How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

On 27/09/2018 15:02, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

I think that is what I would do, maybe just a litre at a time (before
filling up). But don't you know anyone with a chainsaw, etc?

On 27/09/2018 15:02, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

Pour it down the bog and chuck a match in

Bill

On 27/09/2018 15:19, newshound wrote:
On 27/09/2018 15:02, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a
petrol car Without detrimental effect?

I think that is what I would do, maybe just a litre at a time (before
filling up). But don't you know anyone with a chainsaw, etc?

I would take it with me when next filling the tank. Juts add some before
filling up.

Mike

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

Yes - just not too much at a time.

--
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

no, added oil makes 4 strokes smoke & thus deposit junk. Give it away on freegle/gumtree.


NT

On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

On 27/09/2018 17:32, Broadback wrote:
On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, BroadbackÂ* wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

If you know someone with an old, pre-Cat convertor, car, 4l in a tank
full shouldn't be an issue. In a more modern car, maybe 1l / tank.

In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol
as it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc. Never
tried it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

--
Always smile when walking, you never know where there is a camera ;-)

Remarkable Coincidences:
The Stock Market Crashes of 1929 and 2008 happened on the same
date in October. In Oct 1907, a run on the Knickerbocker Trust
Company led to the Great Depression.

"Broadback" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with age,
so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

If it will gum up a 2 stroke, then what will it do in a 4 stroke, even if
diluted by lots of excess petrol? I'm not sure I'd risk it in a modern
engine where it could gum up an injector nozzle.

How about pouring it into a wide shallow container (lots of surface area)
out in the open and *away from any chance of flames/sparks* and let the
petrol evaporate. Then dispose of the remaining oil at the tip (or
"recycling centre" to use its Sunday school name).

I wonder how long it will be before 2-stroke devices are banned on the
grounds of a) evil-smelling oily exhaust, and b) penetrating whine from
high-revving engine which is usually run intermittently and at varying speed
(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:32:39 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

snip

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

OOI, have you tried it in your 2/ tool and if not, how do you know it
will gum it up?

'Gumming up' is normally what I would refer to if you leave fuel in
something, the lighter fractions evaporate leaving the heavier stuff /
2/ oil behind and that 'gums' (soft blocks) jets etc?

Left long enough and all the liquids can evaporate leaving things like
cellulose (?) behind that blocks (not 'gums') jets with harder debris.

I left my old Royal Enfield Bullet for 3 years before trying to start
it again an after a quick jiggle of the float jet and a few kicks it
started and ran ok. The petrol smelled more like paraffin! ;-(

Fresh fuel is always preferred of course ...

Cheers, T i m

Broadback wrote:
On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.


How can you be sure? I mix up 5L of 2-stroke at a time for my strimmer that
usually lasts me a couple of years. Always seems to start...

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

no, added oil makes 4 strokes smoke & thus deposit junk.

Eh? Most four strokes burn a bit of their oil anyway....

Give it away on freegle/gumtree.


NT

Oh aye yeah.

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Thursday, 27 September 2018 16:32:43 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
wait until November ...
The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

I wasn't suggesting using it in a tool.

Owain

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol as
it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc. Never tried
it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

My mum had a friend who used to add a few gallons of diesel to a tank of
petrol in her split-screen (older model) Morris Minor every so often to
"de-coke" it. I'm not sure how well diesel fuel ignites by spark, or how
well it flows through a fuel pump and the nozzle of a carburettor.
Apparently one time she added the diesel at home and then realised that the
tank was nearly empty so the car had to run on almost neat diesel as she was
driving to the garage, and it produced lots of black smoke :-)

Running a car on diesel and petrol "because it was cheap" must go back to
the days when diesel was about half the price of petrol - those were the
days... When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close to
the price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in the mid
80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half the price),
though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much attention. By the time
I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s, diesel was already level with
or even slightly more expensive.

