On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:40:39 +1000, "543dsa" wrote:



"Tim Streater" wrote in message
. ..
In article , MM
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 11:11:19 UTC+1, MM wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:40:07 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 25/09/2018 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
We need to define democracy. It seems to mean whatever gets them
back
into
power as many politicians like many rock stars start to believe they
are
the
saviour of society and cannot possibly be wrong.

To the Athenians, who invented it, democracy meant giving every
citizen* the right to vote on every issue - effectively a referendum
on every decision.

* Citizens had to be male, property owners and have completed military
training.

To my mind, democracy means having the right to change one's mind when
the facts change. Already half the lifetime of a normal session of
government (five years) has elapsed and we know a *heck* of a lot more
now about the ramifications of leaving. A new poll of Labour Party
members shows that over 80% want now to remain in the EU. Business
Insider UK reported on 4 September that 2.6 million voters have
switched support from leave to remain.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-p...it-voters-now-
want-to-remain-in-the-eu-2018-9?r=US&IR=T

MM

The facts have not changed since the referendum..

But the fact is, many more voters are now aware of the facts.

Any future changes will be for the worse.
Eg, EUSSR army.

Why is that a change for the worse, given the threat Putin poses?

We already have NATO. What we don't have, are that many countries other
than the US and the UK who are ready to put their defence money where
their mouth is. So you might be entitled to wonder what the "EU Army"
is for.

So the EU doesnt have to get the US to agree with what its used for.
It did in fact take a long time before NATO got involved in the fiasco
in Bosnia when Clinton was Prez. And Ike made Britain and France
back off militarily in Suez.


Yes, the Suez "crisis". Serving foreign interests back then and now nothing has changed.
UK and France went to war to fight (again and again) for issues that were not in our interests.
The UK foreign policy has always failed, even the foriegn office admitted that about 3 years ago.
UK armed forces are bleeding soldiers because they do not want to fight for non UK issues.

"Anonymous" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:40:39 +1000, "543dsa" wrote:



"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article , MM
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 11:11:19 UTC+1, MM wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:40:07 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 25/09/2018 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
We need to define democracy. It seems to mean whatever gets them
back
into
power as many politicians like many rock stars start to believe
they
are
the
saviour of society and cannot possibly be wrong.

To the Athenians, who invented it, democracy meant giving every
citizen* the right to vote on every issue - effectively a referendum
on every decision.

* Citizens had to be male, property owners and have completed
military
training.

To my mind, democracy means having the right to change one's mind
when
the facts change. Already half the lifetime of a normal session of
government (five years) has elapsed and we know a *heck* of a lot
more
now about the ramifications of leaving. A new poll of Labour Party
members shows that over 80% want now to remain in the EU. Business
Insider UK reported on 4 September that 2.6 million voters have
switched support from leave to remain.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-p...it-voters-now-
want-to-remain-in-the-eu-2018-9?r=US&IR=T

MM

The facts have not changed since the referendum..

But the fact is, many more voters are now aware of the facts.

Any future changes will be for the worse.
Eg, EUSSR army.

Why is that a change for the worse, given the threat Putin poses?

We already have NATO. What we don't have, are that many countries other
than the US and the UK who are ready to put their defence money where
their mouth is. So you might be entitled to wonder what the "EU Army"
is for.

So the EU doesnt have to get the US to agree with what its used for.
It did in fact take a long time before NATO got involved in the fiasco
in Bosnia when Clinton was Prez. And Ike made Britain and France
back off militarily in Suez.


Yes, the Suez "crisis". Serving foreign interests back then

That was serving their own interests given they had built the canal.

and now nothing has changed.

Quite a bit has, actually. Even you should have noticed that
Britain hasnt been running Egypt for quite a while now.

UK and France went to war to fight (again and
again) for issues that were not in our interests.

Thats very arguable with the canal.

The UK foreign policy has always failed, even the
foriegn office admitted that about 3 years ago.

Like hell they did on your always.

UK armed forces are bleeding soldiers because
they do not want to fight for non UK issues.

Its bleeding soldiers because the unemployment rate is so low.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 05:41:46 +1000, 543dsa, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Yes, the Suez "crisis". Serving foreign interests back then

That was serving their own interests given they had built the canal.

Yeah, senile Rot knows it better!

and now nothing has changed.

Quite a bit has, actually. Even you should have noticed that
Britain hasn¢t been running Egypt for quite a while now.

Yeah, senile Rot knows it better!

UK and France went to war to fight (again and
again) for issues that were not in our interests.

That¢s very arguable with the canal.

Yeah, senile Rot knows it better!

FLUSH rest of the usual self-opinionated senile drivel

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: