We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back
there in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She
is "difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would
refuse to start on any permanent extension.
--
Bill

On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:00:03 +0100, Bill wrote:


I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

Search for bathroom pods such as
https://taplanes.co.uk/products/view/10/arran-pod
https://www.walkermodular.com/bathro...e-bathroom-pod
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bathroom-...-/182314300349


Commonly used to turn hotel rooms in older buildings to en-suite.

On 11/08/2018 16:00, Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back
there in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She
is "difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would
refuse to start on any permanent extension.

Any chance that you could move her closer to God?

--
Adam

Bill formulated on Saturday :
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told she
could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see sense and
try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities downstairs,
but she is convinced that she will be able to move back there in September to
be back with her memories of her late husband. She is "difficult", very
religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked over
the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to provide, at
the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge amount
of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would refuse to start
on any permanent extension.

A stair lift might be simpler?

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Bill formulated on Saturday :

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a
huge amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder
would refuse to start on any permanent extension.

A stair lift might be simpler?

Or not? Any electrician would say the house needs rewiring, the stairs
have a hairpin bend in the middle, and the bathroom has no shower.
There's more, but it gets very, very depressing.

Anything suggested by us has been firmly rejected by the owner over the
years.
--
Bill

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:00:03 +0100, Bill wrote:


I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

Search for bathroom pods such as
https://taplanes.co.uk/products/view/10/arran-pod
https://www.walkermodular.com/bathro...ods/s3wb-compo
site-bathroom-pod
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bathroom-...sules-Modular-
En-Suites-unit-shower-disabled-/182314300349


Commonly used to turn hotel rooms in older buildings to en-suite.

Hmmm, very interesting. I hadn't heard the term bathroom pod before.

I was thinking of something like that, but outside the house, as inside
the kitchen seems to me to be the only possible sensible space.

Thanks for the pointer.
--
Bill

On Saturday, 11 August 2018 16:00:20 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

A friend-of-a-friend hired one while their house was being renovated.

http://www.portakabin.co.uk/accessib...ed-shower.html
https://tardishire.co.uk/toilet-hire...e-shower-hire/
etc, from most of the mobile cabin hire places.

There are also bolt-on pod extensions but these would need some foundations, planning etc.

http://www.mphbuildingsystems.co.uk/...nsion-project/
http://www.mphbuildingsystems.co.uk/homecare.html
https://modularwise.co.uk/modular-bu.../bathroom-pods

Craning over a house is possible, but you may need to pay Openreach lots of money to move the phone wires while you do it.

A cheap caravan parked on the drive might be another option, or if she won't move from the couch a cheap motorcaravan, then you can drive her to the hospital etc and park her there.

Social Work should have access to a day centre where she can be bathed occasionally.

Owain

In message ,
writes
A friend-of-a-friend hired one while their house was being renovated.

http://www.portakabin.co.uk/accessib...ed-shower.html
https://tardishire.co.uk/toilet-hire...e-shower-hire/
etc, from most of the mobile cabin hire places.

There are also bolt-on pod extensions but these would need some
foundations, planning etc.

http://www.mphbuildingsystems.co.uk/...extension-proj
ect/
http://www.mphbuildingsystems.co.uk/homecare.html
https://modularwise.co.uk/modular-bu.../bathroom-pods

Craning over a house is possible, but you may need to pay Openreach
lots of money to move the phone wires while you do it.


Thanks for those url's. Very helpful.

A cheap caravan parked on the drive might be another option, or if she
won't move from the couch a cheap motorcaravan, then you can drive her
to the hospital etc and park her there.

Social Work should have access to a day centre where she can be bathed
occasionally.

Thanks again. I don't want to sound negative, but her house is the only
one in the road with no drive, and she refuses to contact social
services in case they want to inspect her house or our facilities here.

I'm going to try to secretly involve our mutual doctor at my appointment
next week to try to get him to send more forceful letters than the four
from him that she has ignored so far. That's why I'm trying to gather
information about possibilities in case he, as a third party, manages to
help by prising her out of her intransigence.
--
Bill

Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Curious as to why she was discharged into your care. Was this just a Good
Samaritan act or are you in some way legally responsible for her?

If you *hadnt* taken her in, presumably the hospital and social services
would have had to have been a bit more proactive about sorting out her home
conditions to enable her discharge or make other care arrangements.

Not criticising your actions in any way, just pointing out that you seem to
be in quite a pickle that shouldnt really have happened.

Having dealt with a cantankerous 98 yr whole lived alone in a totally
unsuitable house I can sympathise.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

In message
,
Tim+ writes
Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Curious as to why she was discharged into your care. Was this just a Good
Samaritan act or are you in some way legally responsible for her?

If you *hadnt* taken her in, presumably the hospital and social services
would have had to have been a bit more proactive about sorting out her home
conditions to enable her discharge or make other care arrangements.

Not criticising your actions in any way, just pointing out that you seem to
be in quite a pickle that shouldnt really have happened.

Having dealt with a cantankerous 98 yr whole lived alone in a totally
unsuitable house I can sympathise.

Tim

Thanks. My wife, who is extremely good hearted, is her nearest relative
not in a nursing home. I am going behind her back posting here or
talking to the doctor, but I will have to take some action soon. The
real trigger was my wife having a broken rib and foot following a fall
after being lectured at for a whole afternoon.

We think she was discharged from rehab because they were fed up with
her. They wished us luck as she was wheeled out. I suspect they picked
up how she was telling the doctors and nurses how wonderful they were
while telling us and the rest of the patients how none of the staff knew
anything, in her day they wouldn't have got a job serving in Woolworths
and so on.

I do think we were let down with the discharge, but she told them that
she was just coming to us for a couple of days while she sorted out her
walking and her house. That was over 4 months ago.
--
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told she
could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see sense and
try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back there
in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She is
"difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

Then get her a portable altar that she can grovel at.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

The ones used in caravans and 'mobile homes' don't do both.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would refuse
to start on any permanent extension.

On 11/08/2018 16:00, Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back
there in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She
is "difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would
refuse to start on any permanent extension.

How long do you expect this situation to continue?

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 11/08/2018 16:00, Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back there
in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She is
"difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would refuse
to start on any permanent extension.

How long do you expect this situation to continue?

Impossible to predict IMO given its been 4 months now.

On Saturday, 11 August 2018 18:01:32 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
... she refuses to contact social
services in case they want to inspect her house or our facilities here.

Well, *you* can contact social services if you believe she's at risk, and you can invite social services to inspect your facilities, and tell them you've had more than enough.

Social services may then decide that she lacks mental capacity and make decisions for her.

You can also make it clear to social services that you are going to start being more bloody demanding than they can imagine. You're (or your wife) aren't going to be doing the washing/toileting/feeding etc, *they* can send carers round.

Perhaps if you and your wife could plan a holiday (as soon as her foot and rib are better) so Old Lady will be left on her own in the house? Because you're not responsible for her.

Unfortunately old people can be devious, cunning and downright malevolent once marbles are lost.

Owain

wrote
Bill wrote

... she refuses to contact social services in case they
want to inspect her house or our facilities here.

Well, *you* can contact social services if you believe she's
at risk, and you can invite social services to inspect your
facilities, and tell them you've had more than enough.

Social services may then decide that she lacks
mental capacity and make decisions for her.

But in this situation they can not force her to do anything.

You can also make it clear to social services that you are going
to start being more bloody demanding than they can imagine.
You're (or your wife) aren't going to be doing the washing/
toileting/feeding etc, *they* can send carers round.

You can't force them to do that in that situation.

Perhaps if you and your wife could plan a holiday (as soon
as her foot and rib are better) so Old Lady will be left on her
own in the house? Because you're not responsible for her.

Only a ****ing arsehole would do anything like that.

And they'd get to wear the prosecution if she ends up dead.

Unfortunately old people can be devious, cunning
and downright malevolent once marbles are lost.

Yes, you clearly are just that.

This is his wife's relo, arsehole.

Oh dear, I was given a commode and supplied with a lacky every day to empty
it when I was supposedly stuck downstairs with my ankle in plaster. I used
my knees and my bum very effectively to get upstairs!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Bill" wrote in message
...
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told she
could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see sense and
try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back there
in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She is
"difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would refuse
to start on any permanent extension.
--
Bill

On 11/08/18 16:00, Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Her house is in a state** and has no toilet or washing facilities
downstairs, but she is convinced that she will be able to move back
there in September to be back with her memories of her late husband. She
is "difficult", very religious and believes in miracles.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of semi-permanent Portaloo type
installations. I was thinking vaguely of something that could be plonked
over the back door and be plumbed in to the water supply and drains to
provide, at the very least a shower and loo.

** Piled high with rubbish, which I could clear, but needs such a huge
amount of remedial work that I believe any competent builder would
refuse to start on any permanent extension.

Sorry to read about the situation. I guess, given the average age of the
readership of this group, we are all acutely aware that next time it
could be me.

I just wondered how likely she is to start walking up and down stairs
again, go out and do some shopping etc and if the answer is "not very"
then I wondered if it might be easier to add a kitchenette upstairs than
a bathroom downstairs and make the first floor her primary living area?

Is there a floor plan we could mull over? Maybe a similar house is up
for sale and there's a plan on an estate agent's website?

