Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

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If its an antique, one must cut the plug off and make sure you have a sheet
that goes with it about it not complying with modern safety standards if
actually powered up.

This sort of thing will mean a heck of a lot of old kit that people might
like to collect ends up as landfill, sadly.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

--

Please help keep the uk.telecom archive available on Google
https://productforums.google.com/for...ps/M6Cs9XdH-2o

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins

No I cannot see the plug. However, if it is for sale at $35 I assume
it is US 110V. I do not know whether sleeved pins are required.
Perhaps you could enlighten us.

- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the lampholder

Not sure what this means but are wires usually insulated more than
once?

- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

It is advertised as a 'vintage' machine so were it not authentic I
think there would be a bigger issue in terms of confirmity to
description.

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:40:06 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

Unsleeved plug & single insulated flex are PAT fails of course.

The drive belt I don't believe has enough force or momentum to cause injury, so not a problem. And not an electrical issue anyway.


If its an antique, one must cut the plug off and make sure you have a sheet
that goes with it about it not complying with modern safety standards if
actually powered up.

This sort of thing will mean a heck of a lot of old kit that people might
like to collect ends up as landfill, sadly.
Brian

not true of course


NT

In article ,
writes:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:40:06 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Well, that's not for the UK market, so unsurprisingly it doesn't
conform to UK/EU appliance safety rules.

Unsleeved plug & single insulated flex are PAT fails of course.

Unsleaved plug is not a PAT fail in itself. However, it is illegal
to sell such an appliance under the Plugs and Sockets (Safety)
Regulations (even at a fair or car boot sale). When performing a
PAT test, the owner should be advised of this. If the PAT test is
specifically to ensure the item is suitable for sale, then obviously
it isn't.

The drive belt I don't believe has enough force or momentum to cause injury, so not a problem. And not an electrical issue anyway.


If its an antique, one must cut the plug off and make sure you have a sheet
that goes with it about it not complying with modern safety standards if
actually powered up.

This sort of thing will mean a heck of a lot of old kit that people might
like to collect ends up as landfill, sadly.
Brian

not true of course

He's spot on. You can sell something as an antique which would be
dangerous to use, providing the buyer is made aware and it's supplied
in a condition where it can't be put back into service without the
use of tools. Supplying without a plug is a common way to meet this.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1, wrote:
Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

As some people may have misunderstood me, the picture illustrates the general arrangement of motor and drive belt, not the actual machine in question.

And it's displayed with a helpful notice saying "sewing machine - full working order", not an an antique for display purposes.

I'm certainly not volunteering to stick my finger anywhere near the motor.

Owain


--
Please help keep the uk.telecom archive available on Google
https://productforums.google.com/for...ps/M6Cs9XdH-2o

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 20:44:20 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr writes:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:40:06 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Well, that's not for the UK market, so unsurprisingly it doesn't
conform to UK/EU appliance safety rules.

Unsleeved plug & single insulated flex are PAT fails of course.

Unsleaved plug is not a PAT fail in itself. However, it is illegal
to sell such an appliance under the Plugs and Sockets (Safety)
Regulations (even at a fair or car boot sale). When performing a
PAT test, the owner should be advised of this. If the PAT test is
specifically to ensure the item is suitable for sale, then obviously
it isn't.

The drive belt I don't believe has enough force or momentum to cause injury, so not a problem. And not an electrical issue anyway.


If its an antique, one must cut the plug off and make sure you have a sheet
that goes with it about it not complying with modern safety standards if
actually powered up.

This sort of thing will mean a heck of a lot of old kit that people might
like to collect ends up as landfill, sadly.
Brian

not true of course

He's spot on.

Not at all, lots of antique electrical kit passes current PAT tests. And lots doesn't.


You can sell something as an antique which would be
dangerous to use, providing the buyer is made aware and it's supplied
in a condition where it can't be put back into service without the
use of tools. Supplying without a plug is a common way to meet this.

I don't believe that supply without a plug makes it legal. It directly contravenes the Act.


NT

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

Perhaps it was a venerable Singer 99K like we have?
It belonged to SWMBO's grandmother and spent 50 years in my late MiL's
cellar until I rescued.
It has twin flex to the plug and the foot pedal (the later has no
exposed metal) the flex is double insulated. The plug is an old MK
with no sleeving on the pins. I am in no hurry to replace that.

I suppose I should really fit a three core mains led and earth the
machine, perhaps I'll get round tuit.

Oh, top for anyone with a 99K.
I was using it on Monday, and left it plugged in for half an hour
while I went outside. When I returned the machine was operating at
about half speed, "stitching its own thread".

