Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

On 12/03/2018 18:50, Scott wrote:
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

Remember that LEDs don't like the bases containing the electronics to
get too warm (this will shorten the life). The devil is in the detail.

In article ,
newshound writes:
On 12/03/2018 18:50, Scott wrote:
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

Remember that LEDs don't like the bases containing the electronics to
get too warm (this will shorten the life). The devil is in the detail.

To a first approximation, if it's rated 100W filament lamp, it will
be suitable for 100W equivalent CFL or LED, even though these actual
wattages are very different. However, it depands entirely on the
ventilatiom, and if you are happy for a shortened lamp life, which
is a comprise I'll often take.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Scott explained :
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

An LED is very susceptible to damage from its own heat build up, much
less of an issue is likely heat damage to the shade it is in. If the
shade allows good airflow and cooling of the LED, likely it will not be
a problem.

On Monday, 12 March 2018 20:06:40 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
newshound writes:
On 12/03/2018 18:50, Scott wrote:

Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs

yes

and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power),

no. LEDs are not heat tolerant.

or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

you jest

Remember that LEDs don't like the bases containing the electronics to
get too warm (this will shorten the life). The devil is in the detail.

To a first approximation, if it's rated 100W filament lamp, it will
be suitable for 100W equivalent CFL or LED, even though these actual
wattages are very different. However, it depands entirely on the
ventilatiom, and if you are happy for a shortened lamp life, which
is a comprise I'll often take.

Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed fitting, LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to overheating.


NT

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 21:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Scott explained :
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage, this
is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis that
LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to be an
issue liable to cause fading?

An LED is very susceptible to damage from its own heat build up, much
less of an issue is likely heat damage to the shade it is in. If the
shade allows good airflow and cooling of the LED, likely it will not be
a problem.

That nicely sums up the issue. The incandescent lamp wattage rating for
any given lamp shade or luminaire is based on how much heat it can safely
handle. Incandescent lamps run at much higher temperatures than any LED
can survive (150 to 200 deg C ).

The problem with LEDs is that the LEDs themselves and any fancy
electronic ballasts have a maximum junction temperature rating of 125 deg
C meaning the whole lamp must be kept a good 30 to 50 deg cooler to
establish the required temperature gradient between ambient and the solid
state device junction temperatures within (LEDS and switching transistors
and diodes) to dissipate the heat generated by these devices.

The older, less efficient 81 LPW LED lamps were limited to the
equivalent American based 806 Lm 60W rating and even these only met their
claimed 25,000 hours life rating in open reasonably ventilated shades/
luminaires.

Now, it is possible to upgrade those 810 Lumens lamps with the 100W
1500Lm LED equivalent 12W 125 LPW lamps in those very same luminaires
because they produce slightly less *waste* heat than the earlier 810
Lumens 10W LED lamps did, meaning they will run just as cool, if not
slightly cooler, despite consuming an extra 2 watts for almost double the
light output.

The main benefit of yet higher efficiency LED lamps is not the power
savings they offer but the fact that they can be fitted into almost every
standard luminaire or lamp shade with almost no regard to the issue of
overheating that afflicted the early low efficiency LED lamps.

Most of the energy savings to be made with lighting were achieved with
the CFL generation of energy efficient lamps. Upgrading a houseful of CFLs
to today's modern 125LPW LED lamps will offer a vanishingly small
reduction in the overall domestic electricity bill.

--
Johnny B Good

I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the shade. Don't you think shades
are the most pointless things every invented?
After all you go for more efficient lighting solutions yet try to block some
of the light with a shade.

I propose nice to look at sockets and lamps instead.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

One issue I've found a lot of lately, particularly when a BC holder has
previously had a filament lamp in it, is plastic break-up. I've had one low
energy lamp fall out and smash on the floor as the tiny little bit of metal
that is left when the plastic gives up on the bayonet pin holding notch just
cannot support a heavier low energy bulb, bends and it falls to the ground.
This seems particularly likely if the socket is on its side.
In the cases thus far these have been cfls, so a bit of a hazard and lots
of broken glass to clear up.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
In article ,
newshound writes:
On 12/03/2018 18:50, Scott wrote:
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

Remember that LEDs don't like the bases containing the electronics to
get too warm (this will shorten the life). The devil is in the detail.