Hope it all works out,

Nick

On Saturday, 11 August 2018 18:01:32 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes

Thanks again. I don't want to sound negative, but her house is the only
one in the road with no drive, and she refuses to contact social
services in case they want to inspect her house or our facilities here.

she may be right on that point.

I'm going to try to secretly involve our mutual doctor at my appointment
next week to try to get him to send more forceful letters than the four
from him that she has ignored so far. That's why I'm trying to gather
information about possibilities in case he, as a third party, manages to
help by prising her out of her intransigence.

Showing her a solution is usually more effective. If she refuses to say what the problem is it doesn't help. Often people won't though.

A question: is it correct to say that only permanent accommodation needs to meet BR? If so one could make a shed into a temporary bathroom.


NT

On 11/08/18 21:33, John Angus wrote:
wrote
BillÂ* wrote

... she refuses to contact social services in case they want to
inspect her house or our facilities here.

Well, *you* can contact social services if you believe she's at risk,
and you can invite social services to inspect your facilities, and
tell them you've had more than enough.

Social services may then decide that she lacks mental capacity and
make decisions for her.

But in this situation they can not force her to do anything.
You can also make it clear to social services that you are going to
start being more bloody demanding than they can imagine. You're (or
your wife) aren't going to be doing the washing/
toileting/feeding etc, *they* can send carers round.

You can't force them to do that in that situation.
Perhaps if you and your wife could plan a holiday (as soon as her foot
and rib are better) so Old Lady will be left on her own in the house?
Because you're not responsible for her.

Only a ****ing arsehole would do anything like that.
And they'd get to wear the prosecution if she ends up dead.
Unfortunately old people can be devious, cunning and downright
malevolent once marbles are lost.

Yes, you clearly are just that.
This is his wife's relo, arsehole.
No, it isn't.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

On 11/08/18 23:15, Pamela wrote:
In my experience, these are often coping behaviours because the
person can be confused, frightened at the smallest thing, unable to
make decisions and can't work out a way forward.

Yes Pamela, in your case we understand all that.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 11/08/18 21:33, John Angus wrote:
wrote
Bill wrote

... she refuses to contact social services in case they want to inspect
her house or our facilities here.

Well, *you* can contact social services if you believe she's at risk,
and you can invite social services to inspect your facilities, and tell
them you've had more than enough.

Social services may then decide that she lacks mental capacity and make
decisions for her.

But in this situation they can not force her to do anything.
You can also make it clear to social services that you are going to
start being more bloody demanding than they can imagine. You're (or your
wife) aren't going to be doing the washing/
toileting/feeding etc, *they* can send carers round.

You can't force them to do that in that situation.
Perhaps if you and your wife could plan a holiday (as soon as her foot
and rib are better) so Old Lady will be left on her own in the house?
Because you're not responsible for her.

Only a ****ing arsehole would do anything like that.
And they'd get to wear the prosecution if she ends up dead.
Unfortunately old people can be devious, cunning and downright
malevolent once marbles are lost.

Yes, you clearly are just that.
This is his wife's relo, arsehole.
No, it isn't.

Yes it is.

My wife, who is extremely good hearted, is her nearest relative
not in a nursing home.

In message , at 16:00:03 on Sat,
11 Aug 2018, Bill remarked:

she is ... very religious

Have you tried the local church, who might have some short term
volunteer support available, but also "words of advice" from the pastor
that she might be more inclined to pay heed to.
--
Roland Perry

On Saturday, 11 August 2018 21:40:17 UTC+1, John Angus wrote:
Social services may then decide that she lacks
mental capacity and make decisions for her.
But in this situation they can not force her to do anything.

"Section 2 of the Mental Health Act allows people to be detained in hospital in order to have their mental condition assessed, in situations where the person themselves refuses. This can happen if health professionals think that they are behaving in a way that places their health at risk, or is a danger to themselves or others. Examples of when people with dementia may be detained under section 2 include serious cases of self-neglect and where the person is behaving in ways that challenge, such as being aggressive. A person can only be detained for a maximum of 28 days. They can of course be discharged sooner if appropriate.

"An approved mental health professional (AMHP) ***and the person's nearest relative*** both have the legal power to have someone admitted to hospital under section 2 of the Mental Health Act."

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-su...evant-dementia

And there are other sections, of course.

This is his wife's relo, arsehole.

And it is completely unreasonable to expect wife to look after said relo without proper facilities and support.

Owain

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 16:00:03 on Sat,
11 Aug 2018, Bill remarked:

she is ... very religious

Have you tried the local church, who might have some short term
volunteer support available, but also "words of advice" from the pastor
that she might be more inclined to pay heed to.