A little investigation showed that the interference filter capacitor
across the rheostat in the foot pedal was reading 50 ohms. I snipped
it out.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Yes it does end up as landfill, I spoke to the bloke at the tip, apparently
collectors regularly want to see what has come in in case its valuable.
Increasingly old radios and sewing machines are collectable by those with
the space and the inclination.
What next, Old lawn mowers perhaps?
Maybe its different out in the sticks.
If you mean the bit about illegal to sell. The info I gave came from
trading standards 2 years ago, when I wanted to sell a vintage granite table
lamp with single insulated flex.
Its not illegal to own it and to own it you had to have bought it, but all
provision has to be made to stop anyone else using it in the condition which
does not comply with current regulations.
I bet there are houses still running that have old rubber covered wiring in
them, and its only when it goes phut anyone bothers to worry.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:40:06 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for
sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

Owain

Unsleeved plug & single insulated flex are PAT fails of course.

The drive belt I don't believe has enough force or momentum to cause
injury, so not a problem. And not an electrical issue anyway.


If its an antique, one must cut the plug off and make sure you have a
sheet
that goes with it about it not complying with modern safety standards if
actually powered up.

This sort of thing will mean a heck of a lot of old kit that people might
like to collect ends up as landfill, sadly.
Brian

not true of course


NT

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1,
wrote:
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

I'm not sure you can expect them to make it safe for UK use as it's an
auction in america.

No its not. That auction was for another sewing machine that is roughly the
same model.

Please help keep the uk.telecom archive available on Google
https://productforums.google.com/for...ps/M6Cs9XdH-2o

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:43:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1,
wrote:
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

I'm not sure you can expect them to make it safe for UK use as it's an
auction in america.

No its not. That auction was for another sewing machine that is roughly the
same model.

What differnce does that make.
You should in most so called civerlised countries , when selling stuff it should be safe to use in the country that it is meant to be sold in, it doesn't have to be safe throught the world, well not until the EWU take over the world.

If you're stupid enough to by a 110V sewing machine and expect to just plug it into a uk socket then there's something wrong and potentially dangerous and it isn't the sewing machine.

On 02/08/2018 11:30, Max Demian wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:46, Brian Gaff wrote:

Â* I bet there are houses still running that have old rubber covered
wiring in
them, andÂ* its only when it goes phut anyone bothers to worry.

That's OK provided it had the original lead sheath as an earth connection.

??????

Rubber insulated cables were widely used long after lead sheathed cables
went out of fashion. And the lead sheathing might not always provide a
good earth due to creep under the clamps at the junctions leading to
poor contact.

--
Mike Clarke

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:43:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1,
wrote:
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for
sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

I'm not sure you can expect them to make it safe for UK use as it's an
auction in america.

No its not. That auction was for another sewing machine that is roughly
the
same model.

What differnce does that make.

It means that one doesnt have to comply with british legal requirements,
****wit.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 06:43:07 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

What differnce does that make.

It means that one doesn¢t have to comply with british legal requirements,
****wit.

Yeah, keep teaching him what the consequences are of feeding a trolling
cretin like you, Ozzietard! BG

--
Cursitor Doom about Rot Speed:
"The man is a conspicuous and unashamed ignoramus."
MID:

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:43:18 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:43:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1,
wrote:
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for
sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

I'm not sure you can expect them to make it safe for UK use as it's an
auction in america.

No its not. That auction was for another sewing machine that is roughly
the
same model.

What differnce does that make.

It means that one doesnt have to comply with british legal requirements,
****wit.

which is what I said, but what;s this with British requirements when we are in the EU, surely it should be OK in any EU country ?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:43:18 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:43:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:36:18 UTC+1,
wrote:
Hi All

Can you spot the errors made by putting this sewing machine out for
sale
in a charity shop?

- 13 amp plug with unsleeved L and N pins
- figure-8 single-insulated wire outside the machine casing to the
lampholder
- unguarded drive belt and pulleys between the motor and the
machine*

Not this exact machine, but this sort of arrangement, see photo 11
https://www.ebth.com/items/6178614-r...sewing-machine

I'm not sure you can expect them to make it safe for UK use as it's
an
auction in america.

No its not. That auction was for another sewing machine that is
roughly
the
same model.

What differnce does that make.

It means that one doesnt have to comply with british legal requirements,
****wit.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 19:59:36 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

all of your usual stinking senile troll **** flushed

....and much better air in here again!


--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp about senile cretin Rot Speed:
"Thick pillock!"
MID: