Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?
--
Roland Perry

On 23/09/2018 13:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

Skimming over existing paint can be hit and miss. Usual technique is to
apply PVA and skim whilst still slightly tacky. It is unreliable and can
fall or flake off.

The way I have seen with your issue is to widen the crack and apply
caulk, and then repaint. Caulking will be more flexible than a thin
layer of (skimmed) plaster.

Roland Perry Wrote in message:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

No.
You could use gyproc drywall joint filler rather than plaster. You
can/could get it ready to use in big tubs, it feathers out to
nothing. Take time with a wide drywall joint knife (8" wide) and
you'd only need a light sand (dust mask!) before
painting...
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 23/09/18 13:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?
No, but in fact plyfilla and sanding my be all you need it its just
shrinkage

Or do that then put lining paper over and paint..

lining paper or even brown parcel paper is remarkably strong

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

In message , at 14:15:26 on Sun, 23 Sep
2018, Fredxx remarked:
On 23/09/2018 13:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's)
ceiling can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term,
by using the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets,
skimmed over and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

Skimming over existing paint can be hit and miss. Usual technique is to
apply PVA and skim whilst still slightly tacky. It is unreliable and
can fall or flake off.

The way I have seen with your issue is to widen the crack and apply
caulk, and then repaint. Caulking will be more flexible than a thin
layer of (skimmed) plaster.

Wouldn't it help to apply some plasterboard tape over the widened crack?

I suppose the issue is: what does one fill the crack above such tape
with.

Maybe a modern flexible adhesive at £5 a tube, rather than caulk at £1?
--
Roland Perry

On 23/09/2018 14:34, Jim K wrote:
Fredxx Wrote in message:
On 23/09/2018 13:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

Skimming over existing paint can be hit and miss. Usual technique is to
apply PVA and skim whilst still slightly tacky. It is unreliable and can
fall or flake off.

The way I have seen with your issue is to widen the crack and apply
caulk, and then repaint. Caulking will be more flexible than a thin
layer of (skimmed) plaster.

Ime trying to caulk previously flat surfaces flat again doesn't
work as ordinary caulk shrinks, cannot be sanded successfully &
can be as much of an eyesore as the crack you're trying to deal
with...
YMMV

I was an observer rather than doing the job myself. The idea was to
widen the crack to 7-8mm or so and press in and fill. Perhaps more than
one go to get level? But the painted finished looked fine.

As you say YMMV

Fredxx Wrote in message:
On 23/09/2018 13:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

Skimming over existing paint can be hit and miss. Usual technique is to
apply PVA and skim whilst still slightly tacky. It is unreliable and can
fall or flake off.

The way I have seen with your issue is to widen the crack and apply
caulk, and then repaint. Caulking will be more flexible than a thin
layer of (skimmed) plaster.



Ime trying to caulk previously flat surfaces flat again doesn't
work as ordinary caulk shrinks, cannot be sanded successfully &
can be as much of an eyesore as the crack you're trying to deal
with...
YMMV
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:00:03 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

You can, but it's making the job unnecessarily large. Just wipe some filler on with a finger, job done.

Don't gauge the crack out, it's a foolish practice.


NT

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions. Some
Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using the
tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over and
then painted with something reasonably gunky?
--
Roland Perry

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:00:03 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?
--
Roland Perry

There is no method that is guaranteed to succeed.
Apart from removal and renewal.

Applying scrim with a PVA mixed with plaster gives the best chance.
EG. https://www.gltproducts.com/products...cky-fab)-20130

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

I've found a good flexible filler like decorator's caulk works well - but
since it shrinks will need several applications to get an invisible joint.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , at
07:04:48 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, harry
remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:00:03 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

There is no method that is guaranteed to succeed.
Apart from removal and renewal.

The whole ceiling????

Applying scrim with a PVA mixed with plaster gives the best chance.
EG. https://www.gltproducts.com/products...cky-fab)-20130

That's precisely the scheme I was asking about. Will probably give it a
go then.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/09/2018 14:38, Fredxx wrote:

I was an observer rather than doing the job myself. The idea was to
widen the crack to 7-8mm or so and press in and fill. Perhaps more than
one go to get level? But the painted finished looked fine.

As you say YMMV


It depends on what caused the crack. In my 1900s house the joists were
rather "springy" and after repairing cracks in a lath and plaster
ceiling they very soon opened up again when someone walked on the floor
above.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 23/09/2018 15:17, alan_m wrote:
On 23/09/2018 14:38, Fredxx wrote:

I was an observer rather than doing the job myself. The idea was to
widen the crack to 7-8mm or so and press in and fill. Perhaps more
than one go to get level? But the painted finished looked fine.