That avenue is closed, I'm afraid, owing to certain events in her fairly
recent past.
--
Bill

In message ,
writes
"Section 2 of the Mental Health Act allows people to be detained in
hospital in order to have their mental condition assessed, in
situations where the person themselves refuses. This can happen if
health professionals think that they are behaving in a way that places
their health at risk, or is a danger to themselves or others. Examples
of when people with dementia may be detained under section 2 include
serious cases of self-neglect and where the person is behaving in ways
that challenge, such as being aggressive. A person can only be detained
for a maximum of 28 days. They can of course be discharged sooner if
appropriate.

"An approved mental health professional (AMHP) ***and the person's
nearest relative*** both have the legal power to have someone admitted
to hospital under section 2 of the Mental Health Act."

Thanks, that's interesting. Unfortunately, the hospital, and us, have
cleaned up the personal self-neglect, which is the only thing I think
would directly apply.

I am still looking into the practicalities, such as the bathroom pods, a
small flat, a rehab home in the grounds of the hospital etc. for when
and if the doctor can help us to make her walk again.
--
Bill

On 11/08/2018 19:18, Bill wrote:
In message
,
Tim+ writes
Bill wrote:
We are trying to find options for someone who is presently living on the
couch in our main living room. On discharge from hospital she was told
she could walk by the physios, and we live in hope that she will see
sense and try.

Curious as to why she was discharged into your care. Was this just a Good
Samaritan act or are you in some way legally responsible for her?

If you *hadnt* taken her in, presumably the hospital and social services
would have had to have been a bit more proactive about sorting out her
home
conditions to enable her discharge or make other care arrangements.

Not criticising your actions in any way, just pointing out that you
seem to
be in quite a pickle that shouldnt really have happened.

Having dealt with a cantankerous 98 yr whole lived alone in a totally
unsuitable house I can sympathise.

Tim

Thanks. My wife, who is extremely good hearted, is her nearest relative
not in a nursing home. I am going behind her back posting here or
talking to the doctor, but I will have to take some action soon. The
real trigger was my wife having a broken rib and foot following a fall
after being lectured at for a whole afternoon.

We think she was discharged from rehab because they were fed up with
her. They wished us luck as she was wheeled out. I suspect they picked
up how she was telling the doctors and nurses how wonderful they were
while telling us and the rest of the patients how none of the staff knew
anything, in her day they wouldn't have got a job serving in Woolworths
and so on.

I do think we were let down with the discharge, but she told them that
she was just coming to us for a couple of days while she sorted out her
walking and her house. That was over 4 months ago.

Have you and your wife thought of going off on a 6-month cruise ?.

With luck she will have made an effort when forced to, as most capable
people will once they realise that the play-acting has no effect because
no-one is paying any attention.

You could ask the local Johovahs Witnesses to come round and look after
her. Either she'll bond with them, or leave, screaming for her own house.

On 12/08/2018 13:33, Bill wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 16:00:03 on Sat,
11 Aug 2018, Bill remarked:

she is ... very religious

Have you tried the local church, who might have some short term
volunteer support available, but also "words of advice" from the
pastor that she might be more inclined to pay heed to.

That avenue is closed, I'm afraid, owing to certain events in her fairly
recent past.

BBC DIY-disasters or BIg Build or whatever it is called these days ?.

C4 How Clean is Your House ? Would make a good program.

Plenty of scope to get a free cleanup and makeover.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 11 August 2018 21:40:17 UTC+1, John Angus wrote:
Social services may then decide that she lacks
mental capacity and make decisions1 for her.
But in this situation they can not force her to do anything.

"Section 2 of the Mental Health Act allows people to be detained in
hospital in order to have their mental condition assessed, in situations
where the person themselves refuses. This can happen if health
professionals think that they are behaving in a way that places their
health at risk, or is a danger to themselves or others.

But that does not include someone who doesnt want social
services involved because they may have something to say about
the state of her house, or the house she is currently staying in.

Examples of when people with dementia may be detained under section 2
include serious cases of self-neglect and where the person is behaving in
ways that challenge, such as being aggressive.

She doesnt have any of that, she is just doing what
makes sense in her current circumstances.

A person can only be detained for a maximum of 28 days. They can of course
be discharged sooner if appropriate.

"An approved mental health professional (AMHP) ***and the person's nearest
relative*** both have the legal power to have someone admitted to hospital
under section 2 of the Mental Health Act."

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-su...evant-dementia

And there are other sections, of course.

This is his wife's relo, arsehole.

And it is completely unreasonable to expect wife to look after said relo
without proper facilities and support.

Not in a legal sense. She has clearly done fine for 4 months.