It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, Rednadnerb wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


NT

On 14/03/18 18:28, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, Rednadnerb wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


No, it is not

It is because there is current getting to earth other than via the RCD,
whicjh is not a fire risk

It could be no more than too many RF filters across the mains, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because there is a neutral/earth short somewhere, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because a heater element is slightly leaky., which is not a
fire risk

In fact RCDs are really there to prevent electric shocks due to improper
earthing or erth leak faults. They are not there to pervenet fire riss
#
That is the MCBs' job along with appliance and plug fuses.

NT



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 18:42:41 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 18:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, Rednadnerb wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


No, it is not

It is because there is current getting to earth other than via the RCD,
whicjh is not a fire risk

It could be no more than too many RF filters across the mains, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because there is a neutral/earth short somewhere, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because a heater element is slightly leaky., which is not a
fire risk

In fact RCDs are really there to prevent electric shocks due to improper
earthing or erth leak faults. They are not there to pervenet fire riss
#
That is the MCBs' job along with appliance and plug fuses.

With respect he said it's mouse cable damage. We've no way to know if the shorting or leakage is L-E or N-E. Leakage can often icnrease oevr time, and as carbonisation occurs it can become a fire starter. An MCB won't do anything until i exceeds it's rated current by a fair margin. A fire can be started before that happens. Obviously that situation is a fire risk.


NT

On 14/03/18 18:51, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 18:42:41 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 18:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, Rednadnerb wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


No, it is not

It is because there is current getting to earth other than via the RCD,
whicjh is not a fire risk

It could be no more than too many RF filters across the mains, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because there is a neutral/earth short somewhere, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because a heater element is slightly leaky., which is not a
fire risk

In fact RCDs are really there to prevent electric shocks due to improper
earthing or erth leak faults. They are not there to pervenet fire riss
#
That is the MCBs' job along with appliance and plug fuses.

With respect he said it's mouse cable damage.

Where?


We've no way to know if the shorting or leakage is L-E or N-E.

Yes we have, because LE would trip the MCB and elecrocute the ****ing
mouse. BTDTGTTS


Leakage can often icnrease oevr time, and as carbonisation occurs it
can become a fire starter. An MCB won't do anything until i exceeds it's
rated current by a fair margin. A fire can be started before that
happens. Obviously that situation is a fire risk.

how does 'carbonisation' occur except by a partial short ?


Anyone can invent arbitrary improbable and never seen in the wild
scenarios in orer to avoid losing an argument



NT



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 19:03:07 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 18:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 18:42:41 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 18:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, Rednadnerb wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


No, it is not

It is because there is current getting to earth other than via the RCD,
whicjh is not a fire risk

It could be no more than too many RF filters across the mains, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because there is a neutral/earth short somewhere, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because a heater element is slightly leaky., which is not a
fire risk

In fact RCDs are really there to prevent electric shocks due to improper
earthing or erth leak faults. They are not there to pervenet fire riss
#
That is the MCBs' job along with appliance and plug fuses.

With respect he said it's mouse cable damage.

Where?

You could always read what you're replying to.

We've no way to know if the shorting or leakage is L-E or N-E.

Yes we have, because LE would trip the MCB and elecrocute the ****ing
mouse. BTDTGTTS

L-E only trips an MCB if a large amount of current flows. Tracking across a bit of plastic does not do that.

Leakage can often icnrease oevr time, and as carbonisation occurs it
can become a fire starter. An MCB won't do anything until i exceeds it's
rated current by a fair margin. A fire can be started before that
happens. Obviously that situation is a fire risk.

how does 'carbonisation' occur except by a partial short ?

I'm not making much sense of that question. I can tell you it occurs having seen it enough times though.

Anyone can invent arbitrary improbable and never seen in the wild
scenarios in orer to avoid losing an argument

I dare say they can. I've seen enough cases of tracking in plastic to know it's entirely real.

I get the feeling further discussion is a bit pointless.


NT

On 14/03/2018 18:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 18:28, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 17:48:30 UTC, RednadnerbÂ* wrote:

It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two
lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD
trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

If an RCD trips it's because stuff is shorting out. That's a fire risk.


No, it is not

It is because there is current getting to earth other than via the RCD,
whicjh is not a fire risk

It could be no more than too many RF filters across the mains, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because there is a neutral/earth short somewhere, which is
not a fire risk

It could be because a heater element is slightly leaky., which is not a
fire risk

In fact RCDs are really there to prevent electric shocks due to improper
earthing or erth leak faults. They are not there to pervenet fire riss

The 500mA ones are!


--
Adam

On 14/03/18 17:48, Rednadnerb wrote:
It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

Id guess an earth neutral short


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 14/03/2018 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/03/18 17:48, Rednadnerb wrote:
It's mice.

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two
lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD
trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

Id guess an earth neutral short


Agreed, and if under the floor then might well be down to mice (although
it could also be a stray nail)

In article ,
Rednadnerb wrote:
It's mice.

That a guess?

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two
lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Have you disconnected both sockets at either end of the suspect wiring so
it is totally isolated, then done tests on it?

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD trip
is worth taking up the floor boards for.

All to easy to think you've found the fault when you can't actually see it.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:06:47 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Rednadnerb wrote:
It's mice.

That a guess?

By a process of elimination I have narrowed the problem down to two
lengths of cable, both run under the hall floor.

Have you disconnected both sockets at either end of the suspect wiring
so it is totally isolated, then done tests on it?

Thank you all. I now just have to decide whether the occasional RCD
trip is worth taking up the floor boards for.

All to easy to think you've found the fault when you can't actually see
it.

See if any of the floorboard nails are live...



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Good point.
Yes it's a guess that it's mice.
No I haven't disconnected both ends and tested. I should do that.
I don't suppose it's something I can do with my multimeter?
I have a friend who has a Megger tester, I'll give him a call.