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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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fire wall in loft missing
Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren |
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#2
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fire wall in loft missing
On Friday, 17 May 2019 09:41:23 UTC+1, Darren Chapman wrote:
From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Block (laid flat, rather than two leaves) will be easier to do from one side only, or can be done in stud and plasterboard - possibly double-clad each side. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Fire-rated intumescent foam. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Building Regs may apply if it's forming a new fire barrier, so factor in the cost and time of going through that process. Also Party Wall Act :-) Owain |
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fire wall in loft missing
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#5
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fire wall in loft missing
In article , Darren Chapman
scribeth thus Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren We had to have that done on an old terrace house you could go into your loft and get into anyone else's in that block you could get down into their place and rob 'em! So best not to let a fire do the same, it took a couple of blokes around a sat morning and they were all done around 2 ish. Didn't cost that much either around 8 years odd ago now ... -- Tony Sayer Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself. |
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#6
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: In article , Darren Chapman scribeth thus Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... [[snip]] We had to have that done on an old terrace house you could go into your loft and get into anyone else's in that block you could get down into their place and rob 'em! It's a bit less worrying than that, as it's from a closed bit of their roof space. They could cut a hole in their bathroom ceiling and come over I guess but I'm not overly concerned about that just now  So best not to let a fire do the same, it took a couple of blokes around a sat morning and they were all done around 2 ish. Didn't cost that much either around 8 years odd ago now ... Ok, that's good to know. Do you know if it was "sealed" - thinking back to all my previous places they have had walls, but not airtight sealed with foam or anything. I've no idea if that's normal, but given the inspection that found this was "a bloke up a ladder 10m away with a torch peering" it doesn't feel like that level of detail was cared about... If it can be done from my side only, and not invoke party wall issues that would also be grand. Neighbour is away for many many months at a time in the middle east (not seen him since Oct for example!) so that might be painful :-/ Darren |
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#7
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fire wall in loft missing
On 17/05/2019 11:24, Darren Chapman wrote:
If it can be done from my side only, and not invoke party wall issues that would also be grand. Neighbour is away for many many months at a time in the middle east (not seen him since Oct for example!) so that might be painful :-/ What matters is not whether it can be done from your side but where you are building: if you are building up the party wall then the Act is engaged. See the booklet on the gov.uk site I gave a link to in my earlier post. I suggest you try to get an email address for the neighbour. (An email "signature" should be OK in my opinion for what very little that's worth.) It would of course be very naughty indeed to go ahead without. But FYI there are no actual penalties for not complying with the Act... -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#8
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fire wall in loft missing
Or house loads of asylum seekers up there I guess!
However its not just fire is it, water leaks vermin and all of that can simply move about if there is no barriers. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Darren Chapman scribeth thus Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren We had to have that done on an old terrace house you could go into your loft and get into anyone else's in that block you could get down into their place and rob 'em! So best not to let a fire do the same, it took a couple of blokes around a sat morning and they were all done around 2 ish. Didn't cost that much either around 8 years odd ago now ... -- Tony Sayer Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself. |
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#9
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fire wall in loft missing
I would talk to your council building control about it, pay their fee, get their advice, and make friends with them
[g] On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 9:41:23 AM UTC+1, Darren Chapman wrote: Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren |
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#10
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
George Miles wrote: I would talk to your council building control about it, pay their fee, get their advice, and make friends with them I thought that, but the surveyor said they wouldn't be interested as it was only a tiny bit of wall missing, and it wasn't a significant change *shrugs* It all seems a little vague! Maybe I'll just get a builder round to see what they think and quote and let them get on with it :-( Any one know a builder in the folkestone area who would be interested in a fairly crap little job? ;-) |
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#11
