Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

I did wonder whether to buy one of the hobs that has some induction
and some gas, I thought I could use the gas if there was a power cut.
But realistically when was there a power cut? I'd probably be better
buying an all-induction hob.

Now I know that the official advice is get a gas safe person to do it
unless you are competent but if I paid someone to do it, what exactly
would they do? Just solder an end cap on? It would be nice to know
what job I need them to quote for and to make sure they are not doing
anything more/less than required!

Thanks,
Stephen.

Well to start with he/she ought to start with a full system soundness test. That might discover a fault you are blissfully unaware of. On completion a second soundness test should be carried out.

On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

Better

As part of a kitchen refurb we installed an induction hob. It seems to
be much more controllable, particularlt at low heats e.g. cooking apples
without burning them. Two points
1 you will probably need new pand . - test your existing pas with a
magnet. - if it dous not stick you will have to buy new compatible pans
(swmbo used this as an excuse to replce our 40yr old collection

2 To gain the full power advantage you will have to run a 32A supply
separate from the oven BUT there are hobs around which will adjust their
power consumption so that a 13A socket can be used. one ring ant full
power but more using modulatede power. Ours is a Siemens

Malcolm

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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On 18/10/2018 14:43, Cynic wrote:
Well to start with he/she ought to start with a full system soundness test. That might discover a fault you are blissfully unaware of. On completion a second soundness test should be carried out.

Make yourself a U tube manometer by taping some transparent tubing down
one side of a ruler and up the other. How to use it can be found on the web.

I'm a recent convert to an induction hobs - they're excellent/

On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

I did wonder whether to buy one of the hobs that has some induction
and some gas, I thought I could use the gas if there was a power cut.
But realistically when was there a power cut? I'd probably be better
buying an all-induction hob.

Now I know that the official advice is get a gas safe person to do it
unless you are competent but if I paid someone to do it, what exactly
would they do? Just solder an end cap on? It would be nice to know
what job I need them to quote for and to make sure they are not doing
anything more/less than required!

Thanks,
Stephen.

It might have a bayonet connection that you just unplug.

Mike

On 18/10/2018 15:43, Muddymike wrote:
On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

I did wonder whether to buy one of the hobs that has some induction
and some gas, I thought I could use the gas if there was a power cut.
But realistically when was there a power cut? I'd probably be better
buying an all-induction hob.

Now I know that the official advice is get a gas safe person to do it
unless you are competent but if I paid someone to do it, what exactly
would they do? Just solder an end cap on? It would be nice to know
what job I need them to quote for and to make sure they are not doing
anything more/less than required!

Thanks,
Stephen.

It might have a bayonet connection that you just unplug.

Mike

IIRC these are supposed to be used only with traditional cookers, hobs
are supposed to be plumbed in direct (although I am sure there are
plenty around converted to rubber hoses).

If you are competent and confident with soldering 15mm copper it's not a
big deal to blank off your feed somewhere (perhaps ideally at the
take-off from your 22mm going to the boiler). A decent plumber won't
take long and should not charge too much but obviously they have to
cover their travel and overheads even if they only take ten minutes.

If you DIY and then burn the house down some day you might have to
convince the insurance company that you were, in fact, competent. As
another poster has said, the key thing is to do a leak test after you do
the work. This involves fitting a manometer to the gas meter (not
difficult) and switching off your boiler. If your plumber does not do
this be very very worried. There is a risk of course that this test
reveals a fault elsewhere that you were not aware of.

On 18/10/2018 17:20, newshound wrote:
On 18/10/2018 15:43, Muddymike wrote:
snip

It might have a bayonet connection that you just unplug.

Mike

IIRC these are supposed to be used only with traditional cookers, hobs
are supposed to be plumbed in direct (although I am sure there are
plenty around converted to rubber hoses).


IIRC that's been done to death here over the years - including when we
had authorised ( CORGI as was) installers commenting. AIUI the position
is accurately reflected in the Wiki:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_fitting_FAQ

"Generally fixed appliances are supplied with fixed pipework, but unless
prohibited by the manufacturers instructions, may also be connected via
a flexible hose (note there is some confusion in this area since
subsequent issues of BS 6172 went from initially being silent on the
issue, to prohibiting the use of flexible hoses, and then altering the
language subtly between revisions such that they were again permitted)."

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?


In my view, better. I wanted a gas hob but 'Senior Management' wanted
induction. I was a good choice. Control is precise, easy to clean,
virtually instant heat, ......