To a first approximation, if it's rated 100W filament lamp, it will
be suitable for 100W equivalent CFL or LED, even though these actual
wattages are very different. However, it depands entirely on the
ventilatiom, and if you are happy for a shortened lamp life, which
is a comprise I'll often take.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 08:11:10 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the shade. Don't you think shades
are the most pointless things every invented?
After all you go for more efficient lighting solutions yet try to block some
of the light with a shade.

I propose nice to look at sockets and lamps instead.
Brian

Trouble there is that they aren't very nice to look at, and if you can look at them then they aren't bright enough to illuminate a large area very well.
I thought the idea of a shade was so that yuo couldn;t see a really bright bulb and that the light got diffucused by the shade which could also add a bit of colour.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, 12 March 2018 20:06:40 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
newshound writes:
On 12/03/2018 18:50, Scott wrote:

Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs

yes

and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power),

no. LEDs are not heat tolerant.

or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

you jest

Remember that LEDs don't like the bases containing the electronics to
get too warm (this will shorten the life). The devil is in the detail.

To a first approximation, if it's rated 100W filament lamp, it will
be suitable for 100W equivalent CFL or LED, even though these actual
wattages are very different. However, it depands entirely on the
ventilatiom, and if you are happy for a shortened lamp life, which
is a comprise I'll often take.

Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed fitting, LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to overheating.

Very helpful. Mind is in a globe (bathroom light) but it is quite a
big globe. I won't go overboard with output..

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 02:49:55 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 21:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Scott explained :
Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage, this
is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis that
LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to be an
issue liable to cause fading?

An LED is very susceptible to damage from its own heat build up, much
less of an issue is likely heat damage to the shade it is in. If the
shade allows good airflow and cooling of the LED, likely it will not be
a problem.

That nicely sums up the issue. The incandescent lamp wattage rating for
any given lamp shade or luminaire is based on how much heat it can safely
handle. Incandescent lamps run at much higher temperatures than any LED
can survive (150 to 200 deg C ).

The problem with LEDs is that the LEDs themselves and any fancy
electronic ballasts have a maximum junction temperature rating of 125 deg
C meaning the whole lamp must be kept a good 30 to 50 deg cooler to
establish the required temperature gradient between ambient and the solid
state device junction temperatures within (LEDS and switching transistors
and diodes) to dissipate the heat generated by these devices.

The older, less efficient 81 LPW LED lamps were limited to the
equivalent American based 806 Lm 60W rating and even these only met their
claimed 25,000 hours life rating in open reasonably ventilated shades/
luminaires.

Now, it is possible to upgrade those 810 Lumens lamps with the 100W
1500Lm LED equivalent 12W 125 LPW lamps in those very same luminaires
because they produce slightly less *waste* heat than the earlier 810
Lumens 10W LED lamps did, meaning they will run just as cool, if not
slightly cooler, despite consuming an extra 2 watts for almost double the
light output.

Very good points. I shall buy Philips and not one from the pound
shop.

The main benefit of yet higher efficiency LED lamps is not the power
savings they offer but the fact that they can be fitted into almost every
standard luminaire or lamp shade with almost no regard to the issue of
overheating that afflicted the early low efficiency LED lamps.

And instant start and arguably better colour rendition.

Most of the energy savings to be made with lighting were achieved with
the CFL generation of energy efficient lamps. Upgrading a houseful of CFLs
to today's modern 125LPW LED lamps will offer a vanishingly small
reduction in the overall domestic electricity bill.

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
Most of the energy savings to be made with lighting were achieved with
the CFL generation of energy efficient lamps. Upgrading a houseful of CFLs
to today's modern 125LPW LED lamps will offer a vanishingly small
reduction in the overall domestic electricity bill.

Oddly, visited a pal's flat where he'd done just that. And the LEDs he'd
used - probably the cheapest he could find - made it seem like being out
on a miserable cloudy winter's day. Very depressing.

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
...
Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed fitting,
LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to overheating.