In article , NY
wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol
as it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc.
Never tried it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

My mum had a friend who used to add a few gallons of diesel to a tank of
petrol in her split-screen (older model) Morris Minor every so often to
"de-coke" it. I'm not sure how well diesel fuel ignites by spark, or how
well it flows through a fuel pump and the nozzle of a carburettor.
Apparently one time she added the diesel at home and then realised that
the tank was nearly empty so the car had to run on almost neat diesel as
she was driving to the garage, and it produced lots of black smoke :-)

Running a car on diesel and petrol "because it was cheap" must go back to
the days when diesel was about half the price of petrol - those were the
days... When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close
to the price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in
the mid 80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half
the price), though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much
attention. By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s,
diesel was already level with or even slightly more expensive.

I find that diesel is 2p or 3p more expensive than petrol.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Hoping that's tongue in cheek as it's terrible advice.

Tim
--

"charles" wrote in message
...
When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close
to the price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in
the mid 80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half
the price), though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much
attention. By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s,
diesel was already level with or even slightly more expensive.

I find that diesel is 2p or 3p more expensive than petrol.


Yes, it was slightly less the petrol (probably 2-3 p/litre less) for a
while, then it gradually rose to be equal, then a bit more and then at one
stage was 10 p/litre more, after which the difference has reduced to around
2-3 p more.

The small garages that charge a lot for fuel because there is no supermarket
or big-name garage nearby are the ones where there is greatest difference
between petrol and diesel.

The highest I've paid for diesel was 151 p/litre in May 2011 when all the
other garages were charging about 140. That was somewhere in north-west
mainland Scotland or maybe on Skye - wherever it was, it was the only garage
for miles around so I had to fill up there. I couldn't even put in a small
amount because I didn't know when I'd next find a garage. Normally if I run
low and the only garage is extortionate I put in the bare minimum to get me
to a supermarket garage.

I once made a real pillock of myself: I kept going past garages thinking
"I'll hold out for a cheaper garage". And I found one: diesel was several p
cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally put in
"gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I ended up
paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more expensive garages
(assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To add insult to injury,
the car didn't even run more quietly or more smoothly, or have better
acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt really conned, because I could
perceive no benefit for paying about 10 p/litre more :-(

"Broadback" wrote in message
news
How is the best way of disposing of this?

Pour it on the ground well away from any grass you care about.

could it be added to a petrol car Without detrimental effect?

Should be fine.

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 17:32, Broadback wrote:
On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

If you know someone with an old, pre-Cat convertor, car, 4l in a tank full
shouldn't be an issue. In a more modern car, maybe 1l / tank.

With a cat converter, it shouldnt matter whether it is spread
over multiple tanks or not, it still ends up in the cat converter.

In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol as
it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc. Never tried
it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Broadback" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 16:02, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:02:25 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

wait until November ...

Owain

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

If it will gum up a 2 stroke, then what will it do in a 4 stroke, even if
diluted by lots of excess petrol? I'm not sure I'd risk it in a modern
engine where it could gum up an injector nozzle.

How about pouring it into a wide shallow container (lots of surface area)
out in the open and *away from any chance of flames/sparks* and let the
petrol evaporate. Then dispose of the remaining oil at the tip (or
"recycling centre" to use its Sunday school name).

I wonder how long it will be before 2-stroke devices are banned on the
grounds of a) evil-smelling oily exhaust,

We're already doing that
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-2...n-laws/9885250

and b) penetrating whine from high-revving engine which is usually run
intermittently and at varying speed

Not for that reason here.

(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

Not sure thats true of a chainsaw which usually does
see significant speed variation as the saw is used.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol
as it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc. Never
tried it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

My mum had a friend who used to add a few gallons of diesel to a tank of
petrol in her split-screen (older model) Morris Minor every so often to
"de-coke" it. I'm not sure how well diesel fuel ignites by spark, or how
well it flows through a fuel pump and the nozzle of a carburettor.
Apparently one time she added the diesel at home and then realised that
the tank was nearly empty so the car had to run on almost neat diesel as
she was driving to the garage, and it produced lots of black smoke :-)

Running a car on diesel and petrol "because it was cheap" must go back to
the days when diesel was about half the price of petrol - those were the
days... When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close
to the price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in the
mid 80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half the
price),

It was a lot later than that here.

though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much attention.

I noticed it because of the talk about it with campervans/RVs.

By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s, diesel was
already level with or even slightly more expensive.

That happened rather later here.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

Not sure thats true of a chainsaw which usually does
see significant speed variation as the saw is used.

Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive. And also four-stroke engines
tend (*) to have better speed regulation when going from no-load to load.

(*) I'm not sure whether that's an innate advantage of a four-stroke, or
whether it is that when a four-stroke engine is used rather than a
two-stroke, it tends to be a larger capacity and therefore more powerful so
it will keep at its governed speed better as load is applied. Presumably a
diesel engine would have even better speed regulation because of the greater
low-speed torque - but would be heavier because of the thicker cylinder
walls to withstand the higher compression.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close to the
price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in the mid
80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half the
price),

It was a lot later than that here.

though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much attention.

I noticed it because of the talk about it with campervans/RVs.

By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s, diesel was
already level with or even slightly more expensive.

That happened rather later here.

And it still hasn't happened in some European countries either. When I was
on a cruise of various North Sea countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium
*) I noticed that most of them were displaying a lower price for diesel than
for petrol. OK, both prices in Norway were stupidly expensive if you
translated them back using the approximation 1 GBP = 10 NOK, but at least
diesel was less eye-watering than petrol.


(*) And the Netherlands if only the ship had been able to dock at Amsterdam
instead of having to cry off three Christmas cruises in a row...

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

Not sure thats true of a chainsaw which usually does
see significant speed variation as the saw is used.

Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive.

I'm not convinced with a chainsaw.

And also four-stroke engines tend (*) to have better speed regulation when
going from no-load to load.

Sure, but no one uses a chainsaw like that.

(*) I'm not sure whether that's an innate advantage of a four-stroke, or
whether it is that when a four-stroke engine is used rather than a
two-stroke, it tends to be a larger capacity and therefore more powerful
so it will keep at its governed speed better as load is applied.
Presumably a diesel engine would have even better speed regulation because
of the greater low-speed torque - but would be heavier because of the
thicker cylinder walls to withstand the higher compression.

Yeah, can't see them being used for stuff like
chainsaws and what you lot call strimmers.

And its far from clear if very small diesel engines
would meet the emissions standards that are the
reason for the ban on small portable 2 strokes anyway.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close to the
price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in the mid
80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half the
price),

It was a lot later than that here.

though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much attention.

I noticed it because of the talk about it with campervans/RVs.

By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s, diesel was
already level with or even slightly more expensive.

That happened rather later here.

And it still hasn't happened in some European countries either. When I was
on a cruise of various North Sea countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark,
Belgium *) I noticed that most of them were displaying a lower price for
diesel than for petrol. OK, both prices in Norway were stupidly expensive
if you translated them back using the approximation 1 GBP = 10 NOK, but at
least diesel was less eye-watering than petrol.

Wonder why it varys like that. At one stage it was because some
jurisdictions required the diesel to be sulphur free, maybe thats
why, the time that was required varied by country.

The bigger trucks are still predominantly diesel still, but
thats because those big diesel engines are much more
fuel efficient and so the fuel price isnt so important.

(*) And the Netherlands if only the ship had been able to dock at
Amsterdam instead of having to cry off three Christmas cruises in a row...

And strange that Norway is so expensive
given that they are a major oil producer
too. Maybe its most tax that does that.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , NY
wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol
as it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc.
Never tried it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

My mum had a friend who used to add a few gallons of diesel to a tank of
petrol in her split-screen (older model) Morris Minor every so often to
"de-coke" it. I'm not sure how well diesel fuel ignites by spark, or how
well it flows through a fuel pump and the nozzle of a carburettor.
Apparently one time she added the diesel at home and then realised that
the tank was nearly empty so the car had to run on almost neat diesel as
she was driving to the garage, and it produced lots of black smoke :-)

Running a car on diesel and petrol "because it was cheap" must go back to
the days when diesel was about half the price of petrol - those were the
days... When did diesel start to rise rapidly in price to bring it close
to the price of petrol? I *think* by the time I bought my first car in
the mid 80s diesel was slightly cheaper than petrol (as opposed to half
the price), though since my car was petrol I didn't pay too much
attention. By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s,
diesel was already level with or even slightly more expensive.

I find that diesel is 2p or 3p more expensive than petrol.

