Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with
one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

not much point then....

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with
one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

not much point then....

would keep your drains fresh though ......

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

Unless you can get the hardware for free or close, you'll be losing money.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

Unless you can get the hardware for free or close, you'll be losing money.

ok thanks

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter. How much would a flush of the toilet generate? Could such
a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that combi boilers
and electric showers fail to work?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

alan_m wrote:

Jim GM4DHJ wrote:

Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator

How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them 24x7

Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60s
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been converted
in the 40s to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate difficult.
Cant access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesnt seem as atmospheric as one with a traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

GH

Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them 24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the
water and lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

It was refurbished (by some young Royal Engineers) and was working when I
visited, probably about 25 years ago.

I think one problem was that there wasn't much water - still isn't - and
they are not allowed to use river water, just two springs.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the
water and lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

The restoration was actually in the 1970s. I think the turbine is still
working.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?


There are isolated properties with no mains electric and water from a
very long pipe going up the hill. Often the pressure is considerable
verging on dangerous and the supply is virtually unlimited. It would
work for them I guess.

Bill

On 01/12/2018 11:39, Bob Eager wrote:
Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

The restoration was actually in the 1970s. I think the turbine is still
working.

Thanks. I've worked out that I visited in 1971 so very probably before
the restoration.

And with apologies for yet more on Kipling, I checked my copy of his
autobiography which had much more in the scheme than I'd recalled:

"The House was not of a type to present to servants by lamp or
candle-light. Hence electricity, which in 1902 was a serious affair. We
chanced, at a week-end visit, to meet Sir William Willcocks, who had
designed the Assouan Dam €” a trifling affair on the Nile. Not to be
over-crowed, we told him of our project for declutching the water-wheel
from an ancient mill at the end of our garden, and using its
microscopical mill-pond to run a turbine. That was enough! €˜Dam? said
he. €˜You dont know anything about dams or turbines. Ill come and
look. That Monday morn he came with us, explored the brook and the
mill-sluit, and foretold truly the exact amount of horse-power that we
should get out of our turbine €”€˜Four and a half and no more. But he
called me Egyptian names for the state of my brook, which, till then, I
had deemed picturesque. €˜Its all messed up with trees and bushes. Cut
em down and slope the banks to one in three. €˜Lend me a couple of
Fellahîn Battalions and Ill begin, I said.

He said also; €˜Dont run your light cable on poles. Bury it. So we got
a deep-sea cable which had failed under test at twelve hundred volts €”
our voltage being one hundred and ten €” and laid him in a trench from
the Mill to the house, a full furlong, where he worked for a quarter of
a century. At the end of that time he was a little fatigued, and the
turbine had worn as much as one-sixteenth of an inch on her bearings. So
we gave them both honourable demission €” and never again got anything so
faithful.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902..





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60s
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been converted
in the 40s to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate difficult.
Cant access the location now as the person I knew there has died..


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesnt seem as atmospheric as one with a traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did.


NT

On 01/12/2018 11:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them
24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

It might compensate for the excessive "water rates" charged to people
without meters, which you can't challenge as rates don't exist any more.

--
Max Demian

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesnt have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesnt have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

On 01/12/2018 14:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 01/12/2018 11:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run
them 24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

It might compensate for the excessive "water rates" charged to people
without meters, which you can't challenge as rates don't exist any more.

It only goes to show how challeneged some poeole are mathematically to
even think that the cost of the generator would ever be repaid.

Same as those roads that would extract energy from passing cars...



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 01/12/2018 14:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 01/12/2018 11:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them
24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

It might compensate for the excessive "water rates" charged to people
without meters, which you can't challenge as rates don't exist any more.

It only goes to show how challeneged some poeole are mathematically to
even think that the cost of the generator would ever be repaid.

Same as those roads that would extract energy from passing cars...



beg your pardon ....I have a C in higher maths 1970 ....tee hee

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

I own two baths and two showers .........and four cludgies .....

