Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

When scanning newsprint, or any thin double-sided medium, when laying
it on the bed, place a sheet of dark paper on top of it before closing
the lid. This will help prevent matter on the other side of the original
from showing through in the scans, having been reflected by the white
underside of the lid.

michael adams

....

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:20:45 +0100, Another John
wrote:

Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

My scanner software has an option called 'descreening' to mitigate
this effect and it does work. Maybe yours has a similar option.

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:20:45 +0100, Another John wrote:

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

Moire interference pattern dotty? An interaction between the dots
making up the paper image and the pixels of the scanned image.

I scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

That ought to work. You want the scanned image pixels to cover
several of the paper image dots to average out their value.

Many image manipulation programs have moire pattern removal features.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:20:45 +0100, Another John wrote:

Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

You need to run it through a descreening filter, it might even be an option in
the scan software (it is on an Epson)

For the best results the scanning resolution needs to be something oddball, from
what I recall possibly 166dpi to match (or be double) the original newsprint
resolution

--

"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

Use the newspaper web site.

I scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

"Hankat" wrote in message
...


"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

Use the newspaper web site.

I scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)


This is "moiré" - interference patterns between the spacing of the dots in
the halftone newspaper reproduction of the photo and the spacing of the
pixels in your scan.

Some image-manipulation software (eg PaintShopPro, and probably Photoshop
Elements) has the ability to filter the image to blur the dots slightly to
reduce the appearance of the pattern. There are even various presets for
different dot-pitches used by newspaper, magazine and book photographs.

I suggest you start with a high-res scan (even if it takes longer for the
filter to process it) - in my experience it produces a better end result,
even if you intend to reduce the number of pixels in the final image.

If the printer is not grey scale then your only option is the stipple effect
for greys after all.


Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

On 30/05/2018 09:20, Another John wrote:
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Newprint photos are already "halftoned" (i.e. converted into a blob
pattern where the size of the blob is related to the darkness of the
image at that point). Sometimes scanning through a sheet of slightly
textured acetate, with (as someone else suggested) a black backing page
behind the page) can have a de-screening effect.

The other option is to scan at a high resolution, to capture the
halftone pattern, and then reproduce that in black and white (i.e. not
greyscale) so that you in effect reprint the original halftone.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Hankat" wrote in message
...


"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

Use the newspaper web site.

I scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)


This is "moiré" - interference patterns between the spacing of the dots in
the halftone newspaper reproduction of the photo and the spacing of the
pixels in your scan.

Some image-manipulation software (eg PaintShopPro, and probably Photoshop
Elements) has the ability to filter the image to blur the dots slightly to
reduce the appearance of the pattern. There are even various presets for
different dot-pitches used by newspaper, magazine and book photographs.

I suggest you start with a high-res scan (even if it takes longer for the
filter to process it) - in my experience it produces a better end result,
even if you intend to reduce the number of pixels in the final image.

On 30/05/2018 09:20, Another John wrote:
Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

Anything useful he

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/forums/threads/reducing-appearance-of-microdots-on-scanned-newsprint-photograph.106888/

--
Oliver

On 30/05/2018 09:20, Another John wrote:
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John


I suggest you avoid scanning all together.

Copy the pictures from the web and paste them into an electronic
document then print that. Not only does this avoid scanning but you
will also be able to resize the images.

If you don't have any suitable software there are many free tools
available. A couple of suggestions below:

- Google Slides: a free online tool, see:
https://www.google.co.uk/slides/about/

- Libre office impress: (Libre Office is an open source product similar
to Microsoft Office. Impress is their version of Power Point. It is
quite a large download though, see:

https://www.libreoffice.org/

"Gareth" wrote in message
o.uk...
Copy the pictures from the web and paste them into an electronic document
then print that. Not only does this avoid scanning but you will also be
able to resize the images.

That assumes that the photos are available on a newspaper's web site. If the
printed photo is the only one you have, then you need a solution that
includes scanning. But I agree - *if you have the choice* a JPEG on a web
site will always give better results than a scan of a halftoned image on a
printed page.

Another John wrote:

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?

The originals will be printed with half-tone screen, I dare-say a
gaussian filter would help lose the dots at the expense of a bit of
blurring, might not be noticeable if you can afford to shrink the images?

How about taking a photo of it and then printing that

On 30/05/2018 09:42, michael adams wrote:
"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

When scanning newsprint, or any thin double-sided medium, when laying
it on the bed, place a sheet of dark paper on top of it before closing
the lid. This will help prevent matter on the other side of the original
from showing through in the scans, having been reflected by the white
underside of the lid.

Good advice although it may push the autoexposure to its limits it will
greatly reduce print through of the other side of the paper.

As far as halftone image scans from print media are concerned my formula
is to scan at 600 or 900dpi and then apply a carefully chosen Gaussian
blur to eliminate any Moire fringing (some programs like Photoshop have
a tool for this). Then apply unsharp masking to bring back the wanted
high frequency detail but without the fringes.

