In article ,
NY wrote:
It is a sore point in the UK, because in the 1990s the government
promoted diesel cars as the more efficient form of fuel than petrol
because of the better miles per gallon and therefore the lower CO2
emissions. That is still true, but now we have to take into account NOx
and PM10, and the effects of those weren't as well known about back in
the 90s.

From the start of emissions testing in the UK - well before the 1990s -
NOx was well known as a pollutant. Saying diesel was somehow cleaner was
always known to be rubbish - and why VW etc had to 'bend' the rules in an
attempt to fool the authorities. Unless the only concern is CO2 output.

--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/09/2018 19:36, NY wrote:

several p cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally
put in "gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I
ended up paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more
expensive garages (assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To
add insult to injury, the car didn't even run more quietly or more
smoothly, or have better acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt
really conned, because I could perceive no benefit for paying about 10
p/litre more :-(

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

Bill

On 27/09/2018 16:32, Broadback wrote:

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

I believe a mild anaesthetic gel might be of some help.

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" Wrote
in message:
On 27/09/2018 16:32, Broadback wrote:

The reason I need to dispose of it is because it as deteriorated with
age, so will gum up my 2 stroke tool.

I believe a mild anaesthetic gel might be of some help.


Make it up to four stroke maybe?
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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In article
,
says...


When I was
on a cruise of various North Sea countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium
*) I noticed that most of them were displaying a lower price for diesel than
for petrol. OK, both prices in Norway were stupidly expensive if you
translated them back using the approximation 1 GBP = 10 NOK, but at least
diesel was less eye-watering than petrol.


When I first started driving in France and Belgium and used
petrol, I used to leave Dover with the tank full and come back
on fumes!

When I switched to diesel, I started going out virtually empty
and coming back full!

I always noticed that the Netherlands was more expensive than
Belgium but Belgium and France were roughly the same.

When we visited the far east of Belgium a few years ago it was
worth a detour via the N4 road that runs just inside the
border except for a short distance where the border with
Luxembourg runs along the side of the road for a short
distance.

Diesel imn Luxembourg at the time was very cheap so, needless
to say, this small section of road was bordered by filling
stations, one after the other.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@
49.8326601,5.7412502,3a,75y,110.04h,81.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!
1sKoqKDex8fblFs8t0hrw7yQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

or

https://tinyurl.com/ybgkmu53

--

Terry

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"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 19:36, NY wrote:

several p cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally put
in "gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I ended
up paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more expensive
garages (assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To add insult to
injury, the car didn't even run more quietly or more smoothly, or have
better acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt really conned, because
I could perceive no benefit for paying about 10 p/litre more :-(

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

Is that the same "very knowledgeable garage" that also sells premium
diesel - do they make more money that way?

They say that premium fuel contains additives that clean the injectors of a
petrol or diesel engine - which in the case of a diesel results in finer
droplets, less dribbling and therefore longer, less explosive combustion and
so more power because of more complete combustion. Sort of Viagra for
diesels!

Shame I didn't notice any difference - and I was looking out for one to make
up for being fleeced of several pounds by the garage that hadn't labelled
the pumps very well.

"NY" Wrote in message:
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 19:36, NY wrote:

several p cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally put
in "gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I ended
up paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more expensive
garages (assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To add insult to
injury, the car didn't even run more quietly or more smoothly, or have
better acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt really conned, because
I could perceive no benefit for paying about 10 p/litre more :-(

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

Is that the same "very knowledgeable garage" that also sells premium
diesel - do they make more money that way?

They say that premium fuel contains additives that clean the injectors of a
petrol or diesel engine - which in the case of a diesel results in finer
droplets, less dribbling and therefore longer, less explosive combustion and
so more power because of more complete combustion. Sort of Viagra for
diesels!

Shame I didn't notice any difference - and I was looking out for one to make
up for being fleeced of several pounds by the garage that hadn't labelled
the pumps very well.



No agenda then! :-D
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
NY wrote:
They say that premium fuel contains additives that clean the injectors of a
petrol or diesel engine - which in the case of a diesel results in finer
droplets, less dribbling and therefore longer, less explosive combustion and
so more power because of more complete combustion. Sort of Viagra for
diesels!

I've had two petrol cars that say to use 'Super' (98 octane) where
available. On neither have I noticed any difference in performance or MPG.
Now if the ignition timing is advancing to make use of the higher octane
rating, the MPG should be better too. But despite checking them over a
very long journey several times, no difference outside experimental error.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 27/09/2018 19:36, NY wrote:

several p cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally put
in "gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I ended
up paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more expensive
garages (assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To add insult to
injury, the car didn't even run more quietly or more smoothly, or have
better acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt really conned, because
I could perceive no benefit for paying about 10 p/litre more :-(

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

But it is very far from clear whether that has any scientific basis.