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked
an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me
as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think)
1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to
replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60s
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been
converted
in the 40s to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and
mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate difficult.
Cant access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesnt seem as atmospheric as one with a
traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone
depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around
10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still
remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to live
with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did.

I ran the entire house on a 10A supply, builders temporary supply,
when I had moved into the house I was building as soon as that
was possible, before the CU had been done. No gas for anything.
Full wall oven and ceramic hob and mains pressure storage hot water.

I only stopped doing that when the electricity
supply authority chucked a tantrum.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked
an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me
as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think)
1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to
replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60's
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been
converted
in the 40's to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and
mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate
difficult.
Can't access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesn't seem as atmospheric as one with a
traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone
depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around
10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal
demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still
remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to
live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did.

I ran the entire house on a 10A supply, builders temporary supply,
when I had moved into the house I was building as soon as that
was possible, before the CU had been done. No gas for anything.
Full wall oven and ceramic hob and mains pressure storage hot water.

I only stopped doing that when the electricity
supply authority chucked a tantrum.

shocking disregard for the law .......

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

I own two baths

Both stuffed with coal.

and two showers .........

Pity that coal makes those impossible to use.

and four cludgies .....

It was always obvious you are a very ****ty person.

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water
and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge
batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked
an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years
ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me
as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think)
1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to
replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid
60's
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been
converted
in the 40's to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still
in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and
mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate
difficult.
Can't access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesn't seem as atmospheric as one with a
traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and
we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone
depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around
10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal
demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I
still remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough
to live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants
did.

I ran the entire house on a 10A supply, builders temporary supply,
when I had moved into the house I was building as soon as that
was possible, before the CU had been done. No gas for anything.
Full wall oven and ceramic hob and mains pressure storage hot water.

I only stopped doing that when the electricity
supply authority chucked a tantrum.

shocking disregard for the law .......

Only got the one shock when pointing the block work in the dark.
I used planks on 44 gallon drums as scaffolding and PAR38 flood
lights on that at night. They didn’t like the bouncing around when
running and when the light went out, I assumed it was just another
blown bulb, so ran my hand down the cord to find the bulb holder.
Turned out that the cord had pulled out of the bulb holder and
that was why the light had gone out and I ended up with the
bare wires in the palm of my hand.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

I own two baths

Both stuffed with coal.

and two showers .........

Pity that coal makes those impossible to use.

and four cludgies .....

It was always obvious you are a very ****ty person.

regular as clockwork ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=type...w=1272&bih=625

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water
and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge
batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he
asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years
ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised
me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think)
1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to
replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid
60's
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been
converted
in the 40's to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it
had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still
in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and
mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate
difficult.
Can't access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesn't seem as atmospheric as one with a
traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and
we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone
depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide
around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal
demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I
still remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy
enough to live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the
occupants did.

I ran the entire house on a 10A supply, builders temporary supply,
when I had moved into the house I was building as soon as that
was possible, before the CU had been done. No gas for anything.
Full wall oven and ceramic hob and mains pressure storage hot water.

I only stopped doing that when the electricity
supply authority chucked a tantrum.

shocking disregard for the law .......

Only got the one shock when pointing the block work in the dark.
I used planks on 44 gallon drums as scaffolding and PAR38 flood
lights on that at night. They didn’t like the bouncing around when
running and when the light went out, I assumed it was just another
blown bulb, so ran my hand down the cord to find the bulb holder.
Turned out that the cord had pulled out of the bulb holder and
that was why the light had gone out and I ended up with the
bare wires in the palm of my hand.

and you deserved it ......

Bill Wright wrote:

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?


There are isolated properties with no mains electric and water from a
very long pipe going up the hill. Often the pressure is considerable
verging on dangerous and the supply is virtually unlimited. It would
work for them I guess.

Bill
Our water has a head of about 120metres and is regulated down at the
stopcock. But we do have mains electricity, so I don't bother to make
use of the excess 6bar.

--

Roger Hayter

On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 06:34:35 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


and four cludgies .....

It was always obvious you are a very ****ty person.

