I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.


What is the utility with the drive?



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote in
:

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is with the drive? (and why?) Please.


What is the utility with the drive?




It offers a menu for selecting files and types to back-up
https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/manual...cking-up-your-
files-to-seagate-storage/

On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:19:22 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

alan_m wrote in
:

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is with the drive? (and why?) Please.


What is the utility with the drive?

It offers a menu for selecting files and types to back-up
https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/manual...rd/backing-up-
your-
files-to-seagate-storage/

Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.



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Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.




In simple terms I guess I need to be able to resore windows if all fails -
and have a compact backup of data.

DerbyBorn wrote:

Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.




In simple terms I guess I need to be able to resore windows if all fails -
and have a compact backup of data.

I'd consider putting in a partition just big enough to make an image of
your current disk state and the other to to incremental backups as and
when you need to.
Recovery would be to install the image to a new internal disk and then
use the incremental backups to get to the state of the disk when the
last incremental back up was made.

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks


neither?
one external hdd doesn't make a backup.

it does make a copy.

The problem is that at some point there will be a failure while doing
the backup and you will lose both.

Maybe it will be a hardware fault or a virus that encrypts your disks or
a software fault in the OS or the backup software but it will happen
sooner or later.



Anyway having got the bad bit over with .. what software does it come
with and which version of windows do you have?

On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 15:00:33 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:


Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.




In simple terms I guess I need to be able to resore windows if all fails
-
and have a compact backup of data.

Then you need *both* by the sound of it.
I've been running Linux with no issues for years. I can image a full disk
(a complete, bootable operating system plus all the user's data files) in
about 13 minutes by using the free utilities written for Linux. First I
create one MASSIVE file of zeroes from all the unused space on the drive,
then I invoke "dd" to do a byte for byte copy of all the remaining ones
and zeroes on the drive whilst piping the output through a compression
utility to an external drive. Never known it fail, whereas yonks ago when
I used Windows and various 3rd party imaging software, I had no end of
problems. Never going back to Windows!



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On 08/07/2018 16:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks


neither?
one external hdd doesn't make a backup.

it does make a copy.

The problem is that at some point there will be a failure while doing
the backup and you will lose both.

Maybe it will be a hardware fault or a virus that encrypts your disks or
a software fault in the OS or the backup software but it will happen
sooner or later.



Anyway having got the bad bit over with .. what software does it come
with and which version of windows do you have?




Windows Backup is broken in the latest release of Win 10, and MS have no
intention to fix it. I think the only option is to use 3rd party backup
software.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:57:57 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

snip

I've been running Linux with no issues for years.

Ah, that explains loads.

I can image a full disk
(a complete, bootable operating system plus all the user's data files) in
about 13 minutes

Yup, a full 60GB disk?

by using the free utilities written for Linux.

That's handy (x2).

First I
create one MASSIVE file of zeroes from all the unused space on the drive,

That sounds user friendly and 'hands off'.

then I invoke "dd"

Do you have a special chant for that and do you also need a wand?

to do a byte for byte copy of all the remaining ones
and zeroes on the drive whilst piping the output through a compression
utility to an external drive.

Yup. All sounds very nooby friendly I'm sure.

Never known it fail,

Of course you haven't, why would you.

whereas yonks ago when
I used Windows and various 3rd party imaging software, I had no end of
problems.

Sounds like finger trouble to me. Probably not complicated enough for
you. Not enough man pages to read.

Never going back to Windows!

No, and that was exactly what the OP was asking about wasn't it ...

Now I do absolutely nothing and every day my WHS backs up every PC /
Laptop that is on and allows me to re-image them back (from bare iron)
using just a generic boot disk. No wand or man pages needed.

Cheers, T i m

I should also have mentioned that you can use free Linux utils to image
Windows operating systems, too (+ all the user apps and data) - with no
incompatibility issues at all. Utils like 'dd' and 'tar' don't care a FF
about tricky file system variations and heads, cylinders, volumes etc
that seem to confuse so many of the Windows 3rd party backup apps.
Personally I wouldn't use anything else, but you do need to be conversant
with entering instructions via a command line interface rather than some
fancy GUI. Still, it ain't no biggie.