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fire wall in loft missing
do it yourself-
i'd use heavy concrete blocks or bricks and readymix mortar if its a little job [g] ps thinking of putting a smoke alarm in my loft as it joins to the neighbours with 2 man size holes! On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 12:23:24 PM UTC+1, Darren Chapman wrote: In article , George Miles wrote: I would talk to your council building control about it, pay their fee, get their advice, and make friends with them I thought that, but the surveyor said they wouldn't be interested as it was only a tiny bit of wall missing, and it wasn't a significant change *shrugs* It all seems a little vague! Maybe I'll just get a builder round to see what they think and quote and let them get on with it :-( Any one know a builder in the folkestone area who would be interested in a fairly crap little job? ;-) |
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#12
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fire wall in loft missing
On 17/05/2019 12:23, Darren Chapman wrote:
In article , George Miles wrote: I would talk to your council building control about it, pay their fee, get their advice, and make friends with them I thought that, but the surveyor said they wouldn't be interested as it was only a tiny bit of wall missing, and it wasn't a significant change *shrugs* It all seems a little vague! Maybe I'll just get a builder round to see what they think and quote and let them get on with it :-( Any one know a builder in the folkestone area who would be interested in a fairly crap little job? ;-) Apologies for stating the obvious but much depends on the state of the neighbour's ceiling. Eg if you are looking at old lath and plaster in a state where one dropped brick would fill his bath it may call for some care. I'd wondered about fitting a plasterboard "screen" and then building the blocks flush to that. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#13
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
Robin wrote: Apologies for stating the obvious but much depends on the state of the neighbour's ceiling. Eg if you are looking at old lath and plaster in a state where one dropped brick would fill his bath it may call for some care. I'd wondered about fitting a plasterboard "screen" and then building the blocks flush to that. It's likely crap lath and plaster - cottage is from 1890 and mine (or soon to be mine hopefully!) are. Got a couple of pics now of the issue: https://tinyurl.com/wallinplace Thats the front, where it's ok. https://tinyurl.com/missingwall shows the bit that's missing annoyingly :-/ Darren |
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#14
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fire wall in loft missing
"Darren Chapman" wrote in message ... In article , Robin wrote: Apologies for stating the obvious but much depends on the state of the neighbour's ceiling. Eg if you are looking at old lath and plaster in a state where one dropped brick would fill his bath it may call for some care. I'd wondered about fitting a plasterboard "screen" and then building the blocks flush to that. It's likely crap lath and plaster - cottage is from 1890 and mine (or soon to be mine hopefully!) are. Got a couple of pics now of the issue: https://tinyurl.com/wallinplace Thats the front, where it's ok. https://tinyurl.com/missingwall shows the bit that's missing annoyingly :-/ Darren you are lucky it's a purlin roof or you wouldn't have a wall at all ......just a chimney breast or two ....tee hee |
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#15
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fire wall in loft missing
On 17/05/2019 15:19, Darren Chapman wrote:
Got a couple of pics now of the issue: https://tinyurl.com/wallinplace Thats the front, where it's ok. https://tinyurl.com/missingwall shows the bit that's missing annoyingly :-/ It looks as if you have a outgoing roof apex to the right so that wall might have to reach some distance with possibly not much load support beneath. Perhaps a firewall can be made of plasterboard? https://www.british-gypsum.com/white...tions/firewall -- Adrian C |
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#16
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fire wall in loft missing
On 17/05/2019 15:19, Darren Chapman wrote:
In article , Robin wrote: Apologies for stating the obvious but much depends on the state of the neighbour's ceiling. Eg if you are looking at old lath and plaster in a state where one dropped brick would fill his bath it may call for some care. I'd wondered about fitting a plasterboard "screen" and then building the blocks flush to that. It's likely crap lath and plaster - cottage is from 1890 and mine (or soon to be mine hopefully!) are. Got a couple of pics now of the issue: https://tinyurl.com/wallinplace Thats the front, where it's ok. https://tinyurl.com/missingwall shows the bit that's missing annoyingly :-/ I have something very like that in my c1900 semi. Was filled up with breeze blocks my surveyor described it as 'very recent'[*] but I suspect it could have been done before the previous owners moved in 30 years ago. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ubb...ew?usp=sharing [*] The party wall is built in brick and at the top of some of the walling infill with quilt has been added to improve fire resistance and sound insulation. At the rear end there is some modern blockwork which looks very recent and seems satisfactory. -- djc (–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿) No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree. |
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#17
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fire wall in loft missing
"Darren Chapman" wrote in message ... Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren bugger wet trades in the loft....metal stud and fireline board and bags of intumescent material and intumescent foam sealing gaps .....stuff building standards approval ....... |
