shower until the bathroom is replaced. The present shower will be replaced with a digital shower which is basically a mixer and does not heat the water so the present supply cable will be left in situ and terminated off when no longer required.

Richard

John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:59, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:38, Andrew wrote:
On 16/09/2019 11:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 10:24, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending
this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following
the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant,
unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am
hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new
cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an
inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use
crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation
do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Crimps and heatshrink would be the usual preferred option.


10 mm cable though ??

Large crimps, and a bigger crimp tool...

However sometimes with a bit of lateral thought, you can change the
problem enough to make another solution more appropriate.

Say for example, pulling the cable to the shower back from the old CU
into the loft, and pulling in a new section of cable from the new CU
to the loft. Then you can use a large high capacity JB in a location
that *is* accessible to join the cables, and all you need bury in
plaster is a bit of the new cable.




Problem is, a racket crimper for 10mm is going to cost upwards of
£40, and you could get 15 mtres of 10mm t&e for that price.

Indeed, hence other options... although you do get the keep the crimper
for next time!

As a one off, you may be better using solder and heat shrink (although
you will probably needÂ* small flame to get enough heat into 10mm^2)


We were taught to splice cables and then solder.

https://imgur.com/SggvqoJ

On 16/09/2019 16:48, Tricky Dicky wrote:
The present cable is only 4mm2 my preferred option is to pull a length of new cable through using 6mm2 which I will also be using elsewhere. The problem with accessibility is that the roof pitch is only 22° and trussed and guess where the cable runs - a real test for claustropobia.

That's what children are for! Seriously, I suffer from arthritis and
crawling around is very painful and affects me for days, so my eldest
son gets sent under the floor or in other difficult to access places
when pulling cables.

SteveW

On 16/09/2019 18:09, Steve Walker wrote:
On 16/09/2019 16:48, Tricky Dicky wrote:
The present cable is only 4mm2 my preferred option is to pull a length
of new cable through using 6mm2 which I will also be using elsewhere.
The problem with accessibility is that the roof pitch is only 22° and
trussed and guess where the cable runs - a real test for claustropobia.

That's what children are for! Seriously, I suffer from arthritis and
crawling around is very painful and affects me for days, so my eldest
son gets sent under the floor or in other difficult to access places
when pulling cables.

I suffer from being too big, but have discovered that son can be bribed
to slip between joists and descend under floors etc! :-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/09/2019 14:03, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/09/2019 13:04, newshound wrote:



Mind you, my father used to replace the old round baekelite light
switches with "modern" square ones without bothering with a metal box.
He just made the hole large enough, wired them up, and then set them
in polyfilla. Admittedly no RCDs in those days (mostly no earth
either) but he never blew a fuse that way.

It would be close to impossible to blow a fuse in those circumstances.
There is typically no neutral at the light switch position, and on an
unearthed circuit, there is nothing else you could sink enough fault
current to blow the fuse.

(There was, usually, only half an inch of wire available so limited
scope for doing better anyway).

Best you can normally do is to over sleeve the old rubber insulation,
and crimp on an extension to give you bit more wire to play with...


No crimps in those days, this was before he bought me our first electric
soldering iron (a second hand Henley Solon 25 watt) in about 1963.
Although we had a tin-man's one that you heated on a spirit stove or gas
ring. :-)

In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 16 September 2019 10:24:52 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant, unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Richard

You can join cable with solder ferrules. (A tube in which cables are soldered using a blowlwmp) No crimping tool needed.
All sizes of cable can be thus joined.

If you aren't careful you melt the insulation,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:58:02 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 16 September 2019 10:24:52 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following the kitchen. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant, unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Richard

You can join cable with solder ferrules. (A tube in which cables are soldered using a blowlwmp) No crimping tool needed.
All sizes of cable can be thus joined.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cable...r-sleeve-kits/

In the main these sleeves are used for connecting earthing pigtails onto
screened signalling cables.

Whilst they can join large diameter cores they are not specifically tested nor
certified by the manufacturer for carrying any level of current.

--

On Tuesday, 17 September 2019 08:33:34 UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:58:02 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 16 September 2019 10:24:52 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When I re-site the CU the cable to the shower will need extending this will be a temporary measure until we do the bathroom following the kitchen.. Once the bathroom is done this cable will be redundant, unfortunately part of this cable will be buried in plaster. I am hoping as it goes through the loft I can pull a few metres of new cable through. If I cannot replace the cable the join will be in an inaccessible place in the loft or buried in the plaster. Can I use crimps in either of these situations and what additional insulation do I need to use eg. heatshrink, self amalgamating tape or other?

Richard

You can join cable with solder ferrules. (A tube in which cables are soldered using a blowlwmp) No crimping tool needed.
All sizes of cable can be thus joined.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cable...r-sleeve-kits/

In the main these sleeves are used for connecting earthing pigtails onto
screened signalling cables.

Whilst they can join large diameter cores they are not specifically tested nor
certified by the manufacturer for carrying any level of current.

--

Of course they are.
The underground electricity distribution system depends on soldered joints. On aluminium as well as copper cables.
I spent years installing them.

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 01:03:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 September 2019 08:33:34 UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:58:02 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

You can join cable with solder ferrules. (A tube in which cables are soldered using a blowlwmp) No crimping tool needed.
All sizes of cable can be thus joined.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cable...r-sleeve-kits/

In the main these sleeves are used for connecting earthing pigtails onto
screened signalling cables.

Whilst they can join large diameter cores they are not specifically tested nor
certified by the manufacturer for carrying any level of current.

--

Of course they are.
The underground electricity distribution system depends on soldered joints. On aluminium as well as copper cables.
I spent years installing them.

Harry those you refer to are from different manufacturers, with them
specifically designed and certified for purpose methods of creating joints to
carry large currents. Jointing now heavily relies on crimps, rather than
sweated joints, even with 800mm^2 conductors

The ones you linked to would expressly not be permitted on any electrical
substation anywhere in the UK network for the purposes of carrying anything
other than stray currents on a signallng cable screen. Like I said that IS
precisely and exclusively what they are used for here, right now.

--