It is now, but didn’t used to be.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 05:44:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more troll ****

What's the first thing you do when you get up between 2 and 3 o'clock in the
morning in Australia, senile Rot? Switch on the computer and troll on
Usenet. Actually it's rather OBVIOUS! LMAO

--
Blabbermouth Rot Speed's special talent on display:
"Don¢t believe that either given that the obvious way to
do that is to leave a decent gap to the car in front of you
when moving which allows those who want to waste
their time overtaking whenever they can to use that gap."
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 05:23:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


With a cat converter, it shouldn¢t matter whether it is spread
over multiple tanks or not, it still ends up in the cat converter.

What matters is when will you finally end up in your grave, you pesky
85-year-old senile cretin!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 05:28:33 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

and b) penetrating whine from high-revving engine which is usually run
intermittently and at varying speed

Not

LOL He said it again!

(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

Not

LOL And again!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 05:09:19 +1000, 543dsa, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

How is the best way of disposing of this?

Pour it on the ground well away from any grass you care about.

could it be added to a petrol car Without detrimental effect?

Should be fine.

Afraid that the OP killfiled you already, senile troll? Or why did you
change your nym again, "Rot Speed", "Andew Jones" and "543dsa"! BG

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:43:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



I find that diesel is 2p or 3p more expensive than petrol.

It is now, but didn¢t used to be.

He didn't say anything about what it used to be, senile Rot! What a sick
wisenheimer you are! tsk

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:29:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

And strange that Norway is so expensive

What could be stranger than a constantly nym-shifting, 85-year-old, senile
Ozzietard like you getting up every day between 2 and 4 o'clock in the
morning, just to be able troll on Usenet?

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:23:39 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


And its far from clear if very small diesel engines
would meet the emissions standards that are the
reason for the ban on small portable 2 strokes anyway.

I'm sure quite a few posters here wish you had at least 2 strokes and would
finally shut up, you cantankerous senile wiseacre!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
In older cars, reps used to run petrol cars on a mix of diesel + petrol
as it was cheap- they didn't worry about any damage (if any) etc. Never
tried it (not that I was a rep) but I understand, they ran fine.

Never heard that one. Adding some petrol to a diesel used to be common in
cold weather.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

How old is it. I'd have thought many jobbing gardeners and others with hand
held two stroke devices would be glad of it before the EU bans it as
polluting.
If its too old and the octane level is low, then I seem to recall some of
the companies who dispose of old paint will handle it. as for what happens
in a car, I'd suggest it is not a good idea in a modern car, unless you want
a lot of clogging up and knackered catalytic converter.
I suppose if you put it in in egg cup fulls a month or something it might
be OK, its all down to the dilution and its the oil which is the issue here.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Broadback" wrote in message
news
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:22:59 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

How old is it.
....
... knackered catalytic converter.

Is it old enough to be leaded...

I suppose if you put it in in egg cup fulls a month or something it
might be OK, its all down to the dilution ...

It'll already be diluted, 50:1 or maybe (as my strimmer uses) 20:1. A
litre of 20:1 in a 50 litre fill up is going to be 1020:1. 50:1 ends
up at 2550:1.

Lead either in the orginal petrol or in the oil is likely to be more
of an issue.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 20:46:25 +0100, NY wrote:

(a constant drone from a 4-stroke is less annoying than a varying
and
high-pitched buzz from a 2-stroke).

Not sure that s true of a chainsaw which usually does see
significant
speed variation as the saw is used.

Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive.

Yep, we don't hear the big Harely's going along Hartside 4 miles away
and when they pass us it's not unpleasant. The oppoiste for the the
high reving "sports bikes" that scream through the gears up to 10,000
rpm, 'orriblel noise and audible from 4 miles away.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Wonder why it varys like that. At one stage it was because some
jurisdictions required the diesel to be sulphur free, maybe thats
why, the time that was required varied by country.

Some of it may be due to different tax rules. When diesel was much cheaper
than petrol in the UK, it was largely because it was taxed less severely.
Fuel is taxed twice: firstly there is a fuel tax which I *think* is a fixed
rate per litre, not related to raw material cost. Then the sales price
(which is made up of raw material + fuel tax) is subject to VAT which is
proportional to sales price. Before VAT there was "purchase tax" which was
the same principle.