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the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
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"dennis@home" wrote in
:

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks


neither?
one external hdd doesn't make a backup.

it does make a copy.

The problem is that at some point there will be a failure while doing
the backup and you will lose both.

Maybe it will be a hardware fault or a virus that encrypts your disks
or a software fault in the OS or the backup software but it will
happen sooner or later.



Anyway having got the bad bit over with .. what software does it come
with and which version of windows do you have?






windows 10 - latst update Windows 10, version 1803

https://www.seagate.com/manuals/soft...cking-up-your-
files-to-seagate-storage/

On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 17:49:53 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

I should also have mentioned that you can use free Linux utils to image
Windows operating systems, too (+ all the user apps and data)

No, really, wow!

- with no
incompatibility issues at all.

Only the incompatibility between ordinary (non Linux geek) users and
an OS that still relies heavily on the CLI and 'man pages'.

Utils like 'dd' and 'tar' don't care a FF
about tricky file system variations and heads, cylinders, volumes etc
that seem to confuse so many of the Windows 3rd party backup apps.

And most computers users wouldn't give a FF for learning all this
prehistoric stuff, compared with clicking on a Windows app that does
it all for them.

Personally I wouldn't use anything else,

We know you wouldn't. Why would you be open mined about that when you
aren't about anything else?

but you do need to be conversant
with entering instructions via a command line interface rather than some
fancy GUI.

Bingo. You got that bit right at least ... other than using GUI tools
aren't 'fancy' in 2018 you Linux dinosaur!

Still, it ain't no biggie.

And how well would your advice be likely to sit with the OP do you
think? (Not that you have thought. You are just stuck on TX).

Cheers, T i m

DerbyBorn wrote

I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup

The main downside with that one is that you can't keep
multiple different backups with some versions of Win
but you don’t say which Win you are running.

- or should I use the utility that is with the drive? (and why?)

The latest version of Acronis True Image has more capability,
particularly when using the backup to move the installed
Win to another system with different hardware and when
replacing the internal drive with a bigger one etc.

The live incremental backup is safer than with the
older Win backups and if its an old enough Win,
there isnt even a live incremental backup at all.

On the whole the Win backup is more limited,
but may be all you need.

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...


Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.




In simple terms I guess I need to be able to resore windows
if all fails - and have a compact backup of data.

Both will do that, but you still havent said which Win.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that
is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks


neither?
one external hdd doesn't make a backup.

it does make a copy.

The problem is that at some point there will be a failure while doing the
backup and you will lose both.

Not necessarily if you dont have just one backup image.

In spade with a cloud backup with what comes with the drive.

Maybe it will be a hardware fault or a virus that encrypts your disks or a
software fault in the OS or the backup software but it will happen sooner
or later.

Never happened to me and I have been doing it for more
than half a century now.

Anyway having got the bad bit over with .. what software does it come with
and which version of windows do you have?

"GB" wrote in message
news
On 08/07/2018 16:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that
is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks


neither?
one external hdd doesn't make a backup.

it does make a copy.

The problem is that at some point there will be a failure while doing the
backup and you will lose both.

Maybe it will be a hardware fault or a virus that encrypts your disks or
a software fault in the OS or the backup software but it will happen
sooner or later.



Anyway having got the bad bit over with .. what software does it come
with and which version of windows do you have?




Windows Backup is broken in the latest release of Win 10,

What do you claim is broken about it ?

and MS have no intention to fix it. I think the only option is to use 3rd
party backup software.

I use both, even 3rd party backup software can fail at times.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 05:28:16 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

FLUSH troll****

FOUR postings by you in this thread. And STILL no reply for you! LOL

Start thinking, senile cretin (if it doesn't hurt you too much)! LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

John Rumm wrote:

I would suggest buying a bit of software proper backups (full and
incremental). Also make an image of the system from time to time for
quick disaster recovery.

