http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Or maybe we can get equally good workers from outside the EU ... but I
wonder why we haven't been doing ... ?

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty. By the same token,
will be better able to keep the dross out.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Eastern European workers have lower pay expectations. Increase the pay
to UK levels and UK workers will apply. Yes, veg will be slightly more
expensive. So what? It's stupidly cheap now.

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners, as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us. The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.
We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems. We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.

Bill

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:59:16 AM UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty. By the same token,
will be better able to keep the dross out.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Eastern European workers have lower pay expectations. Increase the pay
to UK levels and UK workers will apply. Yes, veg will be slightly more
expensive. So what? It's stupidly cheap now.

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners, as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us. The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.
We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems. We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.

Bill

When I was at school I picked potatoes. The first day was hard, but you got used to it. The BBC clip was a pointless exercise, perhaps if they had done it for a week they would have got into the swing of it.

On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 23:11:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Or maybe we can get equally good workers from outside the EU ... but I
wonder why we haven't been doing ... ?

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(


OMG THEY'D BE DARKER FOREIGNERS TOO!!!

On the plus point I work with Polish and Indian people.

Damn good to work with, bring em on!

AB

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:48:33 -0800 (PST), misterroy
wrote:


less immigration of deadlegs.

Bill

When I was at school I picked potatoes. The first day was hard, but you got used to it. The BBC clip was a pointless exercise, perhaps if they had done it for a week they would have got into the swing of it.

Speak for yourself!

I didn't last a week.

Over forty years ago and the backache and cold is still vivid :-(

AB

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Don't believe that the TV company did it research beforehand to pick a
team of UK lazy *******s in the first place? They would have a TV
program if the results were not predicted beforehand!

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 04/02/2018 22:11, dennis@home wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall



Hardly a surprise.

We have a serious problem with people who expect to be carried by others
and/or paid more than their skills etc justify.

If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc, stamped
down on those who have one identity for benefits and another for a 'side
line', we could reduce welfare spending and force our lazy scroungers to
do the jobs migrants do. The latter would reduce the attraction of the
UK to migrants.



--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

I'd have thought, by now this kind of thing should be automated. Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Or maybe we can get equally good workers from outside the EU ... but I
wonder why we haven't been doing ... ?

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
I'd have thought, by now this kind of thing should be automated. Brian

I once met a man set on developing a machine for picking
Blackcurrants:-)

Much horticultural research goes into developing hybrid varieties with
very narrow ripening periods. Thus aiding mechanised harvesting to the
annoyance of vegetable gardeners who want extended ripening so they can
enjoy a crop over a longer period.

The clip I saw on the BBC site looked a bit biased as none of the
volunteers appeared used to hard physical labour and afterwards very
willing to leave the job to migrant workers.

I stopped selling market garden produce in 1994 and am now way out of
touch but, there was never much margin to pay harvesting labour.

I'd be very surprised if anyone harvests commercial potatoes by hand.
Mark one eyeball for sorting green and damaged out maybe!

This country has moved on from the days when teams of navvies dug canals
and built railways by hand.


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners, as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us. The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.
We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems. We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.

Other countries in the EU have strict legislation to prevent immigrants
'working the system'.

If this country is incapable of enforcing its existing laws on 'deadlegs'
now, what makes you think leaving the EU will make it any different?

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:59:13 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty.

Why don't we do that now then? The split of people coming here because
of the free movement of people and workers within the EU and those
already coming into this country via the std immigration / customers
controls are about the same (180k/a I think).

By the same token,
will be better able to keep the dross out.

And other countries in the EU will be able to keep our dross out I'm
guessing?

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Eastern European workers have lower pay expectations.

They have the same pay expectations as native workers and that's set
by the minimum wage.

Increase the pay
to UK levels and UK workers will apply.

And you really believe 1) that will ever happen and 2) the employers
will be able to afford it?

Yes, veg will be slightly more
expensive.

Great.

So what? It's stupidly cheap now.

Then how come poorer people can't afford it now and end up with less
nutritious ready meals? Have you ever heard of food banks Bill and do
you realise how many people are currently using them every day?

What will actually happen ITRW is we will buy *all* our produce from
abroad, rather than just much of it.


Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners,

Bwhahahaha. The two leavers that both my wife and daughter voted
against were both racists and disliked *all* foreigners.

as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us.

And as long as those of us are beneficial to them I'm guessing? We
could see over a million burdensome pensioners back from Spain when we
leave the EU?

The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.

Assuming they still want to come you mean, under the circumstances? If
EU workers are already leaving simply because they don't feel wanted
here, do you think people will start coming back after we have left
(when it's more difficult and expensive to do so and with fewer rights
and guarantees)?