Oh, the IRONY! LOL

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

wrote:
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland
Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still
remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to
live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did.


With only a Lister generator available that gave about 2.0 kW at a push it
was something I initially grew up with as well though to be fair heating
,hot water and most cooking was provided by a Rayburn.
For when that was allowed to rest in Summer a small Belling cooker could
be used,this had a selector switch that would only allow ring,hot plate and
oven combinations so it could run off a 5 amp socket.

Mothers first washing machine could only be run if the heating element was
turned off so she was grateful when the mains arrived.

I dont think people who have always had 3kW available from one or more
sockets in a couple of rooms simultaneously realise how much physical
machinery would be needed to provide it from ones own resources
which puts ideas like generating power from the kitchen tap right into daft
idea territory.
A Watermill like depicted in Constable paintings for every household puts
it into perspective.

Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household is so
the skill of personal demand
management is learned my the masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the
future to continue to switch things on at the most conventional time like
we can now.

GH

On Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:00:58 UTC, Marland wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still
remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to
live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did..


With only a Lister generator available that gave about 2.0 kW at a push it
was something I initially grew up with as well though to be fair heating
,hot water and most cooking was provided by a Rayburn.
For when that was allowed to rest in Summer a small Belling cooker could
be used,this had a selector switch that would only allow ring,hot plate and
oven combinations so it could run off a 5 amp socket.

Mothers first washing machine could only be run if the heating element was
turned off so she was grateful when the mains arrived.

We had similar for a while, plugging a kettle in caused the motors to stall.. They did boil, albeit on reduced voltage. Upgrading to a 7kW genny was pure luxury. No electric start.

I dont think people who have always had 3kW available from one or more
sockets in a couple of rooms simultaneously realise how much physical
machinery would be needed to provide it from ones own resources
which puts ideas like generating power from the kitchen tap right into daft
idea territory.
A Watermill like depicted in Constable paintings for every household puts
it into perspective.

Quite. One person recently showed zero grasp of what it would be like to live on wind & solar when 98% of the generating capacity went down. They thought the lighting would all stay on.

Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household is so
the skill of personal demand
management is learned my the masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the
future to continue to switch things on at the most conventional time like
we can now.

GH

I think it's to justify excessive price rise over time while being able to blame householders for not managing their energy use better now that they have the tools to do so. Remote reading is sensible, but as ever our national politics manages to turn it into another way to scam people.


NT

On 02/12/2018 00:00, Marland wrote:
Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household
is so the skill of personal demand management is learned my the
masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the future to continue to
switch things on at the most conventional time like we can now.

No.

The ideas is to centrally conttrol all electricity consumption so teht
the populatins is powerless to ersist a government who selective
switches off power for political purposes.


IT and the internmet, started out as a joyous leaop of freedom and the
ability to communicate worldwide, It has now been incorporated into the
Party to be used as the biegeeste snopper ever created.

Be very afraid.

THEY are.

--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2018 00:00, Marland wrote:
Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household
is so the skill of personal demand management is learned my the
masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the future to continue to
switch things on at the most conventional time like we can now.

No.

The ideas is to centrally conttrol all electricity consumption so teht
the populatins is powerless to ersist a government who selective
switches off power for political purposes.

When I said €œpay€� I did not just mean in financial terms but lifestyle
change as much as anything so no argument there.


IT and the internmet, started out as a joyous leaop of freedom and the
ability to communicate worldwide, It has now been incorporated into the
Party to be used as the biegeeste snopper ever created.

Be very afraid.

THEY are.

I suspect by the time they get fully introduced I will be beyond caring but
the supposedly bright future of driverless vehicles wont be so pleasant on
the morning the powers that be decide when ,where and how far you can go at
their discretion,not yours.