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#18
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fire wall in loft missing
On Friday, 17 May 2019 09:41:23 UTC+1, Darren Chapman wrote:
Hi all, Buying a house. Mortgage offer has come through and has one condition listed: "Our Solicitor must obtain, and place with the Title Deeds, an undertaking that the following works will be completed within six months from the date of the Mortgage Deed: Complete fire break wall repair. " Doesn't sound too bad... From what the surveyor has said (I've not got the report yet) there is a small part of the wall missing (never built). Is this a case of building a lightweight concrete block wall up to roof level? I think it's only a metre or so long at one end, so tapers to nothing at the eaves. Does it need sealing in anyway to the roof? Can't see how that would work, and there doesn't seem to be any sealing for the rest of it. Internet is inclusive. Survey report might have more info I guess, but I'm not holding my breath! Any advice? Darren Yes the party wall etc act applies. Yes it's just a simple block wall. The point is to stop spread of fire. Lots of such walls have the top gaps cement mortared. If your neighbour doesn't comply & agree you'll need to pay for their solicitor re this job. I daresay a lot of people would do it without even asking, but the PWA forbids that. Read the simple govt guidance on the PWA. NT |
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#19
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
wrote: Yes the party wall etc act applies. Yes it's just a simple block wall. The point is to stop spread of fire. Lots of such walls have the top gaps cement mortared. If your neighbour doesn't comply & agree you'll need to pay for their solicitor re this job. I daresay a lot of people would do it without even asking, but the PWA forbids that. Read the simple govt guidance on the PWA. Ok, ta for that. Looking at it, the wall required is a bigger than I first thought to its more of a job than I realised. Not something I'll be diying I suspect :-( PWA looks simple enough (if they agree!). Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. That's all I know :-( Sounds like if I can't get in touch, than I have to appoint two surveyors - one for me, one for them so oversee the work. Although how that would work given there is no access to next door I'm not sure :-( Gah, thought this house purchase was going too well. hrmm. Cheers, Darren |
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#20
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fire wall in loft missing
In article , Darren Chapman
scribeth thus In article , wrote: Yes the party wall etc act applies. Yes it's just a simple block wall. The point is to stop spread of fire. Lots of such walls have the top gaps cement mortared. If your neighbour doesn't comply & agree you'll need to pay for their solicitor re this job. I daresay a lot of people would do it without even asking, but the PWA forbids that. Read the simple govt guidance on the PWA. Ok, ta for that. Looking at it, the wall required is a bigger than I first thought to its more of a job than I realised. Not something I'll be diying I suspect :-( PWA looks simple enough (if they agree!). Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. That's all I know :-( Sounds like if I can't get in touch, than I have to appoint two surveyors - one for me, one for them so oversee the work. Although how that would work given there is no access to next door I'm not sure :-( Gah, thought this house purchase was going too well. hrmm. Cheers, Darren When we did the one i referred to we didn't bother asking the neighbours it could all and was all done from our side. It was a bit tight to get it all in there but a couple of young fit men did it. In answer to the previous enquiry I don't recall them putting anything specialist in they just used mortar to seal it. I do remember a more industrial building that we split in half last year using sheets of plasterboard and IIRC a light steel pressed sort of joist type frame and they did use a gun applied mastic sealant on that one.. -- Tony Sayer Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself. |
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#21
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: When we did the one i referred to we didn't bother asking the neighbours it could all and was all done from our side. It was a bit tight to get it all in there but a couple of young fit men did it. yeah, that's tempting, and would be a lot easier given his unknown whereabouts! Feels wrong though, and possibly risky :-( In answer to the previous enquiry I don't recall them putting anything specialist in they just used mortar to seal it. Ok, that's good to know. cheers, Darren |
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#22
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fire wall in loft missing
On Saturday, 18 May 2019 14:51:15 UTC+1, Darren Chapman wrote:
In article , tabbypurr wrote: Yes the party wall etc act applies. Yes it's just a simple block wall. The point is to stop spread of fire. Lots of such walls have the top gaps cement mortared. If your neighbour doesn't comply & agree you'll need to pay for their solicitor re this job. I daresay a lot of people would do it without even asking, but the PWA forbids that. Read the simple govt guidance on the PWA. Ok, ta for that. Looking at it, the wall required is a bigger than I first thought to its more of a job than I realised. Not something I'll be diying I suspect :-( PWA looks simple enough (if they agree!). Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. That's all I know :-( Sounds like if I can't get in touch, than I have to appoint two surveyors - one for me, one for them so oversee the work. Although how that would work given there is no access to next door I'm not sure :-( Gah, thought this house purchase was going too well. hrmm. Cheers, Darren Neighbours normally don't agree to your works, if they do they have to pay their share and for their solicitor. NT |