We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems.

And all of those are coming in legally or from the EU are they? What
percentage of 'foreigners' are doing that compared with natives? Do
you have any stats on that so we can see the problem in perspective
(I'm guessing you do or you wouldn't state such a thing). Or doesn't
it matter if they are lifelong scroungers as long as their DNA is X%
'British? (Given the average Brit has a DNA that is 60% 'European')?

We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.

OK, I can see how that is a good idea in an ideal world but how would
you deal with those who are here (legally) now?

What improvement do you think it will make to the status quo?

Cheers, T i m

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall


because bending down all day doing a repetitive job is tough work

why is that strange?

tim

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
When I was at school I picked potatoes. The first day was hard, but you got used to it. The BBC clip was a pointless exercise, perhaps if they had done it for a week they would have got into the swing of it.

Speak for yourself!

I didn't last a week.

In the part of Scotland where I was born and educated, country areas had
different school summer holidays to cover 'tattie houwking' which was done
by school children, but paid for. The majority who did this seemed to
manage OK.

But in those days they didn't spend every hour of the day staring at a
phone and being taken everywhere by car, so likely started off physically
rather fitter.

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Or maybe we can get equally good workers from outside the EU ... but I
wonder why we haven't been doing ... ?

because when we got swamped by an unlimited number of EU citizens seeking
work we scrapped all the rules allowing low skilled ROW workers to fill
"shortage" jobs.

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

It has nothing to do with them being foreign

tim

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:48:33 -0800 (PST), misterroy
wrote:

snip

When I was at school I picked potatoes.

Was this a class? ;-)

The first day was hard, but you got used to it.

Yup, the human body is pretty good / quick to adapt to such things but
the human mind / spirit less so.

It's the same logic as for people on benefits where if they did work
they would end up *much* worse off, even to the extent of having to
pay for dental treatment etc.

The BBC clip was a pointless exercise, perhaps if they had done it for a week they would have got into the swing of it.

I'd have to agree that they didn't look like what you would typically
consider to be 'land workers' and so are unlikely to have the right
disposition for that sort of work.

So, even if they were given the choice of going without food or doing
that sort of work full time, I'm sure some of them would simply starve
to death. Some people really don't have any drive. Most of the EU
migrant workers do (as most people I have spoken to seem to agree).

I also saw a program where they were talking of putting long term
benefit people in the Army and the Army was saying 'why should they be
their problem'.

It would be the same thing with getting prison inmates to do such
work, like the days of sewing up mailbags or printing number plates
(or breaking rocks before that).

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:59:13 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty.

Why don't we do that now then? The split of people coming here because
of the free movement of people and workers within the EU and those
already coming into this country via the std immigration / customers
controls are about the same (180k/a I think).

the difference is that 80% of the EU immigrants a
"unemployed seeking work" (with an entitlement to in-work benefits if they
find one)

and 80% of the ROW immigrants a
Highly skilled worker with a guaranteed job to go to
or
family member who will be financially supported by their family already here
(with no entitlement to any benefits.)

in both cases having had to jump through multiple hoops to qualify for that
status.

tim

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

The only damage will be to the landowners wallets. Brexiteers will find
higher wages.

Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Or a simple tax and benefit system that make short time working easier
rather than having to re-fill wads of claim forms. The last Housing
Benefit form I had to complete was 38 pages long. I'm literate, much of
the dole community is not.

Or maybe we can get equally good workers from outside the EU ... but I
wonder why we haven't been doing ... ?

Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Correct, why should any cause to suppress the natural labour market be
allowed?

On 05/02/2018 10:57, T i m wrote:
Some people really don't have any drive. Most of the EU
migrant workers do (as most people I have spoken to seem to agree).

It's self-selecting. It takes drive just to migrate, let alone to do the
work.

On 05/02/2018 09:42, Brian Reay wrote:
On 04/02/2018 22:11, dennis@home wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall




Hardly a surprise.

We have a serious problem with people who expect to be carried by
others and/or paid more than their skills etc justify.

Do you work as much as those lazy people who are carried by those who do?

If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc,

I agree, all state benefits should stop.

stamped down on those who have one identity for benefits and another
for a 'side line', we could reduce welfare spending and force our
lazy scroungers to do the jobs migrants do. The latter would reduce
the attraction of the UK to migrants.

A national wage would be the obvious solution, to those who have lived
here for say 10 years. Then tax without any tax allowance.

On 05/02/2018 10:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
When I was at school I picked potatoes. The first day was hard, but you got used to it. The BBC clip was a pointless exercise, perhaps if they had done it for a week they would have got into the swing of it.

Speak for yourself!

I didn't last a week.