I use Macrium Reflect, which I have found to be better than all
others I have tried. The basic version is free, so you could give
it a try.

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Yes I'm on the look out for a back up drive I can attach either via the
network ports on the router, or on individual machines via either a net port
or usb. In both cases I want an image and an incremental change system so
its just press and go to bring up the machines concerned with the minimum
fuss to last update specs.. I need it to be easy to use for blind people. If
possible, since a full image restore will probably not be using windows, I'd
have no use of any feedback to do the job.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:19:22 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

alan_m wrote in
:

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is with the drive? (and why?) Please.


What is the utility with the drive?

It offers a menu for selecting files and types to back-up
https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/manual...rd/backing-up-
your-
files-to-seagate-storage/

Well, you need to differentiate between backing up and imaging for a
start. There's a BIG difference.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
I use Macrium Reflect, which I have found to be better than all others
I have tried. The basic version is free, so you could give it a try.

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

+1

I use it to take occasional, separate images of the whole machine.

For intermediate data backups, I use the free Microsoft SyncToy 2.1,
which is quite versatile and works simply and well for incremental
backups.
Its disadvantage, common to much backup software, is that it will not
backup open files.

This all depends on attempting to keep programs and data separated. For
example, I have a separate "Media" directory with subdirectories for
Video, Audio, Sheet Music etc, and each of these have their own
subdirectories.
Similarly, I have structures for text and office type files.

On most machines here I keep these data directories on a separate
partition or drive.

All of this is currently working here on Windows 10***, where
Microsoft's backup system appears to have been abandoned, but with W10
tomorrow is always an adventure.

*** I am currently looking at a friend's problem where SyncToy failed
while trying to backup a huge directory (approx 1.4TB) after the latest
W10 update. My tests here have failed to replicate any problem and his
subsequent test has been fine.
--
Bill

On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 13:38:55 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Seagate users get a (maybe not-quite-new) version of Acronis True Image for
free, AFAIK.

https://www.intowindows.com/download...tal-hdd-users/


Thomas Prufer

On 09/07/2018 05:02, Jeff wrote:

And that is where the Win backup fails very badly. But it is less clear
how many of that serf of user actually uses that even if they can
or if they actually need to if they dont write code or do fancy
spreadsheets or databases.

That would be why windows comes with file history and imaging backup.
You take an image to do a quick restore and let file history backup
files as and when they are changed. You can recover a file from many
versions ago if you want.

Its best used with a NAS drive IME.

I have the odd image on a usb drive and a file history on a Synology NAS.
The Synology NAS does its own daily backups to a second NAS in a remote
site and an encrypted sync to my cloud storage.

That way if there is ever ransom ware on the PC I can get the stuff back.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 05:02, Jeff wrote:

And that is where the Win backup fails very badly. But it is less clear
how many of that sort of user actually uses that even if they can
or if they actually need to if they dont write code or do fancy
spreadsheets or databases.

That would be why windows comes with file history and imaging backup.
You take an image to do a quick restore and let file history backup files
as and when they are changed. You can recover a file from many versions
ago if you want.

But all that isnt easy for that level of user who has to ask
which backup he should use, to do with the win backup,

Its best used with a NAS drive IME.

I have the odd image on a usb drive and a file history on a Synology NAS.
The Synology NAS does its own daily backups to a second NAS in a remote
site and an encrypted sync to my cloud storage.

That way if there is ever ransom ware on the PC I can get the stuff back.

What was being discussed there was being able to move back through
various levels of changes to a particular file to get back to the file which
had been changed and where it had not been noticed that that change
to that file had not been a useful change till much later. Not how to deal
with ransom ware.

On 09/07/2018 12:07, Jeff wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 05:02, Jeff wrote:

And that is where the Win backup fails very badly. But it is less clear
how many of that sort of user actually uses that even if they can
or if they actually need to if they dont write code or do fancy
spreadsheets or databases.

