Any ideas on reasonable charges for PAT testing ?

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
Any ideas on reasonable charges for PAT testing ?

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item, which included minor
repairs (such as making something pass if it just needed the
plug refitting to do so), and included the cost of new plugs
on up to 10% of appliances tested (any more than that and the
plugs were charged for extra). It was a figure for bulk testing
(one-offs would be more) but it would not include the record
keeping, which is not relevant in this case.

I would say that it was unreasonable to insist that one
particular electrician had to carry out the work -- anyone
with C&G 2377/02 certificate should be able to do the work,
and it is specifically intended that this can be done by
non-electricians. If you are being forced to use one
electrician, be bloody minded and insist on seeing his
C&G 2377/02 certificate (Certificate of Competence for the
Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment) - claim
your insurance company requires a photocopy of the
certificate or some such;-). Most electricians do not have
this, and have no clue how to perform PAT testing. If he
starts the test by connecting the appliance to a PAT tester,
then he isn't competent to perform PAT testing -- that's
something you can easily spot.

If your friend sells many electrical goods, is competent
at wiring plugs, and knows the difference between millohms
and megohms (that's the bit which many electricians seem to
have a problem with), he should do the course and exam
himself (takes 2 days and evenings), and then buy a suitable
PAT tester.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 24 Nov 2004 15:39:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item,

So £20 / item would be excessive ?


If your friend sells many electrical goods,

No. 8-) They do have a fair few extension leads and lights though,
all of which needed testing.

he should do the course and exam
himself (takes 2 days and evenings), and then buy a suitable
PAT tester.

I'm thinking of doing this myself. A S/H PAT tester would seem to pay
for itself pretty quickly, just from cost-savings.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 24 Nov 2004 15:39:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item,

So £20 / item would be excessive ?


If your friend sells many electrical goods,

No. 8-) They do have a fair few extension leads and lights though,
all of which needed testing.

he should do the course and exam
himself (takes 2 days and evenings), and then buy a suitable
PAT tester.

I'm thinking of doing this myself. A S/H PAT tester would seem to pay
for itself pretty quickly, just from cost-savings.

--
Smert' spamionam

I've got a robin Smartpat 5000 for sale for £250 ono.

And £160 for eight items is a rip off, should be nearer £50 - £60, because
of the few items.


Steve Dawson

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On 24 Nov 2004 15:39:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item,

So £20 / item would be excessive ?

Possibly not for a one-off, but I'm out of date on such pricing.
One Art Deco shop I know sells all its original electrical items
as non-working and needing rewiring. I guess that's their way
around this.

If he is a charity, he might find an electrician who will PAT
test the appliances for free. I used to know one who did this
for a charity shop.

If your friend sells many electrical goods,

No. 8-) They do have a fair few extension leads and lights though,
all of which needed testing.

he should do the course and exam
himself (takes 2 days and evenings), and then buy a suitable
PAT tester.

I'm thinking of doing this myself. A S/H PAT tester would seem to pay
for itself pretty quickly, just from cost-savings.

You'll also need to get it calibrated, and to have appropriate
professional insurance cover, depending on what you're using it
for.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:58:36 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote:


"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Nov 2004 15:39:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

No. 8-) They do have a fair few extension leads and lights though,
all of which needed testing.

he should do the course and exam
himself (takes 2 days and evenings), and then buy a suitable
PAT tester.

I'm thinking of doing this myself. A S/H PAT tester would seem to pay
for itself pretty quickly, just from cost-savings.


I've got a robin Smartpat 5000 for sale for £250 ono.

And £160 for eight items is a rip off, should be nearer £50 - £60, because
of the few items.

Hi,

What does a PAT tester do, does it test the insulation between L/N and
E? What about double insulated appliances in that case?

If the OPs friend got the kit and qualifications for PAT testing he
could make the cost back doing PAT testing for other traders.

cheers,
Pete.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
Any ideas on reasonable charges for PAT testing ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item, which included minor
repairs (such as making something pass if it just needed the
plug refitting to do so), and included the cost of new plugs
on up to 10% of appliances tested (any more than that and the
plugs were charged for extra). It was a figure for bulk testing
(one-offs would be more) but it would not include the record
keeping, which is not relevant in this case.

What are the record keeping and traceability requirements? I assume these
would be needed if defending a claim.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

In article ,
"Malcolm Stewart" writes:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
Any ideas on reasonable charges for PAT testing ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item, which included minor
repairs (such as making something pass if it just needed the
plug refitting to do so), and included the cost of new plugs
on up to 10% of appliances tested (any more than that and the
plugs were charged for extra). It was a figure for bulk testing
(one-offs would be more) but it would not include the record
keeping, which is not relevant in this case.