In the part of Scotland where I was born and educated, country areas had
different school summer holidays to cover 'tattie houwking' which was done
by school children, but paid for. The majority who did this seemed to
manage OK.

But in those days they didn't spend every hour of the day staring at a
phone and being taken everywhere by car, so likely started off physically
rather fitter.

Many children would take up the offer. The idea of making say £5 per
hour, even at a piece rate would attract many.

The issues would be legal ones, first children can only work 16 hours a
week, and then only with permission of the head teacher. The other would
be child protection issues.

On 05/02/2018 11:15, GB wrote:
On 05/02/2018 10:57, T i m wrote:
Â*Some people really don't have any drive. Most of the EU
migrant workers do (as most people I have spoken to seem to agree).

It's self-selecting. It takes drive just to migrate, let alone to do the
work.

The indigenous with drive do other full time work.

If cabbage picking paid more then it might attract those with drive.

A piece rate tends to induce drive too!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners, as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us. The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.
We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems. We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.

Other countries in the EU have strict legislation to prevent immigrants
'working the system'.

using fitted into laws preventing locals "working the system"

it makes a big difference

tim

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 23:11:10 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

We did better on the 1800s with 10 year-olds down mines.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...taff-bone.html

Perhaps this is why British workers are reluctant to work in adverse conditions here in the UK our ancestors faught for better rightds for all workers now it seems we can circumvent such effots by employing foreigners.

I think we should be inporving working conditions in the UK not reducing them.


Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in,

that's already happened we are now on 3rd level, have you not noticed.

On 05/02/2018 11:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 11:35:07 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 05/02/2018 10:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Many children would take up the offer. The idea of making say £5 per
hour,
even at a piece rate would attract many.

What consumers will pay the resultant end price ?

I assuming you are referring to the hourly rate?

Are you suggesting that £5 per hour is more than immigrants get paid?

Wouldn't that be illegal?

On Monday, 5 February 2018 02:59:16 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall

I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty. By the same token,
will be better able to keep the dross out.

Yes I agree two friends of mine used to regually go over to Holland to do rosebudding one of the hardest of the types of picking jobs, few from Holland were prepared to do it, they did it for years. British workers were concidered some of the best.


Or maybe they will stiffen up the benefits system and force lazy UK
lifetime scroungers onto the owners and managers of farms, factories
and the NHS?

Eastern European workers have lower pay expectations. Increase the pay
to UK levels and UK workers will apply. Yes, veg will be slightly more
expensive. So what? It's stupidly cheap now.

Yes big business wanting slave labour I';m suprired we don't go back to the days of slavery it was certainly better for the country and empoyers, perhaps T i m can explain why slavery came to an end. It does seem that some want to bring this sort of workforce back.



Oh hang on, that wouldn't be acceptable to the Brexiteers ... they are
still 'foreigners'. ;-(

Brexiteers are all in favour of foreigners, as long as they are the ones
that bring benefits to us. The skilled, intelligent, hard working ones.
We aren't though in favour of foreigners that want to exploit our social
security and health systems. We want more immigration of good people and
less immigration of deadlegs.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/65...llion-taxpayer

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I once met a man set on developing a machine for picking
Blackcurrants:-)

Much horticultural research goes into developing hybrid varieties with
very narrow ripening periods. Thus aiding mechanised harvesting to the
annoyance of vegetable gardeners who want extended ripening so they can
enjoy a crop over a longer period.

Did he succeed with his blackcurrant machine?

My first holiday job was picking blackcurrants that went to Ribena.
Workers were, in those days, mainly local farm worker's wives. After a
week, I was taken aside by the farm owner and shown what I was costing
him and what the produce sold for. I was moved to the farm's sales area.


--
Bill

On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 04:18:16 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

Yes big business wanting slave labour I';m suprired we don't go back to
the days of slavery it was certainly better for the country and
empoyers,
perhaps T i m can explain why slavery came to an end. It does seem that
some want to bring this sort of workforce back.

The workers I saw being interviewed said that if they worked hard, they
were getting £800 a week.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Brian Reay has brought this to us :
We have a serious problem with people who expect to be carried by others
and/or paid more than their skills etc justify.

If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc, stamped down
on those who have one identity for benefits and another for a 'side line', we
could reduce welfare spending and force our lazy scroungers to do the jobs
migrants do. The latter would reduce the attraction of the UK to migrants.

+1 !!!

On 05/02/2018 11:01, tim... wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:59:13 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/02/2018 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:11:12 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall


I saw a program a while back where they ran teams of British and EU
workers side by side (crop picking, building etc) and the Europeans
won out in every case.

Maybe when the current good ones go, we don't want to do it ourselves
and they get the second level Europeans in, the Brexiteers will
realise the extent of the damage they have inflicted on all of us.

