Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....

Round here I've seen cutouts around gate fixings, downpipes as you say, even a sign on the wall. If I was having it done, I'd probably come up with a solution that the insulation company could work with - e.g. standoffs for gate fixings, remove downpipes and fit back later, etc.

I suppose you need some type of hollow wall anchors to fix over ...

Simon.

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....

Has anyone DIY'ed external insulation ?
The cost was far too high when I got a quote.

They always say the thin coat / resin render is a specialist treatment.
I was looking for some DIY cladding system to do my gable wall, which has no windows at all (it faces an entry) - a system that was approved for building regs of course. I did not find anything - was a few years ago.

Simon.

On 02/09/2019 15:05, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....



Because that would cost a fortune, and when the house is sold
at auction a few years later, the new owner finds that rainwater
has got behind the insulation and caused all manner of damage,
and rips it all off. Seen it on Homes under the Hammer.

This would make the relocated gas pipes look a bit silly.

Seen may characterful terraced houses in the Liverpool area
with nice corbelled brickwork, aesthetically ruined with this
subsidised nonsense.

Stick the insulation INSIDE FFS.

On 02/09/2019 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 02/09/2019 15:05, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....



Because that would cost a fortune, and when the house is sold
at auction a few years later, the new owner finds that rainwater
has got behind the insulation and caused all manner of damage,
and rips it all off. Seen it on Homes under the Hammer.

This would make the relocated gas pipes look a bit silly.

Seen may characterful terraced houses in the Liverpool area
with nice corbelled brickwork, aesthetically ruined with this
subsidised nonsense.

Stick the insulation INSIDE FFS.
agreed

On 02/09/2019 17:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 02/09/2019 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 02/09/2019 15:05, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation
projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....



Because that would cost a fortune, and when the house is sold
at auction a few years later, the new owner finds that rainwater
has got behind the insulation and caused all manner of damage,
and rips it all off. Seen it on Homes under the Hammer.

This would make the relocated gas pipes look a bit silly.

Seen may characterful terraced houses in the Liverpool area
with nice corbelled brickwork, aesthetically ruined with this
subsidised nonsense.

Stick the insulation INSIDE FFS.
agreed
They tried to flog it to me and my house is timber framed.....not a good
idea....

On Monday, 2 September 2019 16:45:35 UTC+1, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....

Has anyone DIY'ed external insulation ?
The cost was far too high when I got a quote.

They always say the thin coat / resin render is a specialist treatment.
I was looking for some DIY cladding system to do my gable wall, which has no windows at all (it faces an entry) - a system that was approved for building regs of course. I did not find anything - was a few years ago.

Simon.

I have DIYed it...properly 600mm thick.

On 02/09/2019 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 02/09/2019 15:05, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....



Because that would cost a fortune, and when the house is sold
at auction a few years later, the new owner finds that rainwater
has got behind the insulation and caused all manner of damage,
and rips it all off. Seen it on Homes under the Hammer.

This would make the relocated gas pipes look a bit silly.

Seen may characterful terraced houses in the Liverpool area
with nice corbelled brickwork, aesthetically ruined with this
subsidised nonsense.

Stick the insulation INSIDE FFS.

And houses with small kitchens, bathrooms or boxrooms would lose vital
space. Many boxrooms are *just* big enough for a single bed to fit
across the end and there is no spare space for insulation. Some
bathrooms are designed for a particular length of bath to just fit.

SteveW

On 02/09/2019 16:45, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ...
wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation
projects rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks
pathetic and cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater
downpipes.....

Has anyone DIY'ed external insulation ? The cost was far too high
when I got a quote.

I have dabbled with the numbers and looked at some options for cladding.
I was considering battening over the insulation, then weather boarding
in either real wood, or a modern composite cement fibre board. I found
that the insulation itself can be quite cheap, and even the cladding not
too bad, but its often the sundry extras that add up; such as all the
trim parts for corners and window reveals.

They always say the thin coat / resin render is a specialist
treatment. I was looking for some DIY cladding system to do my gable
wall, which has no windows at all (it faces an entry) - a system that
was approved for building regs of course. I did not find anything -
was a few years ago.

ISTR the main requirement for building regs when making a substantial
change to a thermal element was to achieve a certain U value, which was
not particularly onerous.


--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/09/2019 22:08, Steve Walker wrote:
On 02/09/2019 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 02/09/2019 15:05, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation
projects
rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks pathetic and
cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater downpipes.....



Because that would cost a fortune, and when the house is sold
at auction a few years later, the new owner finds that rainwater
has got behind the insulation and caused all manner of damage,
and rips it all off. Seen it on Homes under the Hammer.

