I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask. Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen. I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall. In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket. The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others. I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask. Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen. I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall. In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket. The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others. I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

Yes they often are load bearing even in traditional houses.
Timber frame houses have all load bearing walls "stud".

On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?

Even if it isn't load-bearing for directly vertical forces, it may be preventing the beam - or your house - from twisting like a corkscrew or sliding like a paralellogram into next door.

Owain

harry wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask. Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen. I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall. In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket. The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others. I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

Yes they often are load bearing even in traditional houses.
Timber frame houses have all load bearing walls "stud".


I'm afraid it's a very boring breezeblock and brick 1980's cube house.

wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?

Even if it isn't load-bearing for directly vertical forces, it may be preventing the beam - or your house - from twisting like a corkscrew or sliding like a paralellogram into next door.

Owain


Next-door wouldn't be too chuffed about that :-) I'm hoping that the
breeze block walls downstairs (this is the only bit of stud downstairs)
would prevent that. There is also breeze block parallel to this bit, on
the other side of the stairs. Perhaps I ought to 'get someone in'.

I think I'd want a signature of an expert on a bit of paper first here.
Somebody in Kingston did something like this, then went on holiday and the
whole insides collapsed when they were away.

Unless one is sure of the history of a property, never expect people to do
the sensible thing!
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask. Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen. I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall. In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket. The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others. I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

Yes they often are load bearing even in traditional houses.
Timber frame houses have all load bearing walls "stud".


I'm afraid it's a very boring breezeblock and brick 1980's cube house.

On Friday, 5 April 2019 13:01:55 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Perhaps I ought to 'get someone in'.

Building Control will probably want to see a structural engineer's sign-off for the hole in the wall and any lintel required.

Owain

On 05/04/2019 12:39, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask.Â* Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen.Â* I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall.Â* In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket.Â* The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others.Â* I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?Â* I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

Whether yours is or not I don't know but they certainly can be. A
friend has a dormer style house. The main bedroom has a vertical stud
partition wall with "Dead space" behind it - between the stud wall and
the sloping roof (Other smaller bedrooms have the sloping roof
intruding into the room).

Investigations into using the "dead space" has revealed the the vertical
struts in the stud partition wall are helping to support the roof.

--
Chris B (News)

On 05/04/2019 12:39, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

I doubt it,

Yup, contrary to popular belief, stud walls can be load bearing.

but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask.Â* Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen.Â* I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall.Â* In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket.Â* The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others.Â* I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

Photo would help.

However inch and a half square sounds unlikely to be structural.
Normally it would be 4x2 or better.

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?Â* I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

The board would provide none of the structural strength, in a structural
stud wall, its the uprights that do the work normally.

A straight run of stairs will normally be adequately supported at the
top and bottom. However they might also provide a pulin style timber at
mid span to add rigidity. (stairs that "wind" (i.e. turn a corner) will
need proper support at the turn.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris B wrote:

Investigations into using the "dead space" has revealed the the vertical
struts in the stud partition wall are helping to support the roof.

But the struts in a paramount wall are likely to only be 1.5" square
timber, not 4x2"

On 05/04/2019 14:46, wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 13:01:55 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Perhaps I ought to 'get someone in'.

Building Control will probably want to see a structural engineer's sign-off for the hole in the wall and any lintel required.

Owain

On the other hand they'll have no interest if it is non-loadbearing
(unless it is for fire purposes). So as the OP is not able to determine
by himself, the key is, as he suggested, to "get someone in" to at least
determine that.

Fire purposes should be pretty obvious from a quick look at the building
regs to see why and where a wall may be required.

SteveW

In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask.

Very much so.

My Victorian house had doors between front and back ground floor rooms,
within a lath and plaster wall. Timber studs, of course. Structural
engineer did the calcs and I ended up with an RSJ in there when I wanted
it all one room. His calcs also said the original studs were distinctly
marginal for the load.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/04/2019 12:39, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it,

Aboslutely it can

Many houses are totally timber framed.

Mine is, and some of the stud walls are much closer studs and feature
double skins of plywood AND plasterboard to prevent bowing

The oputer walls are all 6x3 skinned with plywood for structural strentgh

but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask.Â* Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen.Â* I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall.Â* In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket.Â* The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others.Â* I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I'd pay a couple of hundred to a structural engineer.


I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?Â* I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)
Stuids dont mind wet.

The boarding is at best only there to prevent bowing and 'slender column
failure' (Euler)

--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 05/04/2019 12:39, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it,

Aboslutely it can

Many houses are totally timber framed.

Mine is, and some of the stud walls are much closer studs and feature
double skins of plywood AND plasterboard to prevent bowing

The oputer walls are all 6x3 skinned with plywood for structural strentgh

but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask. Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen. I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall. In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket. The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others. I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I'd pay a couple of hundred to a structural engineer.


I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)
Stuids dont mind wet.

The boarding is at best only there to prevent bowing and 'slender column
failure' (Euler)


I suspect the 1.5" square "studs" are only there for something to
nail the boards to...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

This isn't yours, is it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...herts-47838848

Owain

Wrote in message:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

This isn't yours, is it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...herts-47838848

Owain



Maybe a past tense or two needed in there...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 05/04/2019 15:15, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris B wrote:

Investigations into using the "dead space" has revealed the the
vertical struts in the stud partition wall are helping to support the
roof.

But the struts in a paramount wall are likely to only be 1.5" square
timber, not 4x2"

While probably true, Chris was addressing the main question about
whether a stud wall can be load bearing. A dwarf wall replacing a pulin
on a roof is a common example of one that will be.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/04/2019 21:30, wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 12:39:27 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it? I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

This isn't yours, is it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...herts-47838848

Owain


Looks like the lady of the house wanted full width bifold doors
downstairs to 'make the garden part of the house', judging by
all the acroprops along that huge steel beam.

Now she has full width bedrooms open to the garden too.

On Friday, 5 April 2019 14:51:09 UTC+1, Chris B wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:39, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I doubt it, but I want to saw a big hole in one, so I need to ask.Â* Our
stairs go up the middle of the house, at 90 degrees to all the beams.
There is a breeze block wall on one side, and a stud wall on the other,
which continues down into the kitchen.Â* I'd like to open up the space
under the stairs a bit by removing a big chunk of the stud wall.Â* In the
void, above this wall is a larger-than-the-others beam at 90 degrees to
all the others, and fastened to another very large one in the region of
the top of the stairs by a metal bracket.Â* The beams in one upstairs
room are similarly fastened to this first large beam, so they are
aligned with all the others.Â* I'm assuming that the paramount (I think
it is called) board, and the vertical bits of wood that hold it in place
(about an inch and a half square section) are not supporting this large
beam; but before I start sawing through it all, I'd like to hear some
opinions :-)

I know this description probably doesn't help at all, but is it ever the
case that a paramount board stud wall can support a beam going across
the top of it?Â* I mean, if it ever got wet, it would be catastrophic :-)

Whether yours is or not I don't know but they certainly can be. A
friend has a dormer style house. The main bedroom has a vertical stud
partition wall with "Dead space" behind it - between the stud wall and
the sloping roof (Other smaller bedrooms have the sloping roof
intruding into the room).

Investigations into using the "dead space" has revealed the the vertical
struts in the stud partition wall are helping to support the roof.

Our bathroom had exactly that kind of arrangement. A previous owner
decided to open out the "wasted" space. Soon afterwards the roof
started moving downhill.
The rapidly bodged repair transferred the roof load to a single floor joist
which was not strong enough for the job (instead of about six joists when
the stud wall was doing its job) and the downstairs ceiling
sagged.
We now have steel in all the right places.

John


John