That would be why windows comes with file history and imaging backup.
You take an image to do a quick restore and let file history backup
files as and when they are changed. You can recover a file from many
versions ago if you want.

But all that isnt easy for that level of user who has to ask
whichÂ* backup he should use, to do with the win backup,

Its very easy, windows asks if you want to do it.
It reminds you if you don't tell it not to.


Its best used with a NAS drive IME.

I have the odd image on a usb drive and a file history on a Synology NAS.
The Synology NAS does its own daily backups to a second NAS in a
remote site and an encrypted sync to my cloud storage.

That way if there is ever ransom ware on the PC I can get the stuff back.

What was being discussed there was being able to move back through
various levels of changes to a particular file to get back to the file
which
had been changed and where it had not been noticed that that change
to that file had not been a useful change till much later. Not how to deal
with ransom ware.

And that differs in what way?
File history is designed for that purpose as is the NAS-NAS backup.
The extra cloud backup isn't suitable for that purpose as it will just
be over-written by the encrypted file created by the ransomware.

Anything kept on a disk attached to the PC or over a share is just as
vulnerable to a ransomware attack as the disk in the PC.

On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

Many thanks

How much data do you have to backup and what OS? I wouldn't trust either
of the options you suggested and certainly never use Windows backup!
(what is the point of an *unreliable* backup program?????)

There are plenty of backup options to choose from but to use them safely
you need to use a large master backup disk for a full disk image and
then 3 smaller ones for grandfather, father, son hardware redundancy on
the incremental backups - I tend to used 64GB coloured USB sticks for
the latter. Even non computer savvy people can cope with that.

Basically you should aim to be in a position that writing the next
backup never risks the medium that the most recent backup is sat on.

There was a thread I started in demon.service about free backup software
that would run on an ancient Vista PC for my luddite technophobic
friends which might point you towards something more suitable.

More modern software is available - I find Paragon Backup & Recovery OK
for my needs (but supported versions wouldn't run on Vista).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

I put Macrium on my PC - Big File! and created an Image

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 12:07, Jeff wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 05:02, Jeff wrote:

And that is where the Win backup fails very badly. But it is less clear
how many of that sort of user actually uses that even if they can
or if they actually need to if they dont write code or do fancy
spreadsheets or databases.

That would be why windows comes with file history and imaging backup.
You take an image to do a quick restore and let file history backup
files as and when they are changed. You can recover a file from many
versions ago if you want.

But all that isnt easy for that level of user who has to ask
which backup he should use, to do with the win backup,

Its very easy, windows asks if you want to do it.
It reminds you if you don't tell it not to.

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing it
doesnt.

Its best used with a NAS drive IME.

I have the odd image on a usb drive and a file history on a Synology
NAS.
The Synology NAS does its own daily backups to a second NAS in a remote
site and an encrypted sync to my cloud storage.

That way if there is ever ransom ware on the PC I can get the stuff
back.

What was being discussed there was being able to move back through
various levels of changes to a particular file to get back to the file
which
had been changed and where it had not been noticed that that change
to that file had not been a useful change till much later. Not how to
deal
with ransom ware.

And that differs in what way?

Win backup doesnt keep multiple generations of individual files.

File history is designed for that purpose as is the NAS-NAS backup.
The extra cloud backup isn't suitable for that purpose as it will just be
over-written by the encrypted file created by the ransomware.

Anything kept on a disk attached to the PC or over a share is just as
vulnerable to a ransomware attack as the disk in the PC.

Irrelevant to the multigenerational file backup being discussed there.

On 09/07/2018 20:50, Jeff wrote:


8

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing it
doesnt.

For heavens sake rod buy windows 10 so you actually know what it does.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 20:50, Jeff wrote:


8

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing it
doesnt.

For heavens sake rod buy windows 10 so you actually know what it does.

Got it thanks and wasnt stupid enough to pay for it.

On 09/07/2018 21:37, newshound wrote:
On 09/07/2018 01:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2018 14:38, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have just bought a Seagate 1TB back-up drive.

