My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

john west wrote:

My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size.

Could you not replace bolts and nuts together?

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/cistern+Connector/p51104

In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 20/06/2018 08:48, john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one.Â*Â* Thanks.

If you can't replace the bolts, you need to measure the diameter with a
micrometer and thread pitch with a thread gauge to identify the size
positively.

Once identified, Ebay.

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On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Messingers still there?

Also Mackays in Cambridge...

And a few others

I assume you mean M5 and M6, so we are looiking for around 5,5mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...dard_Whitworth

suggests that 7/16" Whitworth is a good place to start and te other
possibilitity is UNC. I doubt that UNF would be used on a bog seat!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard

gives #12 UNC as the size.


You could probably ID which it is (UNF/UN/Whitworth) by counting threads
per inch and looking at the thread profile. Whitworth is rounded and
UNF/C is flat topped.


Hmm. It looks like actualy BSF/UNC/M is more likely than whitworth

Suggest you look here.

https://www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk/...ass-wing-nuts/




--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Not sure Unified was very common except in cars and so on. Things like
that if UK made were usually either BSF or BSW before metric.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/06/2018 09:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Or the more course UNC.
Mike

The Natural Philosopher laid this down on his screen :
I assume you mean M5 and M6, so we are looiking for around 5,5mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...dard_Whitworth

suggests that 7/16" Whitworth is a good place to start and te other
possibilitity is UNC. I doubt that UNF would be used on a bog seat!

They could also be a BA size, which was common for brass.

Whit worth, BSP??
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"john west" wrote in message
news
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to the
pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut is
too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere
near
you.

Messingers still there?

Also Mackays in Cambridge...

And a few others

I assume you mean M5 and M6, so we are looiking for around 5,5mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...dard_Whitworth

suggests that 7/16" Whitworth is a good place to start and te other
possibilitity is UNC. I doubt that UNF would be used on a bog seat!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard

gives #12 UNC as the size.


You could probably ID which it is (UNF/UN/Whitworth) by counting threads
per inch and looking at the thread profile. Whitworth is rounded and UNF/C
is flat topped.


Hmm. It looks like actualy BSF/UNC/M is more likely than whitworth

Suggest you look here.

https://www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk/...ass-wing-nuts/


It won't be 7/16" Whit that's for sure - best part of 12 mm. 5/16" is far
more likely


Andrew

I'm sure \i've seen unc unf whit and ba around on adverts quite recently. I
think perhaps if it has to be the same, then the first job is to find
somebody with a set of thread gauges to see what you are looking at.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere
near
you.

Messingers still there?

Also Mackays in Cambridge...

And a few others

I assume you mean M5 and M6, so we are looiking for around 5,5mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...dard_Whitworth

suggests that 7/16" Whitworth is a good place to start and te other
possibilitity is UNC. I doubt that UNF would be used on a bog seat!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard

gives #12 UNC as the size.


You could probably ID which it is (UNF/UN/Whitworth) by counting threads
per inch and looking at the thread profile. Whitworth is rounded and UNF/C
is flat topped.


Hmm. It looks like actualy BSF/UNC/M is more likely than whitworth

Suggest you look here.

https://www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk/...ass-wing-nuts/




--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually
come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the
State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military
consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State
to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy
of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 08:48:33 UTC+1, john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

There is probably one in the large tin of odd nuts I have in the shed. I thought every DIYer had such a tin?

On 20/06/2018 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one.Â*Â* Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads.Â* But they are probably nowhere
near
you.

Messingers still there?


I bought my vice from them and possibly my drill stand.


--
Michael Chare

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:43:05 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all
sorts of scews & nut in all sorts of threads.Â* But they are probably
nowhere near you.

Messingers still there?


I bought my vice from them and possibly my drill stand.

Talking of long established companies, anyone been to Dockerills in
Brighton? I bought my first tools there, over 50 years ago. I was
recently visiting (my son had a music conference just down the road) and
I took the opportunity to buy some new Mole grips and a new pair of Maun
side cutters.

It's a family form, and they how now reached the fifth generation!


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:18:33 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:43:05 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all
sorts of scews & nut in all sorts of threads.Â* But they are probably
nowhere near you.

Messingers still there?


I bought my vice from them and possibly my drill stand.

Talking of long established companies, anyone been to Dockerills in
Brighton? I bought my first tools there, over 50 years ago. I was
recently visiting (my son had a music conference just down the road) and
I took the opportunity to buy some new Mole grips and a new pair of Maun
side cutters.

It's a family form, and they how now reached the fifth generation!