You can do this quite quickly once you get the hang of it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

OP here ...

LOTS of good advice already - thanks! I will be trying it al out in the
coming weeks (before my next quiz!) and will report back.

Couple of responses to the responses:

* I often do use photos from the web, and yes indeed it is much easier
to get good results, both in B/W and in colour. (We pass round the B/W
copies, and the colour copy (shockingly expensive compared to the
laser-printed BW) is circulated round the teams).

HOWEVER: harvesting, then manipulating, first in GraphicConverter and
then in (bloody) MS Word, to obtain a good consistent nicely formatted
copy usually takes twice as long as the cut-out / scan / print method.
The quiz is a labour of love, but love has its limits.

* I don't possess scanning software -- don't use it often enough to
warrant the cost.

* I have a Mac, and its own scanning software is called Image Capture,
which is very limited in its facilities.

* I think one of the problems I create for myself is that the pictures
come from different publications, and so the dpi is different for
different pics -- hence what's good for one pic is crap for another.

* But as I said: thanks for *all* the good advice, which I will be
trying out.

Best wishes all
John

On 30/05/2018 11:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
If the printer is not grey scale then your only option is the stipple effect
for greys after all.


Brian


and scan in greyscale too, not B&W.

My elderly Epson scanner, circa 1998 gives better results from
scanning newprint + newpaper photos when set to greyscale.

No need to go above 300 dpi, if that.

On 30/05/18 09:20, Another John wrote:
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge ...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans? I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I should scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

No, take pictures with your camera at as high res as possible


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 30/05/2018 12:05, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:42, michael adams wrote:
"Another John" wrote in message
...
Trivial question really, but this group is the fount of all knowledge
...

I do a quiz for the pub, every few weeks. I do a picture round, by
cutting out photos from newspapers/mags, and sticking them on one sheet;
then I scan it, then I print off the required number of copies (in black
and white, to save costs).

My scanner is a Canon MP270 inkjet printer/scanner (i.e. cheap end); my
B/W printer is a Samsung ML2010 laser (i.e. *cheap* end).

Is there any way I can avoid the "dotty" effects of newsprint scans?Â* I
scan at 600 dpi in the hope that this will give better quality .. but
I'm beginning to think that I shouldÂ* scan as low as possible?

(Yes yes -- I know I can try it, and will, but I'm wondering if there is
common knowledge that hasn't spread my way yet...)

Cheers
John

When scanning newsprint, or any thin double-sided medium, when laying
it on the bed, place a sheet of dark paper on top of it before closing
the lid. This will help prevent matter on the other side of the original
from showing through in the scans, having been reflected by the white
underside of the lid.

Good advice although it may push the autoexposure to its limits it will
greatly reduce print through of the other side of the paper.

As far as halftone image scans from print media are concerned my formula
is to scan at 600 or 900dpi and then apply a carefully chosen Gaussian
blur to eliminate any Moire fringing (some programs like Photoshop have
a tool for this). Then apply unsharp masking to bring back the wanted
high frequency detail but without the fringes.

You can do this quite quickly once you get the hang of it.

In the old days, when data logging was just beginning to become
accessible to those who hadn't thought about it properly, we used to say
"Aliasing is something which happens to other people".

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"Another John" wrote in message
...
OP here ...

LOTS of good advice already - thanks! I will be trying it al out in the
coming weeks (before my next quiz!) and will report back.

Couple of responses to the responses:

* I often do use photos from the web, and yes indeed it is much easier
to get good results, both in B/W and in colour. (We pass round the B/W
copies, and the colour copy (shockingly expensive compared to the
laser-printed BW) is circulated round the teams).

HOWEVER: harvesting, then manipulating, first in GraphicConverter and
then in (bloody) MS Word, to obtain a good consistent nicely formatted
copy usually takes twice as long as the cut-out / scan / print method.
The quiz is a labour of love, but love has its limits.

I do it with the garage sale ads in the local newspaper, putting
them in my facebook group that has just the garage sale ads.
The garage sale ads in the paper are now graphics, one for
each ad and its trivially easy to cut them from the web site,
trim the screen shot to get rid of the crap around it and
then paste it into the facebook group.

* I don't possess scanning software -- don't use it often enough to
warrant the cost.

* I have a Mac, and its own scanning software is called Image Capture,
which is very limited in its facilities.

But there are plenty of free ones with good capability.

* I think one of the problems I create for myself is that the pictures
come from different publications, and so the dpi is different for
different pics -- hence what's good for one pic is crap for another.

* But as I said: thanks for *all* the good advice, which I will be
trying out.

On 30/05/2018 11:56, wrote:
How about taking a photo of it and then printing that


If your photo has enough resolution to see the "screen" you will get the
Moire patterns. If it doesn't, you've applied Martin's Gaussian blur.
And unless you flatten the paper with a sheet of glass, you will
introduce distortion, probably poor lighting, and perhaps depth of field
issues. You might as well use a scanner.

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