What are the record keeping and traceability requirements? I assume these
would be needed if defending a claim.

They are part of a periodic inspection regime. Firstly, the existance
of them would be very useful to show an employer is taking seriously
their legal requirement to provide a safe workplace. An appliance might
still fail and injure/kill someone, but this goes some way towards
showing, at least in this respect, the employer was not being negligent.
Secondly, you can look at measurement trends. An appliance might still
be within spec, but if its insulation resistance has dropped by a
factor of 10 since the last measurement, this should ring alarm bells.
It would be reason to investigate further, and either fail the test
or require retest at a much shorter interval, or a service and repair.
Without records, you will have no indication of an impending problem.
Thirdly, the amount of wear/tear/damage/faults can be monitored, and
you could use this information to decide that less frequent testing is
required with a consequent reduction in costs, or that more testing is
required or a more rugged version of the appliance is required.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Is there a law that says all Portable Appliances need to be Tested? If so -
please educate me - Thanks Rich

Methinks it is just people scaremongering and making money!


More bull****t




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If it costs £20 to test a kettle every year why not just chuck it away and
buy a new one - £12.00 ASDA - easier - less fuss - and cheaper - are all you
people crazy?
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
Any ideas on reasonable charges for PAT testing ?

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 20/11/2004

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:55:30 GMT, "Rich Williams"
wrote:

If it costs £20 to test a kettle every year why not just chuck it away and
buy a new one - £12.00 ASDA

That's a £32 kettle. Even though it's new, it still needs a Magic
Sticker if it's to be used on site. It's even crazier when you apply
this £20 test to a £4 extension lead.

I'm also unimpressed by the quality of this overpriced testing. One
extension lead showed clear signs of past overheating near a socket -
I condemned that one myself on a visual inspection, as the contacts
weren't making a good low-impedance connection.

are all you people crazy?

Doesn't matter. It only matters if the market's manager and maybe
their insurers are affected. They get to make the rules.


--
Smert' spamionam

"Rich Williams" wrote in message
...
Is there a law that says all Portable Appliances need to be Tested? If
so -
please educate me - Thanks Rich

Methinks it is just people scaremongering and making money!


More bull****t




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 20/11/2004



No specific law, But the Health & Safety At Work Act, Electricity At Work
Act, and Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations would be used in a
prosecution to prove neglience in the event of an accident.

Stephen Dawson

Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 24 Nov 2004 15:39:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Friend of mine has a market stall. Market rules now require all
electricals to be tested by their visiting PAT testing chap. Prices
are per-item tested, and seem excessive IMHO. What would the team
think was reasonable ?

It's a long time since I looked at this, but the figure I
have at the back of my mind was £6/item,

So £20 / item would be excessive ?


Yes, if the tester is on site anyway and doing multiple items. When my
father moved into a residential home all his electrical items had to
be tested. I was pleasantly surprised at how cheap it was, something
like £3.50 per item plus VAT. There was no extra charge "call-out"
charge either.

Ring round a few electricians and get some quotes.

MBQ

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 07:49:56 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote:

No specific law, But the Health & Safety At Work Act, Electricity At Work
Act, and Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations would be used in a
prosecution to prove neglience in the event of an accident.

Another good question would be the huge number of extension leads
needed, and whether the provision of fixed electrics and the number of
sockets was basically inadequate. But of course they'd need to be
provided by the market, PAT testing charges hit the stallholder.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
"Rich Williams" writes:
If it costs £20 to test a kettle every year why not just chuck it away and
buy a new one - £12.00 ASDA - easier - less fuss - and cheaper - are all you
people crazy?

If you're talking about a regular domestic kettle used in a workplace,
I would suggest that should be tested every 3 months, at least until
your record keeping can show that a longer period would be satisfactory.
It's not really an appropriate appliance for the workplace, and it would
be much better to provide a wall-mounted kettle for such an environment
which is designed for a much higher workload, depending on the number of
people using it, and this would need far less frequent testing.

The buying new and replacing often strategy is a viable one in many
cases. Some items of IT equipment have a recommended test period of
every 4 years, and you could decide you will dispose of them at 4
years old anyway since they will be verging on obsolete rather than
test them. This is still something to record in your records though,
so you can justify why you are not PAT testing them, and it's not
just down to negligence.

--
Andrew Gabriel