I have a Philips Hue bulb in the light beside my bed: a bare fitting in a
table lamp, with no shade.

The light part of the bulb gets barely warm. The base gets fairly hot: it's
bareable for 10 seconds but after that it starts to become a bit too hot to
tolerate.

And that's with no shade around it, so best-case cooling. It's rated 10 W /
70 mA / 810 lumen. And that's for maximum brightness at a fairly neutral
white.

On 13/03/2018 12:00, NY wrote:
wrote in message
...
Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed
fitting, LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to
overheating.

I have a Philips Hue bulb in the light beside my bed: a bare fitting in
a table lamp, with no shade.

The light part of the bulb gets barely warm. The base gets fairly hot:
it's bareable for 10 seconds but after that it starts to become a bit
too hot to tolerate.

And that's with no shade around it, so best-case cooling.


Some shades help cooling by creating convection like chimneys do.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 08:11:10 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the shade. Don't you think
shades
are the most pointless things every invented?
After all you go for more efficient lighting solutions yet try to block
some
of the light with a shade.

I propose nice to look at sockets and lamps instead.
Brian

Trouble there is that they aren't very nice to look at, and if you can
look at them then they aren't bright enough to illuminate a large area
very well.
I thought the idea of a shade was so that yuo couldn;t see a really bright
bulb and that the light got diffucused by the shade which could also add a
bit of colour.

Exactly. The purpose of a (translucent) shade is to increase the effective
size of the illuminated area (and maybe to direct the light a bit more from
being omnidirectional) so it's more diffuse and less of a point source.
That's why in the days of tungsten bulbs, they started frosting the inside
of the glass so the whole bulb was a uniform brightness and you didn't get a
thin filament of brightness which tended to leave more of an after-image on
the retina if you happened to look at the bulb.

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:07:35 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 08:11:10 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the shade. Don't you think
shades
are the most pointless things every invented?
After all you go for more efficient lighting solutions yet try to block
some
of the light with a shade.

I propose nice to look at sockets and lamps instead.
Brian

Trouble there is that they aren't very nice to look at, and if you can
look at them then they aren't bright enough to illuminate a large area
very well.
I thought the idea of a shade was so that yuo couldn;t see a really bright
bulb and that the light got diffucused by the shade which could also add a
bit of colour.

Exactly. The purpose of a (translucent) shade is to increase the effective
size of the illuminated area (and maybe to direct the light a bit more from
being omnidirectional) so it's more diffuse and less of a point source.
That's why in the days of tungsten bulbs, they started frosting the inside
of the glass so the whole bulb was a uniform brightness and you didn't get a
thin filament of brightness which tended to leave more of an after-image on
the retina if you happened to look at the bulb.

And this is where LEDs are really bad in spotlights you end up with a bright spot on the wall, OK if that's what yuo want but most want even illumination throught the room.

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:06:23 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/03/2018 12:00, NY wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed
fitting, LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to
overheating.

I have a Philips Hue bulb in the light beside my bed: a bare fitting in
a table lamp, with no shade.

The light part of the bulb gets barely warm. The base gets fairly hot:
it's bareable for 10 seconds but after that it starts to become a bit
too hot to tolerate.

And that's with no shade around it, so best-case cooling.


Some shades help cooling by creating convection like chimneys do.

very few

On 13/03/18 10:27, Scott wrote:
Very helpful. Mind is in a globe (bathroom light) but it is quite a
big globe. I won't go overboard with output..

Short engineering dissertaion on heat dissipation.

What kills incandescent lamps is "hours on".

What kills lampshades is peak temperature. That why they have lamp
wattage ratings. 90% of an inmcandescent is heat so to a first
approximation a '60W lampshade' can take 60W of heat in its middle
without going brown or catching fire..

What kills LEDs is the product of life and of temperature. The hotter
they run the shorter they run.

However most LED *CHIPS* will stand to run at 100C or more.

What this means is that *NO* LED is going to scorch that lampshade. To
get 60W of heat you probably need 80W of LED, and that probably will
not fit in the lampshade. And would blind you!

I've just grabbed a candle LED that is about 40W equivalent, and its
about 40C. That is par for the envelope of a LED bulb.


