So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


purely on the basis of gut feel that if the level of salt in the water
cannot be tasted then I cant really credit that corrosion can be a risk.

Never had a water softener and hated showering in places where they have
been fitted so no practical experience to offer.
Can you get thermal stores with stainless steel heat exchangers. Might
open up a whole load of electrolytic problems? Mine is all copper and I
don't recall being offered a choice of materials when I had it custom made.

In message , Bob Minchin
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


purely on the basis of gut feel that if the level of salt in the water
cannot be tasted then I cant really credit that corrosion can be a risk.

I rather wonder if this is a plumber remembering some hue and cry about
aluminium heat exchangers. Viessmann actually encourage the use of
softened water for the initial pressurised circuit fill. (Stainless)

Never had a water softener and hated showering in places where they
have been fitted so no practical experience to offer.
Can you get thermal stores with stainless steel heat exchangers. Might
open up a whole load of electrolytic problems? Mine is all copper and I
don't recall being offered a choice of materials when I had it custom
made.

I live with a cleanliness fetishist!

--
Tim Lamb

I'd be more worried about the human who might consume it not the boiler.
Salt sugar etc, I do sometimes wonder if there is anything in the world
that does not do harm to something or somebody eventually.
I'd have thought the lime scale was far more of a problem than the salt,
myself.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages (poets
day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either the
side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
I'd be more worried about the human who might consume it not the boiler.
Salt sugar etc, I do sometimes wonder if there is anything in the world
that does not do harm to something or somebody eventually.
I'd have thought the lime scale was far more of a problem than the salt,
myself.

:-) I'll get technical advice from the manufacturers on Monday.

There might be a hint in the handbook which points to a requirement for
anti scale treatment for mains water exceeding 200ppm. Ours is 205! It
goes on to suggest using a polyphosphate in line system which they can
supply.

No mention of not using a conventional salt system.

--
Tim Lamb

On 09/03/2018 18:15, Tim Lamb wrote:

So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Seems unlikely to be a problem in the shot to medium term - and probably
not one long term I would guess. (the treated water will have a higher
sodium content, but it would be salty since the saline is flushed down
the drain)

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.

Which should give you some confidence here...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/03/2018 19:52, Bob Minchin wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


purely on the basis of gut feel that if the level of salt in the water
cannot be tasted then I cant really credit that corrosion can be a risk.

Never had a water softener and hated showering in places where they have
been fitted so no practical experience to offer.
Can you get thermal stores with stainless steel heat exchangers. Might
open up a whole load of electrolytic problems? Mine is all copper and I
don't recall being offered a choice of materials when I had it custom made.

Untastable levels of chloride can be sufficient to cause stress
corrosion cracking in certain stainless steel welds (but IIRC only above
about 50 deg C).

In message ,
newshound writes
On 09/03/2018 19:52, Bob Minchin wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


purely on the basis of gut feel that if the level of salt in the
water cannot be tasted then I cant really credit that corrosion can be
risk.
Never had a water softener and hated showering in places where they
have been fitted so no practical experience to offer.
Can you get thermal stores with stainless steel heat exchangers.
Might open up a whole load of electrolytic problems? Mine is all
copper and I don't recall being offered a choice of materials when I
had it custom made.

Untastable levels of chloride can be sufficient to cause stress
corrosion cracking in certain stainless steel welds (but IIRC only
above about 50 deg C).

I believe the thermal store coils are finned copper. The planned boiler
has stainless steel inox radial heat exchanger and the manufacturer
encourages using softened water in the closed circuit system.

I'll see what Gledhill technical have to say tomorrow and report back:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message ,
newshound writes
On 09/03/2018 19:52, Bob Minchin wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
So the gas fitter came to call....

and expressed concern about using an ion exchange (salt) water softener
with a thermal store. Corrosion of heat extract coil due to salt content
in treated mains supply.

Google hasn't found much apart from now discounted worries about boiler
heat exchangers.

Gledhill technical advice dept. were only accepting voice messages
(poets day?)

Anyone come across this. In 25 years it has failed to penetrate either
the side walls or the coil in our hot tank.


purely on the basis of gut feel that if the level of salt in the
water cannot be tasted then I cant really credit that corrosion can
be risk.
Never had a water softener and hated showering in places where they
have been fitted so no practical experience to offer.
Can you get thermal stores with stainless steel heat exchangers.
Might open up a whole load of electrolytic problems? Mine is all
copper and I don't recall being offered a choice of materials when I
had it custom made.

Untastable levels of chloride can be sufficient to cause stress
corrosion cracking in certain stainless steel welds (but IIRC only
above about 50 deg C).

I believe the thermal store coils are finned copper. The planned boiler
has stainless steel inox radial heat exchanger and the manufacturer
encourages using softened water in the closed circuit system.

I'll see what Gledhill technical have to say tomorrow and report back:-)

Gledhill technical seemed happy for an ion exchange softener to be used
for DHW. They pushed their polyphosphate offering but did not reject the
alternative.

I have since asked a similar question of my softener supplier who was
confident this is a red herring.


--
Tim Lamb