As you say YMMV


It depends on what caused the crack.Â* In my 1900s house the joists were
rather "springy" and after repairing cracks in a lath and plaster
ceiling they very soon opened up again when someone walked on the floor
above.

Plaster has little or no give in it, whereas caulk and acrylic paints do.

On 23/09/2018 15:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.


+1

And if it moves then, IMLE with late 19th lath and plaster ceilings here
and in neighbours' houses, opening up the cracks on is one for the bold
and courageous. OTOH papering a ceiling is a _lot_ easier than it used
to be using Wallrock Fibreliner or the like which is very forgiving of
being pulled, pushed, wrapped around a head, left soaking while you have
a brew...

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:47:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?

If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.


NT

On 23/09/2018 17:50, Peter Parry wrote:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 21:58:22 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/09/2018 17:50, Peter Parry wrote:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

copyright. Wiki could link to them though.


NT

In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.
--
Roland Perry

On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.

Yes, so many people do that. Wiping it in with a finger means nothing is left proud, no problems down the line.


NT

In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.

Yes, so many people do that. Wiping it in with a finger means nothing
is left proud, no problems down the line.

Would you suggest we simply sanded the proudness down, and repainted?
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 21:58:22 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/09/2018 17:50, Peter Parry wrote:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

copyright. Wiki could link to them though.

As the book was published in 1948 and Odhams are long gone I'm not
sure there would be a problem with that. I've now got it scanned as
a PDF so if anyone wants to have a look I'll mail it and if people
feel it is useful I'll put it on the Vikki or park it somewhere it can
be linked to.

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork or masonry.
2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.

Yes, so many people do that. Wiping it in with a finger means nothing
is left proud, no problems down the line.

Would you suggest we simply sanded the proudness down, and repainted?

if you can do that, great. A lot of people seem to decide they can't. Bear in mind that paper is not sandable to any practical extent, so it can only work if the ceiling is already skimmed, which they usually are.


NT

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork or masonry.
2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

If the house dates from the 1900's then the ceiling, unless it has
been replaced in the recent past, is not going to be plasterboard
(invented about 1916 and not common until the 50's) but lath and
plaster.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally lath
and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this house.
Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type stuff soon
cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably not available
earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of fiddle to do -
perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , at
02:26:18 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't
cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard
is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork
or masonry.

It's not plasterboard - lathe and plaster.

2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.

Yes, so many people do that. Wiping it in with a finger means nothing
is left proud, no problems down the line.

Would you suggest we simply sanded the proudness down, and repainted?

if you can do that, great. A lot of people seem to decide they can't.
Bear in mind that paper is not sandable to any practical extent,

When did I suggest sanding of paper?

so it can only work if the ceiling is already skimmed, which they
usually are.

Do people often skim lathe and plaster ceilings? Genuine question, I
have no data.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:25:37 on
Mon, 24 Sep 2018, Peter Parry remarked:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

copyright. Wiki could link to them though.

As the book was published in 1948 and Odhams are long gone I'm not
sure there would be a problem with that. I've now got it scanned as
a PDF so if anyone wants to have a look I'll mail it

Yes please.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:48:00 on Mon, 24 Sep
2018, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:
Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally lath
and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this house.
Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type stuff soon
cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably not available
earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of fiddle to do -
perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

Are those rectangular cracks aligned with the plasterboard sheets?

The ones I'm looking at are random and especially in the corners of the
room at 45 degrees to the walls.
--
Roland Perry

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:00:03 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?
--
Roland Perry

You used to be able to get a lining paper which had a linen mesh backing. It was quite expensive but very resilient. My mother's bedroom had a cracked ceiling from a wartime bomb nearby and the crack never re-appeared once it was lined.

Jonathan

Peter Parry Wrote in message:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork or masonry.
2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

If the house dates from the 1900's then the ceiling, unless it has
been replaced in the recent past, is not going to be plasterboard
(invented about 1916 and not common until the 50's) but lath and
plaster.


Indeed. :-)
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Jonathan Wrote in message:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:00:03 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Is there any reason why cracks in a traditional (early 1900's) ceiling
can't be treated, at least cosmetically for the medium term, by using
the tape which joins together modern plasterboard sheets, skimmed over
and then painted with something reasonably gunky?
--
Roland Perry

You used to be able to get a lining paper which had a linen mesh backing. It was quite expensive but very resilient. My mother's bedroom had a cracked ceiling from a wartime bomb nearby and the crack never re-appeared once it was lined.