Ergo the only critical factor is whether the lampshade will overheat the
LED.

Frankly if it's designed for an incandescent the answer is hell no!.

I've even put LEDS in enclosed cooker hoods and fully enclosed
luminaires and they have been FINE. For several YEARS.

As usual tabbypurr is pontificating from limited armchair theory and
zero real understanding.




--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:40:55 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 10:27, Scott wrote:

Very helpful. Mind is in a globe (bathroom light) but it is quite a
big globe. I won't go overboard with output..

Short engineering dissertaion on heat dissipation.

What kills incandescent lamps is "hours on".

What kills lampshades is peak temperature. That why they have lamp
wattage ratings. 90% of an inmcandescent is heat so to a first
approximation a '60W lampshade' can take 60W of heat in its middle
without going brown or catching fire..

What kills LEDs is the product of life and of temperature. The hotter
they run the shorter they run.

However most LED *CHIPS* will stand to run at 100C or more.

What this means is that *NO* LED is going to scorch that lampshade. To
get 60W of heat you probably need 80W of LED, and that probably will
not fit in the lampshade. And would blind you!

I've just grabbed a candle LED that is about 40W equivalent, and its
about 40C. That is par for the envelope of a LED bulb.


Ergo the only critical factor is whether the lampshade will overheat the
LED.

so far so good

Frankly if it's designed for an incandescent the answer is hell no!.

I've even put LEDS in enclosed cooker hoods and fully enclosed
luminaires and they have been FINE. For several YEARS.

yes, with limited use. You've got 15k or 25k hour life lamps, a year on 24/7 is only 8760rs. If you're willing to live with much reduced life, great, go for it.


As usual tabbypurr is pontificating from limited armchair theory and
zero real understanding.

whoosh.


NT

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:28:26 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:06:23 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/03/2018 12:00, NY wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed
fitting, LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to
overheating.

I have a Philips Hue bulb in the light beside my bed: a bare fitting in
a table lamp, with no shade.

The light part of the bulb gets barely warm. The base gets fairly hot:
it's bareable for 10 seconds but after that it starts to become a bit
too hot to tolerate.

And that's with no shade around it, so best-case cooling.


Some shades help cooling by creating convection like chimneys do.

very few

I look cool in shades :-D

On 13/03/18 13:04, wrote:
yes, with limited use. You've got 15k or 25k hour life lamps, a year
on 24/7 is only 8760rs. If you're willing to live with much reduced
life, great, go for it.

Golly. A mixture of actual SUMS and hand wavey phrases like 'a greatly
reduced life' showing the total incomprehsnion of reality by 'tabbypurr'

By the way, its 24x7. not 24/7


The LEDS are ALREADY in a totally enclosed container. The light bulb.

Anything outside of that short of sticking them inside a polystyrene
foam box is going to make the square root of sweet fanny adam's difference.



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 08:11:10 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the shade. Don't you think
shades are the most pointless things every invented? After all you go
for more efficient lighting solutions yet try to block some of the
light with a shade.

I propose nice to look at sockets and lamps instead. Brian

Trouble there is that they aren't very nice to look at, and if you can
look at them then they aren't bright enough to illuminate a large area
very well. I thought the idea of a shade was so that yuo couldn;t see a
really bright bulb and that the light got diffucused by the shade which
could also add a bit of colour.

the original reason for calling them "shades" was that they shaded certian
places from the light. Sometimes they act as diffusers, too.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 13/03/18 12:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 10:27, Scott wrote:
Very helpful.Â* Mind is in a globe (bathroom light) but it is quite a
big globe.Â* I won't go overboard with output..

Short engineering dissertaion on heat dissipation.

What kills incandescent lamps is "hours on".

What kills lampshades is peak temperature. That why they have lamp
wattage ratings. 90% of an inmcandescent is heat so to a first
approximation a '60W lampshade' can take 60W of heat in its middle
without going brown or catching fire..

What kills LEDs is the product of life and of temperature. The hotter
they run the shorter they run.

However most LED *CHIPS* will stand to run at 100C or more.