This would make the relocated gas pipes look a bit silly.

Seen may characterful terraced houses in the Liverpool area
with nice corbelled brickwork, aesthetically ruined with this
subsidised nonsense.

Stick the insulation INSIDE FFS.

And houses with small kitchens, bathrooms or boxrooms would lose vital
space. Many boxrooms are *just* big enough for a single bed to fit
across the end and there is no spare space for insulation. Some
bathrooms are designed for a particular length of bath to just fit.

Not only that, for a place you are living in all the time, having the
insulation on the outside of the thermal mass of the building will make
for a more comfortable and stable internal temperature.

Also substantially less disruption to work on the outside of a house
rather than every room inside and also to redecorate everything.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/09/2019 09:58, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/09/2019 16:45, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ...
wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation
projects rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks
pathetic and cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater
downpipes.....

Has anyone DIY'ed external insulation ? The cost was far too high
when I got a quote.

I have dabbled with the numbers and looked at some options for cladding.
I was considering battening over the insulation, then weather boarding
in either real wood, or a modern composite cement fibre board. I found
that the insulation itself can be quite cheap, and even the cladding not
too bad, but its often the sundry extras that add up; such as all the
trim parts for corners and window reveals.


The big problems I saw here (and with many like Victorian terraces with
solid walls) we

a. the roofline: no eaves at all at the back and only small at the front
(where there's no chance of planning permission for one house alone anyway)

b. risk of rot to to joists from interstitial (which the BRE found was
often ignored).

PS

On solid wall insulation the CCC assumes "cost-effective uptake in
around one million homes, focused on properties not connected to the gas
grid, alongside uptake in a further one million homes for wider fuel
poverty benefits" by 2030. I'd like to know how.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 02/09/2019 16:45, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 3:05:28 PM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ...
wrote:
Why can't they just move gas supply pipes in external insulation
projects rather than just boxing them in vented ducts...looks
pathetic and cheap...even seen them do it with rainwater
downpipes.....
Has anyone DIY'ed external insulation ? The cost was far too high
when I got a quote.

I have dabbled with the numbers and looked at some options for cladding.
I was considering battening over the insulation, then weather boarding
in either real wood, or a modern composite cement fibre board. I found
that the insulation itself can be quite cheap, and even the cladding not
too bad, but its often the sundry extras that add up; such as all the
trim parts for corners and window reveals.

The farmhouse was *externally* insulated here in 1995. The original
construction was largely 4" timber frame with nice pargetted render on
expanded metal. Probably itself a replacement for tarred board.
25mm PIR foam was inserted between treated vertical battens and then
painted sawn feather edge on top. The lower section has the same system
but with metal lath rendered over. Window reveals and corners emphasised
with slightly projecting board.
I expect current building regs. will require more than 25mm foam.

Drawbacks to cheap treated feather edge... you must paint both sides
before fitting otherwise it will curl also some knots will fall out.

They always say the thin coat / resin render is a specialist
treatment. I was looking for some DIY cladding system to do my gable
wall, which has no windows at all (it faces an entry) - a system that
was approved for building regs of course. I did not find anything -
was a few years ago.

ISTR the main requirement for building regs when making a substantial
change to a thermal element was to achieve a certain U value, which was
not particularly onerous.



--
Tim Lamb

On 03/09/2019 11:55, Tim Lamb wrote:
I expect current building regs. will require more than 25mm foam.

The tragedy is that they will. Thus preventing many people from
improving insulation.




--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 03/09/2019 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2019 11:55, Tim Lamb wrote:
I expect current building regs. will require more than 25mm foam.

The tragedy is that they will. Thus preventing many people from
improving insulation.

It can be worth talking with your local BCO though since they will often
accept a less than ideal improvement if its the best that can be done in
the circumstances.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 03/09/2019 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2019 11:55, Tim Lamb wrote:
I expect current building regs. will require more than 25mm foam.

The tragedy is that they will. Thus preventing many people from improving
insulation.

It can be worth talking with your local BCO though since they will often
accept a less than ideal improvement if its the best that can be done in
the circumstances.



speshly in an existing building....

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 03/09/2019 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2019 11:55, Tim Lamb wrote:
I expect current building regs. will require more than 25mm foam.
The tragedy is that they will. Thus preventing many people from
improving insulation.

It can be worth talking with your local BCO though since they will
often accept a less than ideal improvement if its the best that can be
done in the circumstances.

On a wood frame workshop, I used 75mm Celotex sheet. Battens secured
with distance screws and topped with feather edge.

For a domestic job I suppose you need to consider a vapour barrier.

--
Tim Lamb