On 24/09/18 10:25, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 21:58:22 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/09/2018 17:50, Peter Parry wrote:
If it is a lath and plaster ceiling then I've got a 1940's Odhams
"Practical Home Handyman" which devotes a chapter to repairing lath
and plaster (with diagrams). I can scan them and e-mail them if you
wish.

Or you could put them up on the DIY Wiki for us all to refer to at need.

Andy

copyright. Wiki could link to them though.

As the book was published in 1948 and Odhams are long gone I'm not
sure there would be a problem with that. I've now got it scanned as
a PDF so if anyone wants to have a look I'll mail it and if people
feel it is useful I'll put it on the Vikki or park it somewhere it can
be linked to.



yes please.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 24/09/2018 10:25, Peter Parry wrote:
As the book was published in 1948 and Odhams are long gone I'm not
sure there would be a problem with that. I've now got it scanned as
a PDF so if anyone wants to have a look I'll mail it and if people
feel it is useful I'll put it on the Vikki or park it somewhere it can
be linked to.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-practical-home-handyman/author/matthew-w-p-ed/

Under a fiver. Nobody would bother.

In message , at
13:14:46 on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, remarked:
It's not plasterboard - lathe and plaster.

same applies

Not really, lath and plaster uses lime plaster which is soft and
accommodates some movement. Gypsum plasters and plasterboards are much
more rigid so mixing both types is a recipe for failure.

Lime in brickwork accomodates movement by microcracking then healing by
growing crystals across the gaps. I don't know whether L&P ceilings do
likewise. Either way by the time it has visibly cracked it's immaterial.

By the time it's visibly cracked, any process for accommodating movement
has been over-stretched.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:52:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which
directions. Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of
flexibility to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to
move more or it's not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what
you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally
lath and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this
house. Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type
stuff soon cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably
not available earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of
fiddle to do - perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

well that's one way to demonstrate you don't know what constitutes proof.

You really are an odd little cat. It is proof it worked here when other
fillers failed. Unlike some, I give tips which have worked well for me.
Not something read off the net, or whatever.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 14:13:00 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:52:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which
directions. Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of
flexibility to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to
move more or it's not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what
you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally
lath and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this
house. Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type
stuff soon cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably
not available earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of
fiddle to do - perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

well that's one way to demonstrate you don't know what constitutes proof.

You really are an odd little cat. It is proof it worked here when other
fillers failed. Unlike some, I give tips which have worked well for me.
Not something read off the net, or whatever.

that's one way to demonstrate you truly don't understand proof.

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 14:13:00 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:52:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which
directions. Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of
flexibility to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to
move more or it's not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what
you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally
lath and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this
house. Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type
stuff soon cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably
not available earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of
fiddle to do - perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

well that's one way to demonstrate you don't know what constitutes proof.

You really are an odd little cat. It is proof it worked here when other
fillers failed. Unlike some, I give tips which have worked well for me.
Not something read off the net, or whatever.

that's one way to demonstrate you truly don't understand proof.

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect you
to understand that.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 00:51:13 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 14:13:00 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:52:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 23 September 2018 15:22:33 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Depends very much how much movement there is and in which
directions. Some Victorian houses seem to move a heck of a lot!

Yes. Hence you needing a flexible filler. But even that won't cope
with a lot of movement. But then neither would brand new plaster.

Flexible fillers have nowhere near the necessary amount of
flexibility to prevent recracking. Either the ceiling's going to
move more or it's not: if it does, it will crack regardless of what
you do.

Err, I have the proof here. Ceiling in the living area - originally
lath and plaster - was replaced by plasterboard before I bought this
house. Several joins showed. Filling with a variety of Polyfilla type
stuff soon cracked again. Used decorator's caulk last time (probably
not available earlier) and that has held nicely. But did take a lot of
fiddle to do - perhaps 4 or 5 times because of shrinkage.

well that's one way to demonstrate you don't know what constitutes proof.

You really are an odd little cat. It is proof it worked here when other
fillers failed. Unlike some, I give tips which have worked well for me.
Not something read off the net, or whatever.

that's one way to demonstrate you truly don't understand proof.

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect you
to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no known reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house not moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect
you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no known
reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house not
moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly. And ceilings deflect when
people walk on the floor above. And so on.

Perhaps you never decorate.

--
*El nino made me do it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect
you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no known
reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house not
moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly.

a lot of houses that move do so irregularly. I don't suppose you've collected movement data.

And ceilings deflect when
people walk on the floor above. And so on.

yes, though that doesn't usually break the ceiling.

Perhaps you never decorate.

perhaps logic ain't your thing.


NT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect
you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no known
reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house not
moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly. And ceilings deflect when
people walk on the floor above. And so on.

Perhaps you never decorate.

I was looking round a house that I was considering buying. It was a
two-storey house and the loft had been converted into a fourth bedroom. All
the ceilings of the first-floor rooms had big cracks across them - in one
case it spread several feet either side of a ceiling rose light fitting. The
floor of the new lost room felt a bit springy and one part of it creaked.

