There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:11:14 +0100, TimW wrote:

but lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I
be able to fit the new valve with water flowing?

Yes, but you'll get wet, probably very wet.

What sort of fitting is needed for black plastic pipe?

Depends on the OD of the pipe. Ordinary compression will work (on the
right sized pipe) but you really need to put a metal sleeve inside
the pipe as well. There are also various other connectors for plastic
to copper connections.

I had an idea that I could cut the pipe and maybe fit a stop cock with
the stop cock open and the water flowing through, then turn it off, then
deal with the trough valve. would that work?

Yes, but you'll get wet, probably very wet. With the valve open you
have water coming out of it, proably quite a lot of water. I'd have
the valve closed, then when you shove it on the end of the pipe you
have a much lower flow rate,

I'd use a "squeeze off" tool to compress the pipe to stop or very
much reduce the flow before cutting the pipe.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/10/2018 22:11, TimW wrote:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing?
What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe?

Something like:

https://www.bes.co.uk/25-mm-floplast...c-below-ground

(depending on size obviously)

I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

Yup, with no back pressure from the valve, you should have no difficulty
getting in on and fixed - even if you do get a bit wet at times!




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

TimW Wrote in message:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

Yes I'd reckon so, though prepare to get wet!

Maybe use a pipe freezer?

Or wait & see if the pipe freezes in winter?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

TimW Wrote in message:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW


Which part have the cattle broke off & where?
E.g. Is there any "stub" of the float arm to which you could
lash/cable tie something else to, to work as a replacement
float?

Or is it all mangled?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

TimW Wrote in message:
What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

As long as you get a full bore valve it shouldn't be a problem.
I've done it indoors without making an enormous mess. It's
helpful to fix a bit of hosepipe or similar to the downstream
side of your new valve temporarily to direct the flow of water
well away from you whilst you're tightening the fittings


Tim


--

"Jim K" wrote in message
news
TimW Wrote in message:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW


Which part have the cattle broke off & where?
E.g. Is there any "stub" of the float arm to which you could
lash/cable tie something else to, to work as a replacement
float?

Or use a bit of relatively soft metal tube to make the arm
good again with the two ends inside it and crimped up.

Or is it all mangled?

Don't disturb the pipe - if the valve is the same then just change the
valve body.

TimW wrote:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

Yes.

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long


TW

On 10/10/2018 22:11, TimW wrote:

existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out.

You should turn off your own water and see if that stops it, then turn
off the neighbour's. You need to know where the supply comes from.

Bill

One can usually tell by the size of hole if its high or low pressure, the
ones with the small hole are high pressure. I think I'd be very worried
about just where the water is actually coming from. After all it could be
anything and if nobody knows where it goes it might not be that clean or
may get dug up by somebody doing work. Surely there has to be records of
these things?
I suppose if everyone around turned off their water and then turned them on
one at a time at least you would know whos it was.

I'd have thought though that a bodged repair to the valve would at least
give you breathing space till you can work out what is actually going on.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andew Jones" wrote in message
...


"Jim K" wrote in message
news
TimW Wrote in message:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW


Which part have the cattle broke off & where?
E.g. Is there any "stub" of the float arm to which you could
lash/cable tie something else to, to work as a replacement
float?

Or use a bit of relatively soft metal tube to make the arm
good again with the two ends inside it and crimped up.

Or is it all mangled?

On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 22:11:17 UTC+1, TimW wrote:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW

If you also get a gate valve, these can be fitted with the water running full bore with the valve fully open.
A very wet business best done in warm weather.

On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 22:11:17 UTC+1, TimW wrote:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything.

It may come from the water main with a separate connection. It may not even be an official connection.

https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/_asse...g_2017_WEB.pdf

for water regulations guidance

Owain

DerbyBorn Wrote in message:



Don't disturb the pipe - if the valve is the same then just change the
valve body.


I thought the problem was that there was no isolation valve.

Tim
--

On 10/10/2018 22:11, TimW wrote:

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

That's what a farmer would do. As others have said, you will get wet.
Pipe freezers are for wimps, but that should work too and may be easier
especially if you are not familiar with the fittings. You don't want to
lose one of the bits once the water is flowing!

On 11/10/18 07:14, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:11:14 +0100, TimW wrote:

There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long

TW

Maybe I've misunderstood something, but can't you just get a new arm,
like this https://tinyurl.com/yck2j8zc

Yes! The thing being that the flow was so slow that I really wanted to
replace the valve, so it is all working properly.
TW

On 11/10/18 09:59, newshound wrote:
On 10/10/2018 22:11, TimW wrote:

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains
pressure or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if
the existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to
mole valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no
problem, but lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes
out. Will I be able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort
of fitting is needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I
could cut the pipe and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open
and the water flowing through, then turn it off, then deal with the
trough valve. would that work?

That's what a farmer would do. As others have said, you will get wet.
Pipe freezers are for wimps, but that should work too and may be easier
especially if you are not familiar with the fittings. You don't want to
lose one of the bits once the water is flowing!

My experience of plumbing is that you _never_ have the right bits. At
least it's in a field, I can leave it gushing out and take an hour to go
and find the right bits without doing a lot of damage.
TW

In article , TimW
scribeth thus
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...pressure-part-
1-float-valve-3-long

TW

Use a pipe freezing kit that stops the flow while you work on the
pipe!..
--
Tony Sayer

On 10/10/2018 22:11, TimW wrote:
There's a small bit of land behind the house which has in the past had
horse/sheep in it and hence a galvanised drinking trough with a water
supply. The supply comes through black plastic pipe underground and I
don't know where from but I am pretty sure it isn't from my house. Must
be my neighbour but they don't know of any stop cock or anything. There
was a valve with a metal ball on an arm like an old toilet but it was
only filling very slowly. Now the arm has been broken off by some cattle
that got in and the thing is constantly, if slowly overflowing.

I want to keep the trough available for livestock. I have no way of
turning off the water. I don't know if the water is full mains pressure
or if the slow flow is all we will ever get. I don't know if the
existing valve is blocked or not or if it's fixable. I can go to mole
valley or somewhere and buy a new ball valve or similar no problem, but
lets say I cut the pipe with a hand saw and water gushes out. Will I be
able to fit the new valve with water flowing? What sort of fitting is
needed for black plastic pipe? I had an idea that I could cut the pipe
and maybe fit a stop cock with the stop cock open and the water flowing
through, then turn it off, then deal with the trough valve. would that
work?

the old valve looks something like this:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...t-valve-3-long


TW

If it were me I would fit a stopcock.
The pipe is probably black alkathene, measure its size and buy an
appropriate MDPE underground stopcock and (if needed) adapters for the
alkathene.
Cut the pipe with a plastic pipe cutter (they're cheap and give a very
quick and clean cut that does not leave burrs) rather than a hacksaw.
Make sure the stopcock is "open" when you fit it.
It should take 20-30 seconds to fit the stopcock on the supply pipe.

Tim+ wrote in :

DerbyBorn Wrote in message:



Don't disturb the pipe - if the valve is the same then just change the
valve body.


I thought the problem was that there was no isolation valve.

Tim

If the pressure is low then I would change it without isolating it.

Do not disturb the connection to the pipe - remove the valve from the stem.
Expect the nozzle to flush out. But you will have a new one.