Jonathan


Sounds like the fibreroc stuff mentioned earlier ( by someone
who'd done it successfully, rather than someone who imagined
it/failed...)
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:28:52 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 21:58:22 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/09/2018 17:50, Peter Parry wrote:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

copyright. Wiki could link to them though.

As the book was published in 1948 and Odhams are long gone I'm not
sure there would be a problem with that. I've now got it scanned as
a PDF so if anyone wants to have a look I'll mail it and if people
feel it is useful I'll put it on the Vikki or park it somewhere it can
be linked to.

It's most likely someone owns the copyright, so not wiki material. I would like to see a change in the law on that, but there it is.


NT

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:42:49 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork or masonry.
2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

If the house dates from the 1900's then the ceiling, unless it has
been replaced in the recent past, is not going to be plasterboard
(invented about 1916 and not common until the 50's) but lath and
plaster.

Most such ceilings have been ripped out & plasterboarded by now. Either way the same applies.


NT

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:52:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which directions.
Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally lath
and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this house.
Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type stuff soon
cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably not available
earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of fiddle to do -
perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

well that's one way to demonstrate you don't know what constitutes proof.

On Monday, 24 September 2018 11:04:32 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
02:26:18 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:04:29 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
01:07:23 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 07:23:23 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:07:43 on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, tabbypurr remarked:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't
cope with a
lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of flexibility
to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to move more or it's
not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what you do.

Do you mean it would crack somewhere else, or that the joint constructed
of flexible filler would open up?

either, if the ceiling decides to move more.

My idea was to use non-flexible filler but to bind the edges together
with fibreglass reinforcing tape. The plaster would first have to be
slightly ground away to make the final result flush, of course.

lots of people have that idea. It's a waste of time.

What's the undesirable consequence - tearing of the reinforcing tape, or
a crack somewhere else.

1. as I explained if the ceiling wants to crack it will. Plasterboard
is not strong enough in tension to resist the wishes of moving woodwork
or masonry.

It's not plasterboard - lathe and plaster.

same applies

2. it's a waste of time
3. it makes a mess of the finish, which then needs correcting

Currently the cracks aren't actually opened up, but the filler from a
previous decoration attempt (could be 10+ yrs ago, but I don't know) is
proud of the surface and looks bad.

Yes, so many people do that. Wiping it in with a finger means nothing
is left proud, no problems down the line.

Would you suggest we simply sanded the proudness down, and repainted?

if you can do that, great. A lot of people seem to decide they can't.
Bear in mind that paper is not sandable to any practical extent,

When did I suggest sanding of paper?

when did anyone claim you did?

so it can only work if the ceiling is already skimmed, which they
usually are.

Do people often skim lathe and plaster ceilings? Genuine question, I
have no data.

they have done. They're often in too bad a shape for that though.

They're laths, lathes are too heavy


NT

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 07:41:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, 24 September 2018 11:04:32 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:


It's not plasterboard - lathe and plaster.

same applies

Not really, lath and plaster uses lime plaster which is soft and
accommodates some movement. Gypsum plasters and plasterboards are much
more rigid so mixing both types is a recipe for failure.

On 24/09/2018 10:04, Roland Perry wrote:


Would you suggest we simply sanded the proudness down, and repainted?

If each side of the crack is at the same level sanding down may be OK if
the previously filled crack hasn't reappeared.

Often what happens on a lath and plaster ceiling is one side of the
crack drops relative to the other side so the filler needs to not only
plug the crack but also be extended to disguise the different levels. If
the plaster on my 1900s ceilings and walls is anything to go by then it
may be difficult to sand down the old plaster. In my house the plaster
surface is very hard but break through this very thin layer and it just
crumbles away if sanded.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Monday, 24 September 2018 17:24:22 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 07:41:01 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 11:04:32 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:


It's not plasterboard - lathe and plaster.

same applies

Not really, lath and plaster uses lime plaster which is soft and
accommodates some movement. Gypsum plasters and plasterboards are much
more rigid so mixing both types is a recipe for failure.

Lime in brickwork accomodates movement by microcracking then healing by growing crystals across the gaps. I don't know whether L&P ceilings do likewise. Either way by the time it has visibly cracked it's immaterial.


NT