I have a feeling they had the conversion done on the cheap and didn't get
the loft rafters upgraded/strengthened when it was converted from loft
(occasional human weight, and suitcases/cardboard boxes) to bedroom (point
sources for bed legs, continuous walking over the surface).

We turned the house down on the grounds that big cracks in the bedroom
ceilings did not look good.

You'd think at the very least when they put the house on the market they'd
have had the ceilings re-skimmed to hide such obvious cracks.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 12:21:53 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not expect
you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no known
reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house not
moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly. And ceilings deflect when
people walk on the floor above. And so on.

Perhaps you never decorate.

I was looking round a house that I was considering buying. It was a
two-storey house and the loft had been converted into a fourth bedroom. All
the ceilings of the first-floor rooms had big cracks across them - in one
case it spread several feet either side of a ceiling rose light fitting. The
floor of the new lost room felt a bit springy and one part of it creaked.

I have a feeling they had the conversion done on the cheap and didn't get
the loft rafters upgraded/strengthened when it was converted from loft
(occasional human weight, and suitcases/cardboard boxes) to bedroom (point
sources for bed legs, continuous walking over the surface).

We turned the house down on the grounds that big cracks in the bedroom
ceilings did not look good.

You'd think at the very least when they put the house on the market they'd
have had the ceilings re-skimmed to hide such obvious cracks.

you might have got a good deal and fixed it, profiting many thousands. Most people's blacklist houses are my whitelist.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not
expect you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no
known reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house
not moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly.

a lot of houses that move do so irregularly. I don't suppose you've
collected movement data.

No - I'd leave that for pedants like you. I tend to just give advice on
here I know has worked for me. It once was a DIY group, where people
shared tips on doing things.

And ceilings deflect when people walk on the floor above. And so on.

yes, though that doesn't usually break the ceiling.

Didn't realise you knew my house so well.

Perhaps you never decorate.

perhaps logic ain't your thing.


NT

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
NY wrote:
I was looking round a house that I was considering buying. It was a
two-storey house and the loft had been converted into a fourth bedroom.
All the ceilings of the first-floor rooms had big cracks across them -
in one case it spread several feet either side of a ceiling rose light
fitting. The floor of the new lost room felt a bit springy and one part
of it creaked.

I have a feeling they had the conversion done on the cheap and didn't
get the loft rafters upgraded/strengthened when it was converted from
loft (occasional human weight, and suitcases/cardboard boxes) to
bedroom (point sources for bed legs, continuous walking over the
surface).

We turned the house down on the grounds that big cracks in the bedroom
ceilings did not look good.

You'd think at the very least when they put the house on the market
they'd have had the ceilings re-skimmed to hide such obvious cracks.

Perhaps you were lucky they'd not just bodged it for sale?

My house had originally lath and plaster. Replaced by plasterboard after,
I was told, war damage. As all the cornices had gone too. All wood floors
deflect to some extent, and depending on the load on them. Whether you get
cracks or not depends on many things.

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
you might have got a good deal and fixed it, profiting many thousands.
Most people's blacklist houses are my whitelist.

Is that why you post duff gen about not using grommets and earth sleeving
here?

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 14:10:14 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

No such things as proof when it comes to fillers. But I'd not
expect you to understand that.

I doubt anyone does You take one data point only, decide for no
known reason that the result was due to the filler and not the house
not moving again, and declare proof. That's a guess.

It's not a guess that my house moves regularly.

a lot of houses that move do so irregularly. I don't suppose you've
collected movement data.

No - I'd leave that for pedants like you.

I have done it, and not for pedantry. Houses do move irregularly. That's why yours no longer cracking does not prove the flexible filler flexes enough to stop cracks. It's just basic reasoning.

I tend to just give advice on
here I know has worked for me.

that's what it was until you claimed one sample point was proof.

It once was a DIY group, where people
shared tips on doing things.

And ceilings deflect when people walk on the floor above. And so on.

yes, though that doesn't usually break the ceiling.

Didn't realise you knew my house so well.

I haven't claimed to. Give it a rest.

NT

Perhaps you never decorate.

perhaps logic ain't your thing.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 14:20:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

you might have got a good deal and fixed it, profiting many thousands.
Most people's blacklist houses are my whitelist.

Is that why you post duff gen about not using grommets and earth sleeving
here?

if it's duff please show us the deaths caused by omission of those 2 items.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 14:20:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

you might have got a good deal and fixed it, profiting many
thousands. Most people's blacklist houses are my whitelist.

Is that why you post duff gen about not using grommets and earth
sleeving here?

if it's duff please show us the deaths caused by omission of those 2
items.

Interesting. The only reason in your mind to do anything is to prevent
death.

--
*I don't have a solution, but I admire your problem. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 27 September 2018 00:09:37 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 14:20:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

you might have got a good deal and fixed it, profiting many
thousands. Most people's blacklist houses are my whitelist.

Is that why you post duff gen about not using grommets and earth
sleeving here?

if it's duff please show us the deaths caused by omission of those 2
items.

Interesting. The only reason in your mind to do anything is to prevent
death.

plonk.