Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with
one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

not much point then....

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries with
one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.


NT

not much point then....

would keep your drains fresh though ......

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.

--
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On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60s
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been converted
in the 40s to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate difficult.
Cant access the location now as the person I knew there has died.


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesnt seem as atmospheric as one with a traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

GH

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:37:01 UTC, Marland wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and
lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed what
he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening, which
was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902..





Noting we have moved away from the OPs suggestion into more practical
territory the use of Turbines became popular around that period to replace
Water Wheels on many mills around that time.
Near to where I grew up a mill that by the time I knew it in the mid 60s
was no longer milling but had two turbines in place, one had been converted
in the 40s to drive a DC generator but that by the time I knew it had
fallen into disuse with the coming of mains electric.
I last visited the site about 5 years ago and the turbines were still in
place but the supply leat and sluices
had collapsed beyond easy repair and due to the sale of land leat and mill
are now in different ownership making any attempt to reinstate difficult.
Cant access the location now as the person I knew there has died..


Not too far from where I am there is a functioning Mill with turbines
installed in 1904 that is open to the public.
https://sturminsternewton-museum.co.uk/mill/

I have to say it just doesnt seem as atmospheric as one with a traditional
water wheel,fortunately there is one of those not far away either and we
get our flour from them.
https://www.alderholtmill.co.uk

Production was halted this summer due to water shortage so anyone depending
on small scale hydro should account for that possibility.
And that is before you work out how such a mill may only provide around 10
kilowatt so people used to mains supply would have to use personal demand
management in the household.

GH

10kW is about 40A, so demand management would not be a challenge. I still remember a load of flats each on a 5A supply. That was easy enough to live with once you knew how, but I don't think any of the occupants did.


NT

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the
water and lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

It was refurbished (by some young Royal Engineers) and was working when I
visited, probably about 25 years ago.

I think one problem was that there wasn't much water - still isn't - and
they are not allowed to use river water, just two springs.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 01/12/2018 09:28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:48:12 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 1 December 2018 08:31:58 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the
water and lecy bills?

they were available in the 1940s. One could perhaps charge batteries
with one eventually. If you have electricity they're pointless.

Rudyard Kipling had one at his house in Sussex. Reportedly, he asked an
expert (Sir William Willcox) for advice. Willcox had just completed
what he described as "a trifling affair on the Nile" - the first Aswan
Dam.

He got enough power to charge batteries for lighting each evening,
which was what he wanted.


Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

The restoration was actually in the 1970s. I think the turbine is still
working.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 01/12/2018 11:39, Bob Eager wrote:
Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

The restoration was actually in the 1970s. I think the turbine is still
working.

Thanks. I've worked out that I visited in 1971 so very probably before
the restoration.

And with apologies for yet more on Kipling, I checked my copy of his
autobiography which had much more in the scheme than I'd recalled:

"The House was not of a type to present to servants by lamp or
candle-light. Hence electricity, which in 1902 was a serious affair. We
chanced, at a week-end visit, to meet Sir William Willcocks, who had
designed the Assouan Dam €” a trifling affair on the Nile. Not to be
over-crowed, we told him of our project for declutching the water-wheel
from an ancient mill at the end of our garden, and using its
microscopical mill-pond to run a turbine. That was enough! €˜Dam? said
he. €˜You dont know anything about dams or turbines. Ill come and
look. That Monday morn he came with us, explored the brook and the
mill-sluit, and foretold truly the exact amount of horse-power that we
should get out of our turbine €”€˜Four and a half and no more. But he
called me Egyptian names for the state of my brook, which, till then, I
had deemed picturesque. €˜Its all messed up with trees and bushes. Cut
em down and slope the banks to one in three. €˜Lend me a couple of
Fellahîn Battalions and Ill begin, I said.

He said also; €˜Dont run your light cable on poles. Bury it. So we got
a deep-sea cable which had failed under test at twelve hundred volts €”
our voltage being one hundred and ten €” and laid him in a trench from
the Mill to the house, a full furlong, where he worked for a quarter of
a century. At the end of that time he was a little fatigued, and the
turbine had worn as much as one-sixteenth of an inch on her bearings. So
we gave them both honourable demission €” and never again got anything so
faithful.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 09:50:17 +0000, Robin wrote:

Some of it was still in place when I visited the house many years ago,
including the cast iron turbine - which I remember as it surprised me as
I'd been expecting a water wheel would have been used in (I think) 1902.

Naw pelton wheel turbines where common place by then. If it had been
1802 on the other hand... a "traditional" water wheel would have been
more likely.

Cragside, Northumberland was the first house lit by electricty around
the 1870's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cragside

Rydale Hall was another but a bit later.

Turning into the 1900's water was been quite ingeneiously used to
provide compressed and electricity at the bottom of Brewery Shaft.
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ft/index.shtml

To put some figures on pressure and water volumes the REUK hydro
power calculator indicates that to get about 1 kW of electricty you
need a 40 m head (approx 4 bar) and a flow rate of 5 litres per
SECOND.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

to get about 1 kW of electricty you
need a 40 m head (approx 4 bar) and a flow rate of 5 litres per
SECOND.

But handy if you live in the Rockies, with 200ft head of water at
hundreds of gallons per minute ...

https://youtu.be/61lZn1sUkzE

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

Unless you can get the hardware for free or close, you'll be losing money.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

Unless you can get the hardware for free or close, you'll be losing money.

ok thanks

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter. How much would a flush of the toilet generate? Could such
a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that combi boilers
and electric showers fail to work?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

Jim GM4DHJ wrote:

Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator

How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them 24x7

Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them 24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

On 01/12/2018 11:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run them
24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

It might compensate for the excessive "water rates" charged to people
without meters, which you can't challenge as rates don't exist any more.

--
Max Demian

On 01/12/2018 14:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 01/12/2018 11:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns explained on 01/12/2018 :
The implication was that people *without* a water meter could run
them 24x7

With in mind that all that water has to be treated and paid for to be
pumped - it seems a very inefficient and wasteful idea.

It might compensate for the excessive "water rates" charged to people
without meters, which you can't challenge as rates don't exist any more.

It only goes to show how challeneged some poeole are mathematically to
even think that the cost of the generator would ever be repaid.

Same as those roads that would extract energy from passing cars...



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesnt have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesnt have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

I own two baths and two showers .........and four cludgies .....

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Jim GM4DHJ ...??" wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about
installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee

I own two baths

Both stuffed with coal.

and two showers .........

Pity that coal makes those impossible to use.

and four cludgies .....

It was always obvious you are a very ****ty person.

On 01/12/2018 17:58, Jim GM4DHJ ...?? wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing
a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?



How often is there a flow of water through the pipes your side of the
water meter.

He doesn't have a water meter.

How much would a flush of the toilet generate?

He's a very ****ty person.

Could such a device also reduce your water pressure to an extent that
combi boilers and electric showers fail to work?

He doesn't have a shower, just a bath with coal in it.

tee hee


welsh are you boyo ?

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?


There are isolated properties with no mains electric and water from a
very long pipe going up the hill. Often the pressure is considerable
verging on dangerous and the supply is virtually unlimited. It would
work for them I guess.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:

On 01/12/2018 08:31, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy
bills?


There are isolated properties with no mains electric and water from a
very long pipe going up the hill. Often the pressure is considerable
verging on dangerous and the supply is virtually unlimited. It would
work for them I guess.

Bill
Our water has a head of about 120metres and is regulated down at the
stopcock. But we do have mains electricity, so I don't bother to make
use of the excess 6bar.

--

Roger Hayter

Jim GM4DHJ ... a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :
Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy bills?

Sorry for the OT.
What is the part of English homes that have no water meters ?
For a French this seems unbeliveable.
May be it's true that it rains a lot overthere after all. lol

On 03/12/2018 20:41, bilou wrote:
Sorry for the OT.
What is the part of English homes that have no water meters ?
For a French this seems unbeliveable.
May be it's true that it rains a lot overthere after all. lol

Water meters were very unusual in houses up to about 25 years ago.

The price paid for the water was based very loosely on the value of the
house.

Andy

Vir Campestris a exprimé avec précision :
The price paid for the water was based very loosely on the value of the
house.
Many thanks for this information.
In France at first meters were inside the house.
Then they were buried 1m deep outside to avoid frost and allow reading
when the house was unoccupied.
Now they are getting "clever" with a buried battery powered 864MHz
transmitter. lol
Prices vary a lot .
A very complicated situation IMHO.

On 03/12/2018 21:36, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 03/12/2018 20:41, bilou wrote:
Sorry for the OT.
What is the part of English homes that have no water meters ?
For a French this seems unbeliveable.
May be it's true that it rains a lot overthere after all. lol

Water meters were very unusual in houses up to about 25 years ago.

The price paid for the water was based very loosely on the value of the
house.

Quite often the suppliers insist on a change to metering when the house
changes hands - so slowly they are forcing a change to metered by default.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 3 December 2018 20:41:15 UTC, bilou wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :

Has anybody who has not got a water meter ever thought about installing a
small hydro electric generator to reap back some of the water and lecy bills?

Sorry for the OT.
What is the part of English homes that have no water meters ?
For a French this seems unbeliveable.
May be it's true that it rains a lot overthere after all. lol

most of us have unmetered water. And yes, a lot of rain!


NT