What this means is that *NO* LED is going to scorch that lampshade. To
get 60W ofÂ* heat you probably need 80W of LED, and that probably will
not fit in the lampshade. And would blind you!


And don't forget LED "filament" strings with no PSU - there you should
be limited only to the led operation temperature without any problems
with silicon or capacitors not liking the heat.

On an aside, the only issue I've had with "filament" LEDs is that
different batches can dim at different rates on an LED dimmer (ie full
on all looks the same, but right down at the "just glowing" stage, one
set can be literally "just" glowing and the other can be quite a bit
brighter.

But overall, they look pleasant and the simplicity seems to help - I
have had almost no failures compared to lots of failures of PSU based
lamps in a similar time frame (couple of years).

But to be fair, this problem seems to abate with larger lamps - my R63's
are going strong after 2-3 years with zero failures.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 12:00:12 -0000, NY wrote:

wrote in message
...
Any LED is fine if the fitting is open & well vented. In a closed fitting,
LEDs of same light output have a greatly reduced life due to overheating.

I have a Philips Hue bulb in the light beside my bed: a bare fitting in a
table lamp, with no shade.

The light part of the bulb gets barely warm. The base gets fairly hot: it's
bareable for 10 seconds but after that it starts to become a bit too hot to
tolerate.

And that's with no shade around it, so best-case cooling. It's rated 10 W /
70 mA / 810 lumen. And that's for maximum brightness at a fairly neutral
white.

That's a fairly inefficient lamp - or the glowing bit is very efficient and
the electronics aren't.
I noticed (couple of years ago) that Ikea's LED lamps, even base down, were
hot enough to burn within a few seconds. I've some here that get up to about
40 - 50 deg. eventually, even in a shade.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 13:28:19 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 13:04, tabbypurr wrote:

yes, with limited use. You've got 15k or 25k hour life lamps, a year
on 24/7 is only 8760rs. If you're willing to live with much reduced
life, great, go for it.

Golly. A mixture of actual SUMS and hand wavey phrases like 'a greatly
reduced life' showing the total incomprehsnion of reality by 'tabbypurr'

By the way, its 24x7. not 24/7


The LEDS are ALREADY in a totally enclosed container. The light bulb.

Anything outside of that short of sticking them inside a polystyrene
foam box is going to make the square root of sweet fanny adam's difference.

I see you've resorted to bullsht. Life's too short. Bye.

On 13/03/18 15:46, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 13:28:19 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 13:04, tabbypurr wrote:

yes, with limited use. You've got 15k or 25k hour life lamps, a year
on 24/7 is only 8760rs. If you're willing to live with much reduced
life, great, go for it.

Golly. A mixture of actual SUMS and hand wavey phrases like 'a greatly
reduced life' showing the total incomprehsnion of reality by 'tabbypurr'

By the way, its 24x7. not 24/7


The LEDS are ALREADY in a totally enclosed container. The light bulb.

Anything outside of that short of sticking them inside a polystyrene
foam box is going to make the square root of sweet fanny adam's difference.

I see you've resorted to bullsht. Life's too short. Bye.

No, but that's what you started with.



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 13/03/2018 12:19, whisky-dave wrote:


And this is where LEDs are really bad in spotlights you end up with a bright spot on the wall, OK if that's what yuo want but most want even illumination throught the room.


A spotlight is supposed to produce a bright spot.
If you don't want one then don't use a spotlight.

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 15:46:46 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 13:28:19 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 13:04, tabbypurr wrote:

yes, with limited use. You've got 15k or 25k hour life lamps, a year
on 24/7 is only 8760rs. If you're willing to live with much reduced
life, great, go for it.

Golly. A mixture of actual SUMS and hand wavey phrases like 'a greatly
reduced life' showing the total incomprehsnion of reality by 'tabbypurr'

By the way, its 24x7. not 24/7


The LEDS are ALREADY in a totally enclosed container. The light bulb.

Anything outside of that short of sticking them inside a polystyrene
foam box is going to make the square root of sweet fanny adam's difference.

I see you've resorted to bullsht. Life's too short. Bye.

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.

On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last anywhere near as long as stated.

On 14/03/18 11:07, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last anywhere near as long as stated.