--
Always smile when walking, you never know where there is a camera ;-)

Remarkable Coincidences:
The Stock Market Crashes of 1929 and 2008 happened on the same
date in October. In Oct 1907, a run on the Knickerbocker Trust
Company led to the Great Depression.

newshound Wrote in message:
On 18/10/2018 15:43, Muddymike wrote:
On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

I did wonder whether to buy one of the hobs that has some induction
and some gas, I thought I could use the gas if there was a power cut.
But realistically when was there a power cut? I'd probably be better
buying an all-induction hob.

Now I know that the official advice is get a gas safe person to do it
unless you are competent but if I paid someone to do it, what exactly
would they do? Just solder an end cap on? It would be nice to know
what job I need them to quote for and to make sure they are not doing
anything more/less than required!

Thanks,
Stephen.

It might have a bayonet connection that you just unplug.

Mike

IIRC these are supposed to be used only with traditional cookers, hobs
are supposed to be plumbed in direct (although I am sure there are
plenty around converted to rubber hoses).

If you are competent and confident with soldering 15mm copper it's not a
big deal to blank off your feed somewhere (perhaps ideally at the
take-off from your 22mm going to the boiler). A decent plumber won't
take long and should not charge too much but obviously they have to
cover their travel and overheads even if they only take ten minutes.

If you DIY and then burn the house down some day you might have to
convince the insurance company that you were, in fact, competent. As
another poster has said, the key thing is to do a leak test after you do
the work. This involves fitting a manometer to the gas meter (not
difficult) and switching off your boiler. If your plumber does not do
this be very very worried. There is a risk of course that this test
reveals a fault elsewhere that you were not aware of.



In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen
--
Chris French

On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen


You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!

Pretty sure that contravenes the gas regs.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen


You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!

Pretty sure that contravenes the gas regs.


Possibly wrong but I thought it was forbidden to use them anywhere
inaccessible. If theres a hatch in the floor or an easily lifted board
then that could count as being €œaccessible€�.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen


You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!


Probably. (This was circa 2000)

Which was rather my point.

You get a 'professional' in and they do a cowboy job, so you might
as well diy it
--
Chris French

On 18/10/2018 22:36, Chris French wrote:

In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen

Took the gas cooker out of my house when gutting it 15 years ago.
Very simple job with compression fitting and an end stop.

Chopped it off on the outside wall a stub length away from where it
T-eed off to go to the boiler.

Only specialist kit I have in my plumbing box for gas work is
single-wrap PTFE tape. Check the final joint with bubble mix, job done.

On 19/10/18 09:28, Chris French wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!


Probably. (This was circa 2000)

Which was rather my point.

You get a 'professional' in and they do a cowboy job, so you might
as well diy it


Was your "professional" actually GasSafe (or CORGI depending)?

Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 19/10/18 09:28, Chris French wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!


Probably. (This was circa 2000)

Which was rather my point.

You get a 'professional' in and they do a cowboy job, so you might
as well diy it


Was your "professional" actually GasSafe (or CORGI depending)?


You think that guarantees a safe job?? ;-)

We has our meter moved a few years ago by Scottish gas (inside to
outside). The new pipe was teed into existing pipework under the
floor though a pre-existing hatch. The joint was
soldered.

Shortly afterwards I could smell gas and when they came back, the
new gas fitter pointed out the pre-existing compression joints
nearby and made lots of tutting noises.

Problem was a duff solder joint though...

Given that all the work was organised by Scottish gas I'm gonna
assume that the fitters were all registered.

Tim
--

On 19/10/18 15:57, Tim+ wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 19/10/18 09:28, Chris French wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!


Probably. (This was circa 2000)

Which was rather my point.

You get a 'professional' in and they do a cowboy job, so you might
as well diy it


Was your "professional" actually GasSafe (or CORGI depending)?


You think that guarantees a safe job?? ;-)

A bit more than not

But I have caught CORGI types out before for being useless.

However, compression joints under the floor is a) lazy; b) a very basic
error.


We has our meter moved a few years ago by Scottish gas (inside to
outside). The new pipe was teed into existing pipework under the
floor though a pre-existing hatch. The joint was
soldered.

Shortly afterwards I could smell gas and when they came back, the
new gas fitter pointed out the pre-existing compression joints
nearby and made lots of tutting noises.

Problem was a duff solder joint though...

Given that all the work was organised by Scottish gas I'm gonna
assume that the fitters were all registered.