When diesel cars became more common, and it was private cars as well as just
taxis which were diesel, governments started to increase the amount of fuel
tax "because they could". I believe both petrol and diesel have identical
fuel tax now, so the sales price is proportional just to raw material cost,
and diesel costs slightly more to refine, both due to the higher
temperatures needed to evaporate the heavier fractions of crude oil and due
to the lower production amounts leading to poorer economy of scale - or so
we are told...

I think a lot of European countries still tax diesel less heavily, though
that will probably change now that diesel exhaust has got such a bad press.

It is a sore point in the UK, because in the 1990s the government promoted
diesel cars as the more efficient form of fuel than petrol because of the
better miles per gallon and therefore the lower CO2 emissions. That is still
true, but now we have to take into account NOx and PM10, and the effects of
those weren't as well known about back in the 90s. Try "selling" the idea
that when you replace you car you now have to buy one which uses more fuel
(and produces more CO2) and has much poorer low-speed torque: having
experienced diesel cars, some (like me) are reluctant to go back.

Of course the big thing is electric cars. They may be wonderful to drive,
with torque from zero speed and so no need for variable gear ratios. However
the range and recharging time are the big killer for anyone who wants a car
for more than a short journey to/from work and who may want to drive several
hundred miles in a day with only meal, toilet and driver-changeover stops.
Petrol-electric hybrids will be fine - until the government outlaws those
several decades after outlawing diesel- or petrol-mechanical cars which is
scheduled for about 2040. Hybrid cars are only any use if they have big
enough batteries that the car can be driven entirely on battery within a
city, only using the fossil-fuel engine when they are in the more-sparsely
populated countryside outside the city, to keep pollution out of city
centres. But hybrids can only run for a short distance on battery, and rely
entirely on having an engine that is more efficient at constant speed that
at variable speed as with a mechanical transmission.

How many people want to buy two cars: one electric for shorter journeys with
long recharging stops while you are are work or shopping, and the other a
hybrid for longer journeys with fast refuelling time. Not unreasonably,
people want one car that does both :-) When an electric car can restore a
range of 700 miles with a recharge of a few minutes (as happens with a
petrol/diesel car) I'll buy one. But that it not practical because it
requires energy to be taken on board at a rate of several megawatts. (60
litres = 60 * 35 MJ, refuelled in 5 minutes - being pessimistic about
refuelling time).

Come back Beeching and see how we might need all those railway lines you
closed down in 1963, if private transport becomes expensive or impossible
once fossil fuel is banned completely.


The bigger trucks are still predominantly diesel still, but
thats because those big diesel engines are much more
fuel efficient and so the fuel price isnt so important.

I'm not sure that any trucks in the UK are petrol. Certainly not 44-tonne
heavy goods vehicles, and probably most vans (Ford Transit size) are diesel.

And strange that Norway is so expensive
given that they are a major oil producer
too. Maybe its most tax that does that.

Everything in Norway is expensive because their standard of living is high
but then salaries are higher. Effectively the conversion rate between GBP
and NOK is "wrong", in that a typical salary in one country is higher than
in the other when both are converted to the same currency, but shop prices
are higher in the same proportion. In an ideal world, a given "reference
job" or a given "reference item" in a shop should be the same in all
countries when you convert to same currency. Part of the problem with the EU
is that some eastern European countries have a lower costs of living than
those in western Europe, so there is an incentive for people from the east
to move to the west to earn more in numerical terms and then send their
earnings back home where they will buy more goods. A ruling that immigrants
can only spend their earnings in the country of employment would *not* be
popular :-)

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive.

Yep, we don't hear the big Harely's going along Hartside 4 miles away
and when they pass us it's not unpleasant. The oppoiste for the the
high reving "sports bikes" that scream through the gears up to 10,000
rpm, 'orriblel noise and audible from 4 miles away.

The worst are off-road scrambler bikes. I went for a nice walk in the
countryside along the Ridgeway Path, and all I could hear for most of the
walk was the distant sound of puny 2-stroke bikes revving up and down (not
even a constant speed). Conversely a large touring bike passed right next to
me as the path crosses a road, and its noise was only audible for a minute
as it approached and departed, and even at worst it was much less intrusive.