On 27/09/2018 15:02, Broadback wrote:
How is the best way of disposing of this? could it be added to a petrol
car Without detrimental effect?

Do you anyone with a diesel vehicle who you have fallen out with ?.

If so, pour into their tank - all of it.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 04:23:23 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

several p cheaper than all the garages I'd passed. But I accidentally put
in "gold-plated" premium diesel rather than the normal stuff, so I ended
up paying a lot more than if I'd stopped at one of the more expensive
garages (assuming I hadn't made the same mistake there). To add insult to
injury, the car didn't even run more quietly or more smoothly, or have
better acceleration or better fuel economy. I felt really conned, because
I could perceive no benefit for paying about 10 p/litre more :-(

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

But it is very far from clear whether that has any scientific basis.

HOW very far, Mr Know-it-all? BG

--
Example of typical Rot Speed babble (watch the punctuation used by the
blabbermouth! LOL):
"But it can make a lot more sense to realise that the
really stupid will get the operation they bought
the phone from to set it up so it can be used
than to try to explain to the most stupid who
don¢t even understand what a sim is for how to
get something so small and fiddly into an iphone."
MID:

On 27/09/18 21:18, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

By the time I bought my first diesel car in the mid 90s, diesel was
already level with or even slightly more expensive.

That happened rather later here.

And it still hasn't happened in some European countries either. When I
was on a cruise of various North Sea countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark,
Belgium *) I noticed that most of them were displaying a lower price for
diesel than for petrol. OK, both prices in Norway were stupidly
expensive if you translated them back using the approximation 1 GBP = 10
NOK, but at least diesel was less eye-watering than petrol.

Prices in June this year
FR ‚¬1.45
IT ‚¬1.52€“‚¬1.58
DE ‚¬1.22


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:26:37 +0100, NY wrote:

The oppoiste for the the high reving "sports bikes" that scream
through
the gears up to 10,000 rpm, 'orriblel noise and audible from 4
miles
away.

The worst are off-road scrambler bikes. I went for a nice walk in the
countryside along the Ridgeway Path, and all I could hear for most of
the walk was the distant sound of puny 2-stroke bikes revving up and
down (not even a constant speed).

Presumably riding round and round a course laid out on a nearby
field. That would be annoying but IMHO, not as bad as the sports
bikes screaming up the gears holding for a few seconds then screaming
back down the gears to get round the corners. And it's not just one
every so often, the bikers tend to be in groups of three or four with
several groups per hour if the weather's good on a weekend.

--
Cheers
Dave.

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Wonder why it varys like that. At one stage it was because some
jurisdictions required the diesel to be sulphur free, maybe thats why,
the time that was required varied by country.

Some of it may be due to different tax rules. When diesel was much cheaper
than petrol in the UK, it was largely because it was taxed less severely.

Ours still is, but diesel is now mostly more expensive than petrol.

Fuel is taxed twice: firstly there is a fuel tax which I *think* is a
fixed rate per litre, not related to raw material cost.

Our tax is based on the wholesale/raw material cost.

Then the sales price (which is made up of raw material + fuel tax) is
subject to VAT which is proportional to sales price. Before VAT there was
"purchase tax" which was the same principle.

Ours became more expensive than petrol well
after we moved to our equivalent of your VAT.
And is has always been double taxed like that.

When diesel cars became more common, and it was private cars as well as
just taxis which were diesel,

We never had that for some reason.
They are almost all LPG now.

governments started to increase the amount of fuel tax "because they
could". I believe both petrol and diesel have identical fuel tax now,

Not here.

so the sales price is proportional just to raw material cost, and diesel
costs slightly more to refine, both due to the higher temperatures needed
to evaporate the heavier fractions of crude oil and due to the lower
production amounts leading to poorer economy of scale - or so we are
told...

Not convinced about that line. There is a real sense
in which, if it wasnt for the sulphur problem, diesel
is easier to get from crude and is more likely to be
the less wanted fraction too. And doesnt explain
why the ratio changed over time either.

I think a lot of European countries still tax diesel less heavily, though
that will probably change now that diesel exhaust has got such a bad
press.

It is a sore point in the UK, because in the 1990s the government promoted
diesel cars as the more efficient form of fuel than petrol because of the
better miles per gallon and therefore the lower CO2 emissions.

That didnt happen here.

That is still true, but now we have to take into account NOx and PM10, and
the effects of those weren't as well known about back in the 90s. Try
"selling" the idea that when you replace you car you now have to buy one
which uses more fuel (and produces more CO2) and has much poorer low-speed
torque: having experienced diesel cars, some (like me) are reluctant to go
back.