Or: "It's a family firm, and they have now reached the fifth generation"!

It's the lack of sleep (see other thread)

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 20/06/18 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:


Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Messingers still there?

They disappeared a dozen years ago.

One might also ask what became of that fine tool shop in Tottenham Court
Road - Buck and Ryan.

--

Jeff

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:
In article , john west
wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern. Being about forty years old the diameter of
the bolts are 'between' the common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not
go into 5M nut and a 6M nut is too big). Would anyone know what kind
of butterfly nut size and type of thread I should be looking for? Also
how best to try to get hold of a no longer common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all
sorts of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably
nowhere near you.

Messingers still there?

No, they vanished about 10 years ago, the shop traded under another name -
used to be a big firm in Tottenham Court Road (name I've forgotten), but
they ceased trading about 4 years ago.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 20/06/18 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:


Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all
sorts of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably
nowhere near you.

Messingers still there?

They disappeared a dozen years ago.

One might also ask what became of that fine tool shop in Tottenham Court
Road - Buck and Ryan.

Cathing up, Messingers sold out to Buck & Ryan but closed when tehn lease
ran out. The premises were taken over by Cath Kidson, B&R lost their
Tottenham Court shop due to rebuilding and moved to Southampton Row. They
also had a tiny franche in Selfridges. They vanished about 4 years ago,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 19:24:01 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 20/06/18 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:

Messingers still there?

They disappeared a dozen years ago.

One might also ask what became of that fine tool shop in Tottenham Court
Road - Buck and Ryan.

Last time I went there everything in TCR had turned into red light district, no electronics left. Shame.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 19:24:01 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 20/06/18 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/18 09:46, charles wrote:

Messingers still there?

They disappeared a dozen years ago.

One might also ask what became of that fine tool shop in Tottenham
Court Road - Buck and Ryan.

Last time I went there everything in TCR had turned into red light
district, no electronics left. Shame.

On Monday (2 days agho) there were a few computer shops and plenty of
coffee shops - Red lights not obvious - but it was during the afternoon.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 20/06/2018 16:25, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 08:48:33 UTC+1, john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

There is probably one in the large tin of odd nuts I have in the shed. I thought every DIYer had such a tin?

Indeed. Just one, because he needs two.

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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews & nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Not sure Unified was very common except in cars and so on. Things like
that if UK made were usually either BSF or BSW before metric.


BSA finally changed to UNF in 1969, and then promptly went bust ;(


-

Is Clerkenwell Screws EC1R 5BY still there?

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:48:34 +0100, john west
wrote:

My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Only ones in that size range are

1BA (5.3mm dia 0.9mm pitch)

or

7/32" BSF (5.55mm dia 28 tpi)

or

7/32 BSW (5.55mm dia 24 tpi)

or a #12 UNF or #12 UNC both at 5.48mm and either 28 tpi or 28 tpi respectively

As for the availability of any of them off the shelf in brass and particularly
as wing nuts it's slim to non existent.

--

There is a shop in Lincoln at 5 Csketgate that looks very
interesting, although I've never been inside but would
definately check it out if I wanted something special.

It's called Musgrave (Tools) & Co.Ltd and has been around
since 1942!

--

Terry

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Terry Casey wrote:

There is a shop in Lincoln at 5 Csketgate that looks very
interesting, although I've never been inside but would
definately check it out if I wanted something special.

It's called Musgrave (Tools) & Co.Ltd and has been around
since 1942!

I spy a lot of Silverline blue on the shelves ...

newshound Wrote in message:
On 20/06/2018 08:48, john west wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

If you can't replace the bolts, you need to measure the diameter with a
micrometer and thread pitch with a thread gauge to identify the size
positively.

Once identified, Ebay.


Once diameter & length measured, replace with entire new from
Toolsatan/screwfux
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 20/06/2018 10:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
In ,
john wrote:
My ancient Tyford close coupled ceramic toilet cistern is held down to
the pan by two butterfly nuts that screw on to Brass Bolts extending
underneath the cistern.
Being about forty years old the diameter of the bolts are 'between' the
common 5M and 6M size. (i.e. bolt will not go into 5M nut and a 6M nut
is too big).
Would anyone know what kind of butterfly nut size and type of thread I
should be looking for? Also how best to try to get hold of a no longer
common sized one. Thanks.

Probaby a UNF size. In Guildford is an excellent shop that sell all sorts
of scews& nut in all sorts of threads. But they are probably nowhere near
you.

Not sure Unified was very common except in cars and so on. Things like
that if UK made were usually either BSF or BSW before metric.


+1


--
Cheers,
Roger
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