Well its a start - but you need more than one physical device for backup.

Should I use Windows to do the backup - or should I use the utility
that is
with the drive? (and why?) Please.

I would suggest buying a bit of software proper backups (full and
incremental). Also make an image of the system from time to time for
quick disaster recovery.

Having an image of a system is nice for a quick restore if you can do
it to the same platform (or at least one very similar) without needing
to manually reinstall the OS and backup software.

Something like the disk2vhd utility[1] will do a complete image backup
that you can mount as a virtual disk or even use to spin up a complete
VM can be quite good for that bit.

However its not a proper file level backup since it does not help in
cases where you need a generational backup - i.e. you realise that a
file you need was corrupted some months back, and you have backed it
up ten times since then. You need a way of rolling back to the last
good version, not just the previous backup.

You want to avoid having all your backups on the same physical device
(it might fail, and anyway you don't want to risk corrupting you only
backup when creating a new one).

Not having all your backups in one physical location is also good -
you need to protect them from fire/flood/theft etc. Also keep in mind
that an off site backup is a security vulnerability - so they should
be either encrypted or under lock and key.

Some cloud backup services can be good - if you have the bandwidth and
don't mind the cost.

Office 365 now gives you a "free" TB which would be plenty for many
people. I'm not a particular fan of it as a product, but it's convenient
to have if dealing with organisations that use modern versions of office.

That's free as in eight quid a year free ;-)

(which to be fair is not a bad price for the quantity)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/07/2018 23:34, Jeff wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 20:50, Jeff wrote:


8

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing
it doesnt.

For heavens sake rod buy windows 10 so you actually know what it does.

Got it thanks and wasnt stupid enough to pay for it.

So you know that it says windows backup is depreciated and supplied for
compatibility with old backups made with win 7 but still use it and
complain about it.

Are you a linux zealot that looks for all the old stuff so you have
something to complain about like TNP does? I used to think you were TNP
but I doubt if he knows how to use a VPN to fake his location now he is
suffering from his derangement.

Anyone with sense would use the proper one which does backups on the fly
and keeps multiple versions of files, you know the one, its on the
backup tab in settings, called, you guessed it, file history.

That and a set of recovery media is all that's needed to recover a win10
machine, but its easier to make an image and reload that for the
starting point. Guess what, you can make images under the file history tab.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 23:34, Jeff wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 20:50, Jeff wrote:


8

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing it
doesnt.

For heavens sake rod buy windows 10 so you actually know what it does.

Got it thanks and wasnt stupid enough to pay for it.

So you know that it says windows backup is depreciated and supplied for
compatibility with old backups made with win 7

Yep.

but still use it and complain about it.

Nope. I use a much better 3rd party backup and more than one too, thanks.

Are you a linux zealot

Nope.

that looks for all the old stuff so you have something to complain about
like TNP does?

Nope.

I used to think you were TNP

Yep, you always were that terminal a ****wit.

but I doubt if he knows how to use a VPN to fake his location now he is
suffering from his derangement.

Dont need to use a vpn for that.

Anyone with sense would use the proper one which does backups on the fly

I do.

and keeps multiple versions of files, you know the one, its on the backup
tab in settings, called, you guessed it, file history.

Anyone with even half a clue doesnt use any Win backup.

That and a set of recovery media is all that's needed to recover a win10
machine, but its easier to make an image and reload that for the starting
point. Guess what, you can make images under the file history tab.

Irrelevant to getting an older file, what was being discussed.

On Monday, 9 July 2018 23:34:58 UTC+1, Jeff wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2018 20:50, Jeff wrote:


8

Not with the multi generations of individual files we are discussing it
doesnt.

For heavens sake rod buy windows 10 so you actually know what it does.

Got it thanks and wasnt stupid enough to pay for it.

Does this mean Rod and Jeff are the same person, or do you think they both know this, or should we keep it a secret ;-)

Maybe we need a referedum on it.
Strange someone with so much money steals software and hangs out at garage sales driving for hours to get to them too.