Of course the big thing is electric cars. They may be wonderful to drive,
with torque from zero speed and so no need for variable gear ratios.
However the range and recharging time are the big killer for anyone who
wants a car for more than a short journey to/from work and who may want to
drive several hundred miles in a day with only meal, toilet and
driver-changeover stops.

And the other massive problem with how you
heat it in winter and cool it in summer. No way
am I going back to the days when the car had
no aircon again and no heater in spades.

And I regularly do long trips in the middle of the night where
I have to be careful about where I fill the tank in a car with a
500Km range on a tank full. Getting to be less of a problem
now with fully automatic petrol stations that dont need to
have anyone there to accept the payment now tho.

Petrol-electric hybrids will be fine - until the government outlaws those
several decades after outlawing diesel- or petrol-mechanical cars which is
scheduled for about 2040.

I doubt they will have the electoral balls to do that with Britain out of
the EU.

Hybrid cars are only any use if they have big enough batteries that the
car can be driven entirely on battery within a city, only using the
fossil-fuel engine when they are in the more-sparsely populated
countryside outside the city, to keep pollution out of city centres. But
hybrids can only run for a short distance on battery, and rely entirely on
having an engine that is more efficient at constant speed that at variable
speed as with a mechanical transmission.

Yeah, not viable IMO. And the other problem is the cost of having
both the very expensive big batterys and a full IC engine too.

How many people want to buy two cars: one electric for shorter journeys
with long recharging stops while you are are work or shopping, and the
other a hybrid for longer journeys with fast refuelling time. Not
unreasonably, people want one car that does both :-)

And our stupid system means that you pay twice
as much for registration and compulsory insurance.

When an electric car can restore a range of 700 miles with a recharge of a
few minutes (as happens with a petrol/diesel car) I'll buy one.

I wont because of the problem with heating and
aircon and the much higher price for the car.

But that it not practical because it requires energy to be taken on board
at a rate of several megawatts. (60 litres = 60 * 35 MJ, refuelled in 5
minutes - being pessimistic about refuelling time).

Yeah, a tho machine done battery swap might be viable.

Come back Beeching and see how we might need all those railway lines you
closed down in 1963, if private transport becomes expensive or impossible
once fossil fuel is banned completely.

I dont believe that will ever happen. Bet we end up using
nukes producing hydrogen and still have private cars.

The bigger trucks are still predominantly diesel still, but
thats because those big diesel engines are much more
fuel efficient and so the fuel price isnt so important.

I'm not sure that any trucks in the UK are petrol.

Some of the smaller ones are.

Certainly not 44-tonne heavy goods vehicles, and probably most vans (Ford
Transit size) are diesel.

Bet they arent.

And strange that Norway is so expensive
given that they are a major oil producer
too. Maybe its most tax that does that.

Everything in Norway is expensive because their standard of living is high
but then salaries are higher.

Their phone usage charges and electricity arent.

Effectively the conversion rate between GBP and NOK is "wrong", in that a
typical salary in one country is higher than in the other when both are
converted to the same currency,

That isnt what determines floating exchange rates.

but shop prices are higher in the same proportion. In an ideal world, a
given "reference job" or a given "reference item" in a shop should be the
same in all countries when you convert to same currency.

Its never worked like that.

Part of the problem with the EU is that some eastern European countries
have a lower costs of living than those in western Europe, so there is an
incentive for people from the east to move to the west to earn more in
numerical terms and then send their earnings back home where they will buy
more goods. A ruling that immigrants can only spend their earnings in the
country of employment would *not* be popular :-)

And even grossly restricting what can be sent out of the
country like Britain did at one time doesnt work either.

On 28/09/2018 17:16, NY wrote:

My very knowledgeable garage advises premium diesel every tenth refill.

Is that the same "very knowledgeable garage" that also sells premium
diesel - do they make more money that way?

No they don't sell fuel. They mostly sort out faults that the main
dealers send to them because they are stumped.

Bill

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:23:06 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Wonder why it varys like that. At one stage it was because some
jurisdictions required the diesel to be sulphur free, maybe that¢s why,
the time that was required varied by country.

Some of it may be due to different tax rules. When diesel was much cheaper
than petrol in the UK, it was largely because it was taxed less severely.

Ours still is,

Doesn't count! This is a UK group, senile Ozzietard!

Fuel is taxed twice: firstly there is a fuel tax which I *think* is a
fixed rate per litre, not related to raw material cost.

Our tax

Doesn't count! This is a UK group, senile Ozzietard!


Then the sales price (which is made up of raw material + fuel tax) is
subject to VAT which is proportional to sales price. Before VAT there was
"purchase tax" which was the same principle.

Ours

Doesn't count! This is a UK group, senile Ozzietard!