They didn't do a drop test?

On 18/10/2018 18:11, Brian Reay wrote:
On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have a gas hob that I think I would like to replace with an
induction hob. Mainly because I think that an induction hob will be
easier to clean than a gas one!

I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?


In my view, better. I wanted a gas hob but 'Senior Management' wanted
induction. I was a good choice.Â* Control is precise, easy to clean,
virtually instant heat, ......


I've been very impressed. But I have a collection of favourite but
unsuitable pans.

Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 19/10/18 09:28, Chris French wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!


Probably. (This was circa 2000)

Which was rather my point.

You get a 'professional' in and they do a cowboy job, so you might
as well diy it


Was your "professional" actually GasSafe (or CORGI depending)?


Well, it wassome years ago, but AFAICR, yes.

Not that I'm surprised, my expectations of lots of tradespeople
are quite low.
--
Chris French

On 19/10/2018 07:51, Tim+ wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/10/18 22:36, Chris French wrote:

In our old house, we removed a gas fire during room renovations
and I asked a plumber to cap the pipe off. He called in on his
way home from a job, cut the pipe under the floor, stuck a
compression stop end and charged me £30. Hmmph.

Next time I had something similar I did it myself.

Just do it yourself Stephen


You're not mean to use compression joints on gas under the floor!

Pretty sure that contravenes the gas regs.


Possibly wrong but I thought it was forbidden to use them anywhere
inaccessible. If theres a hatch in the floor or an easily lifted board
then that could count as being €œaccessible€�.

There is a bit of wiggle room in BS6891[1]; 7.3 says "...shall only be
used where they will be readily accessible and allow the nut to be
tightened to make a gas tight joint"

The commentary on that says "Pipes under floor or in shafts, channels,
ducts or voids without removable covers are not considered to be readily
accessible"

So if one counts a floor board as a removable cover, then you are in the
clear ;-)


[1] Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in
domestic premises (2nd family gas) €” Specification




--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

No.

It's better.

A LOT better.

More controllable, higher max power output, and less waste heat and
water (from combustion) into the kitchen.

Only downside is you can't use a wok - though there are even solutions
for that. I just use a sauté pan.

Andy

On 22/10/18 21:29, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/10/2018 14:00, Stephen wrote:
I'm old enough to remember the cook-cook-cook-cookability adverts for
gas! Is induction nearly as good?

No.

It's better.

A LOT better.

More controllable, higher max power output, and less waste heat and
water (from combustion) into the kitchen.

Out of interest, are gas hobs really less than 25% efficient as a heat
source? Assuming 100% efficiency for induction, gas costs around 5p per
kWh and electricity 20p per kWh. So they would have to be less than 25%
efficient to compare with induction for the same cost of a kWh.

Only downside is you can't use a wok - though there are even solutions
for that. I just use a sauté pan.

Also, you can't have a hot meal during a prolonged power cut. But I
guess you could get the barbecue out of storage... :-)

--

Jeff

On 23/10/2018 07:27, Jeff Layman wrote:
Out of interest, are gas hobs really less than 25% efficient as a heat
source? Assuming 100% efficiency for induction, gas costs around 5p per
kWh and electricity 20p per kWh. So they would have to be less than 25%
efficient to compare with induction for the same cost of a kWh.

Don't know how much less efficient - but they are less efficient to some
amount.

Say they're 50%. That means twice as much heat into the kitchen. Which
can be a problem, as can the extra water.

The cost of running a hob is trivial compared with heating.

Andy

On 23/10/18 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/10/2018 07:27, Jeff Layman wrote:
Out of interest, are gas hobs really less than 25% efficient as a heat
source? Assuming 100% efficiency for induction, gas costs around 5p per
kWh and electricity 20p per kWh. So they would have to be less than 25%
efficient to compare with induction for the same cost of a kWh.

Don't know how much less efficient - but they are less efficient to some
amount.

Taking everything into account (power generation, etc), it would appear
that gas is marginally the most efficient. It is certainly cheaper.
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2452,00.html

Say they're 50%. That means twice as much heat into the kitchen. Which
can be a problem, as can the extra water.

A problem in summer, but less so in winter. Extra water would be, unless
there is a hood which vents to the outside

The cost of running a hob is trivial compared with heating.

True, but the initial cost of changing from a gas hob to an induction
hob could be high, particularly if new pots and pans are needed.
Depending on how much hob cooking is done, it could take years for the
cost to be recouped, if ever.

--

Jeff