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fire wall in loft missing
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#24
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fire wall in loft missing
On 18/05/2019 18:09, Robin wrote:
On 18/05/2019 17:44, wrote: On Saturday, 18 May 2019 14:51:15 UTC+1, Darren ChapmanÂ* wrote: In article , Â* tabbypurr wrote: Yes the party wall etc act applies. Yes it's just a simple block wall. The point is to stop spread of fire. Lots of such walls have the top gaps cement mortared. If your neighbour doesn't comply & agree you'll need to pay for their solicitor re this job. I daresay a lot of people would do it without even asking, but the PWA forbids that. Read the simple govt guidance on the PWA. Ok, ta for that. Looking at it, the wall required is a bigger than I first thought to its more of a job than I realised. Not something I'll be diying I suspect :-( PWA looks simple enough (if they agree!). Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. That's all I know :-( Sounds like if I can't get in touch, than I have to appoint two surveyors - one for me, one for them so oversee the work. Although how that would work given there is no access to next door I'm not sure :-( Gah, thought this house purchase was going too well. hrmm. Cheers, Darren Neighbours normally don't agree to your works, if they do they have to pay their share and for their solicitor. IME (a) neighbours often do agree to Party Wall Act works - with or without a surveyor; (b) if they agree they don't /have/ to pay anything if they don't want to - even if they may gain some benefit from the work; and (c) PWA 'surveyors'[1] are usually chartered surveyors, structural engineers, architects or others with construction qualifications (and insurance to match).Â* Some lawyers specialise in PWA work but I've yet to come across one who dons a hard hat and boots. Bugger, I forgot (d) if PWA surveyors are appointed the person who wants the work done must pay for them all - which in worst case is 3 (own, neighbour's and a third surveyor who decides iof the first 2 can't agree). The neighbours pay nothing. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#25
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
wrote: Neighbours normally don't agree to your works, if they do they have to pay their share and for their solicitor. Not expecting him to pay tbh. I need to sort this (and having seen it, I want to!) but I also don't really want to **** off my new neighbour if I can help it, hence why I'd like to get his go ahead is possible. Cheers, Darren |
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fire wall in loft missing
On 18/05/2019 15:30, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2019 13:51:13 -0000 (UTC), (Darren Chapman) wrote: Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. Have you written to him - by post? Would be careless of him to have no way to receive things such as a summons for speeding while away. If he's away and not often home, ask yourself how often he's likely to go up into his loft space, is he aware of the absence of a firewall, and would he or anyone else notice if one suddenly appeared in his absence. One buggeration is that it's always a good idea as a part of any work on a party wall to get photos of the neighbour's property before starting so you have a record of pre-existing cracks etc. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#27
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fire wall in loft missing
In article ,
Robin wrote: On 18/05/2019 15:30, Chris Hogg wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2019 13:51:13 -0000 (UTC), (Darren Chapman) wrote: Complication is that the owner of the other property is hardly ever in the country, and I can't find any details on how to contact him. Last seen in Oct, and believed to be working in Iran as ex mil security for an oil company. Have you written to him - by post? Would be careless of him to have no way to receive things such as a summons for speeding while away. No, not yet. I don't own the house yet - just got the mortgage offer and the survey sorted, and this has raised this issue. I know he is away most of the time as I'm currently the tennant in the place - my landlord is selling up. He has agreed a decent price and has agreed not to put the place on the market and give me notice, but he isn't willing to pay any more (I'm happy with this, getting it for a decent price anyway). If he's away and not often home, ask yourself how often he's likely to go up into his loft space, is he aware of the absence of a firewall, and would he or anyone else notice if one suddenly appeared in his absence. One buggeration is that it's always a good idea as a part of any work on a party wall to get photos of the neighbour's property before starting so you have a record of pre-existing cracks etc. Yes, I've considered just doing it. When I thought it was a small area missing I was up for that, and would probably do it myself. Now it's clear that it's more than that I think I'll need to get someone in. I can do a bit in the loft, but that level of building work in a hot loft isn't going to work with my asthma :-( Will he ever notice if I just do it? No idea. Would he care? Probably not. I'm putting all my cash into this (wasn't planning on buying just yet, but couldn't pass up the chance!) so I'd rather not end up in a drawn out legal battle. Also, would quite like to get on with him the few days a year he is around! Cheers, Darren |
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