That's not been my experience - the filament candles I have dim very
well. The only problem (as mentioned a few posts back) is that the cut
off point varies between batches (diode forward voltage variances I
guess) so you can either get one set cutting out whilst the other is
glowing or the other set brighter whilst the first is glowing.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 18:50:43 +0000, Scott
wrote:

Can I take it that where a lamp or shade states a maximum wattage,
this is for incandescent bulbs and any LED will be okay (on the basis
that LEDs use so much less power), or is the light intensity likely to
be an issue liable to cause fading?

As a development in this sage, I tried to buy three e14 to b22
converters to allow me a better choice of bulbs.

The order is shown as 'awaiting fulfillment', the phone number on the
website is invalid, HMRC say the VAT number is now deregistered and
TrustPilot reviews are nearly all one star - terrible. Has anyone
encountered Easybulb / Gigateq LImited in Manchester?

And yes, I know I should have done this research earlier - caveat
emptor.

On 14/03/18 11:07, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last anywhere near as long as stated.

They can easily be dimmed, and tehy wont flicker any more than a
fluorescent does.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 09:54:42 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.

The heat comes from the LED, it doesn't get transferred to the LED.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 11:07:31 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:

Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last anywhere near as long as stated.

more cobblers

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 09:54:42 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very
hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be
transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very
liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours
refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it
will last 15,000 hours.

The heat comes from the LED, it doesn't get transferred to the LED.

Ah, is the heat mainly from the LEDs rather than the PSU?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very
hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be
transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very
liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours
refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it
will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last
anywhere near as long as stated.

They can be dimmed very easily using their own built-in control logic (but
not too effectively by using an external triac dimmer) - all that is
required is a constant-frequency square wave with a variable mark:space
ratio. The problem is that they tend to be clocked at a relatively low
speed, so as you decrease the M:S ratio, the flicker on moving objects
becomes very noticeable.

I've seen some 7-segment LED displays on cookers which were clocked at main
frequency, and that was *horrible* if your eye panned over something moving
and you saw multiple copies of the time in your field of view. Likewise for
the "red man" on the switch box of a Pelican crossing as you are driving
past.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 14:32:48 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 09:54:42 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it will last 15,000 hours.

The heat comes from the LED, it doesn't get transferred to the LED.

NO it doesn't.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 14:47:42 UTC, NY wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 09:54:42 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very
hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be
transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very
liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours
refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it
will last 15,000 hours.

The heat comes from the LED, it doesn't get transferred to the LED.

Ah, is the heat mainly from the LEDs rather than the PSU?

You can tell where the heat comes from by touching the bulb mount.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:05:51 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 10:18:33 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/03/18 09:54, whisky-dave wrote:

But it is true the problem with LED lightbulbs is that they do get very
hot at the base as that's where the SMPS are but the heat can be
transfered to the actual LEDs which don;t like being hot.
The life of the lamps might well be UP TO 15K hours but they are very
liklely to fail long before that due to temperature as the 15K hours
refers to an LED used within the specs and even then it doesn't mean it
will last 15,000 hours.



Not all LED lamps have much in the way of PSUs

https://youtu.be/ReO9D1E8XqI?t=9m2s

Basically a bridge and 3 passives.

They canlt easily be dimmed, they are crap, they flicker and don't last
anywhere near as long as stated.

They can be dimmed very easily using their own built-in control logic

what built in control logic ?
How do they dim rising or falling or just increased resistance ?


(but
not too effectively by using an external triac dimmer) - all that is
required is a constant-frequency square wave with a variable mark:space
ratio.

The problem is that they tend to be clocked at a relatively low
speed, so as you decrease the M:S ratio, the flicker on moving objects
becomes very noticeable.

Yes I know, but of course others have said there's no flicker.


I've seen some 7-segment LED displays on cookers which were clocked at main
frequency, and that was *horrible* if your eye panned over something moving
and you saw multiple copies of the time in your field of view. Likewise for
the "red man" on the switch box of a Pelican crossing as you are driving
past.

We have bench PSUs here that do the same but that is because of multiplexing displays and nothing to do with mains frequency.