And all those people who voluntary download that driving monitoring app
that is promoted by an insurance company as a sort of family game are
taking the first steps that once such things achieve a critical mass
as other companies do the same they will become a requirement,initially to
get insured and then use of such a tracker will become required by law.
Well you can **** of Aviva.
We cannot be that far away from vehicles to have a compulsory dashcam
judging by the constant appeals from the Police for footage, initially they
are a good idea to sort out incidents between individual road users but are
fast becoming a surveillance service for the Police. In most cases that
will be for societys good
but one day some poor sod who doesnt fit the Police or their masters
agenda will done for withholding evidence or whatever legal term gets
dredged up.

GH

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

Naw pelton wheel turbines where common place by then. If it had been
1802 on the other hand... a "traditional" water wheel would have been
more likely.

Cragside, Northumberland was the first house lit by electricty around
the 1870's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cragside

Rydale Hall was another but a bit later.

Turning into the 1900's water was been quite ingeneiously used to
provide compressed and electricity at the bottom of Brewery Shaft.
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ft/index.shtml

To put some figures on pressure and water volumes the REUK hydro
power calculator indicates that to get about 1 kW of electricty you
need a 40 m head (approx 4 bar) and a flow rate of 5 litres per
SECOND.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 02/12/2018 04:08, wrote:


Quite. One person recently showed zero grasp of what it would be like to live on wind & solar when 98% of the generating capacity went down. They thought the lighting would all stay on.


Well I did too - thinking such systems had backup. Do solar/wind systems
really have no electricity storage or alternative source?

Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household is so
the skill of personal demand
management is learned my the masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the
future to continue to switch things on at the most conventional time like
we can now.


Difficult to predict - there's no one rationality. Some will try to save
money, some save 'the planet', some it'll appeal to avoiding waste, some
will set an arbitrary level of consumption and ramp up to that. Etc. Who
does what and why will unfold once decent scale research has been done
in the UK.


I think it's to justify excessive price rise over time while being able to blame householders for not managing their energy use better now that they have the tools to do so. Remote reading is sensible, but as ever our national politics manages to turn it into another way to scam people.


In fairness, there might be some reason to do with efficiency and
awareness. But it wouldn't surprise me if the main motivation was/is
profit in the short term, and data sales into the future.


--
Cheers, Rob

Dave Liquorice wrote:

to get about 1 kW of electricty you
need a 40 m head (approx 4 bar) and a flow rate of 5 litres per
SECOND.

But handy if you live in the Rockies, with 200ft head of water at
hundreds of gallons per minute ...

https://youtu.be/61lZn1sUkzE

On Sunday, 2 December 2018 12:06:07 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 02/12/2018 04:08, tabbypurr wrote:


Quite. One person recently showed zero grasp of what it would be like to live on wind & solar when 98% of the generating capacity went down. They thought the lighting would all stay on.


Well I did too - thinking such systems had backup. Do solar/wind systems
really have no electricity storage or alternative source?

I was talking of nationwide systems, not single dwelling. Battery storage on that scale is impossible.


Still isnt the idea of getting a smart meter into every household is so
the skill of personal demand
management is learned my the masses or they will pay exorbitantly in the
future to continue to switch things on at the most conventional time like
we can now.


Difficult to predict - there's no one rationality. Some will try to save
money, some save 'the planet', some it'll appeal to avoiding waste, some
will set an arbitrary level of consumption and ramp up to that. Etc. Who
does what and why will unfold once decent scale research has been done
in the UK.

I can't see users changing their electricity consumption merely because they have a meter that expresses power use in 2 ways rather than 1


I think it's to justify excessive price rise over time while being able to blame householders for not managing their energy use better now that they have the tools to do so. Remote reading is sensible, but as ever our national politics manages to turn it into another way to scam people.


In fairness, there might be some reason to do with efficiency and
awareness. But it wouldn't surprise me if the main motivation was/is
profit in the short term, and data sales into the future.

Smart meters permit remote reading, but don't deliver any other form of efficiency improvement. Profit - who do you think lobbied for them to get fitted? The manufacturers of smart meters are enjoying themselves.

Remote reading is sensible & they're much more secure. The rest bundled with them is a mess. There are basic safety problems, failure to display the relevant data, installing meters that don't work with other suppliers, dishonest promotion, and some people have other concerns too.


NT