When diesel cars became more common, and it was private cars as well as
just taxis which were diesel,

We never had

Doesn't count! This is a UK group, senile Ozzietard!

governments started to increase the amount of fuel tax "because they
could". I believe both petrol and diesel have identical fuel tax now,

Not here.

Doesn't count! This is a UK group, senile Ozzietard!

FLUSH the rest of the nym-shifting troll's usual senile bull**** unread
again

--
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Senile Rot: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own ****?"

Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."

Senile Rot: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the ****."

MID:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:26:37 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
vidual.net...
Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive.

Yep, we don't hear the big Harely's going along Hartside 4 miles away
and when they pass us it's not unpleasant. The oppoiste for the the
high reving "sports bikes" that scream through the gears up to 10,000
rpm, 'orriblel noise and audible from 4 miles away.

The worst are off-road scrambler bikes.

I think they are likely to be '(Moto)crossers' these days. ;-)

I went for a nice walk in the
countryside along the Ridgeway Path, and all I could hear for most of the
walk was the distant sound of puny 2-stroke bikes revving up and down (not
even a constant speed).

Again, some of them aren't 'puny' (in their power abilities for their
cc) all be it that they don't have much in the way of a flywheel and
so do rely on revs for it.

Conversely a large touring bike passed right next to
me as the path crosses a road, and its noise was only audible for a minute
as it approached and departed,

That could easily have been my 1000cc BMW. A couple of regular lady
pillions are known to fall asleep on the back of it on a long trip.
;-)

and even at worst it was much less intrusive.

Yes, the pitch, tone and volume are all geared (honed in the design
labs) as a compromise between sound levels, 'sound' and efficiency
across a wide rev range, till some dick rips that piece of engineering
off and fits some generic aftermarket (and expensive) loud POS on
there, often to massage their own ego [1]. They are the bike
equivalent of a long car bonnet. ;-)

Daughter had a PW50 and then a TY80 (kiddy motorbikes) and I made sure
that the exhausts and baffles were fitted and working on both. We also
did sound tests, with her riding round the field, I walked away and
tested how far the sound traveled at any sort of level (and the answer
was 'not very').

When she got her last bike, a 600 Bandit it came with an aftermarket
exhaust (because the stock offerings do rust away over time) and even
with the baffle out it didn't sound too bad, especially at low
throttle openings. She still bought and fitted the baffle, probably
because she doesn't want to p anyone off, doesn't have anything to
prove and doesn't want to go deaf. ;-)

Cheer, T i m

[1] The say these aftermarket exhausts are lighter for 'performance'
and whilst they often are, without full dyno work they may well not
perform as well as the stock offering and they could generally run
lighter overall if they ate less pies. ;-)

T i m Wrote in message:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:26:37 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ividual.net...
Lower pitch tends to be (IMO) less intrusive.

Yep, we don't hear the big Harely's going along Hartside 4 miles away
and when they pass us it's not unpleasant. The oppoiste for the the
high reving "sports bikes" that scream through the gears up to 10,000
rpm, 'orriblel noise and audible from 4 miles away.

The worst are off-road scrambler bikes.

I think they are likely to be '(Moto)crossers' these days. ;-)

I went for a nice walk in the
countryside along the Ridgeway Path, and all I could hear for most of the
walk was the distant sound of puny 2-stroke bikes revving up and down (not
even a constant speed).

Again, some of them aren't 'puny' (in their power abilities for their
cc) all be it that they don't have much in the way of a flywheel and
so do rely on revs for it.

Conversely a large touring bike passed right next to
me as the path crosses a road, and its noise was only audible for a minute
as it approached and departed,

That could easily have been my 1000cc BMW. A couple of regular lady
pillions are known to fall asleep on the back of it on a long trip.
;-)

Ello ello!

Maybe they just turn the intercom off...
;-)

--
Jim K


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On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:56:57 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Jim K
wrote:

snip

That could easily have been my 1000cc BMW. A couple of regular lady
pillions are known to fall asleep on the back of it on a long trip.
;-)

Ello ello!

Maybe they just turn the intercom off...
;-)

If anyone was to be doing that it was me. ;-)

The Mrs only ran the Autocom (rider pillion intercom) with the
daughter pillion once and that was enough. Too distracting apparently.

However, daughter and I had no problem as she knew there would be
times when I didn't reply ... or would turn the music down because I
needed to concentrate (more).

Pre GPS it was great to have her map read and relay directions to me
over the Intercom. Whilst I generally knew where we were going, I let
her believe we were following her instructions as 1) it gave her
something to do and 2) she learned more about the country and roads
etc.

Till it was dark / raining (or she was asleep) and so the GPS was a
real boon, especially finding the campsites.

She did once manage to find us a(n avoidable) toll road that was quite
funny (on a road from Beamish (Durham) to Skegness).

Cheers, T i m