There's no reason why we shouldn't import workers from anywhere in the
world if it suits us, once we regain our sovereignty.

Why don't we do that now then? The split of people coming here because
of the free movement of people and workers within the EU and those
already coming into this country via the std immigration / customers
controls are about the same (180k/a I think).

the difference is that 80% of the EU immigrants a
"unemployed seeking work" (with an entitlement to in-work benefits if
they find one)
and 80% of the ROW immigrants a
Highly skilled worker with a guaranteed job to go to
or
family member who will be financially supported by their family already
here
(with no entitlement to any benefits.)

in both cases having had to jump through multiple hoops to qualify for
that status.

tim





Well that may cause a problem as 2017 figures say 4% of EU born migrants
are on unemployment benefits while over 6% of immigrants from elsewhere
are on unemployment benefits so your 80% is probably another brexiteer lie.

The unemployment rate across the whole of the EU is apparently about
5.5% FWIW.

Just where did you get the figures from?


BTW the fall in the pound may affect things as there is less incentive
for a migrant to come to the UK if the value of the currency they can
send home to support their family is less.

On 05/02/2018 11:15, Fredxx wrote:
On 05/02/2018 09:42, Brian Reay wrote:
On 04/02/2018 22:11, dennis@home wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall





Hardly a surprise.

We have a serious problem with people who expect to be carried by
others and/or paid more than their skills etc justify.

Do you work as much as those lazy people who are carried by those who do?

If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc,

I agree, all state benefits should stop.

I am not sure that anyone wants ~40% of the population starving.
It would be very difficult to control once people start to rebel.

Maybe you should build the gas chambers first?


stamped down on those who have one identity for benefits and another
for a 'side line', we could reduce welfare spending and force our
lazy scroungers to do the jobs migrants do. The latter would reduce
the attraction of the UK to migrants.

A national wage would be the obvious solution, to those who have lived
here for say 10 years. Then tax without any tax allowance.

On 05/02/2018 10:53, tim... wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall



because bending down all day doing a repetitive job is tough work

why is that strange?

tim






Why do you think its strange enough to ask why its strange?

In message , Bill
writes
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I once met a man set on developing a machine for picking
Blackcurrants:-)

Much horticultural research goes into developing hybrid varieties with
very narrow ripening periods. Thus aiding mechanised harvesting to the
annoyance of vegetable gardeners who want extended ripening so they
can enjoy a crop over a longer period.

Did he succeed with his blackcurrant machine?

Not that I know of:-)

My first holiday job was picking blackcurrants that went to Ribena.
Workers were, in those days, mainly local farm worker's wives. After a
week, I was taken aside by the farm owner and shown what I was costing
him and what the produce sold for. I was moved to the farm's sales area.

I'm not up to date on this but surprising types of produce are
mechanically harvested for factory sorting. Peas, beans potatoes ...
must be 50 years.



--
Tim Lamb

On 05/02/2018 12:44, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/02/2018 11:15, Fredxx wrote:
On 05/02/2018 09:42, Brian Reay wrote:
On 04/02/2018 22:11, dennis@home wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall





Hardly a surprise.

We have a serious problem with people who expect to be carried by
others and/or paid more than their skills etc justify.

Do you work as much as those lazy people who are carried by those who do?

If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc,

I agree, all state benefits should stop.

I am not sure that anyone wants ~40% of the population starving.
It would be very difficult to control once people start to rebel.

Maybe you should build the gas chambers first?

I was merely agreeing with you, are you the sort to have gas chambers in
mind?

stamped down on those who have one identity for benefits and another
for a 'side line', we could reduce welfare spending and force our
lazy scroungers to do the jobs migrants do. The latter would reduce
the attraction of the UK to migrants.

A national wage would be the obvious solution, to those who have lived
here for say 10 years. Then tax without any tax allowance.

On 05/02/2018 13:13, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 12:10:29 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 05/02/2018 11:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 11:35:07 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 05/02/2018 10:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Many children would take up the offer. The idea of making say £5 per
hour,
even at a piece rate would attract many.

What consumers will pay the resultant end price ?

I assuming you are referring to the hourly rate?

No. I am referring to the fact that increased costs in the supply chain
have to be passed on to the consumer.


Are you suggesting that £5 per hour is more than immigrants get paid?

Wouldn't that be illegal?

I am saying that if you have been paying workers x/y, and decided to
increase that to 2x/y then - all else being equal - the end price will
need to increase to reflect that.

Are you now saying the children will be paid twice the immigrants wage?

So the question is, are consumers willing to pay that extra ? Or rather,
are consumers happy paying that extra. Because prices are already rising.

You still haven't explained where this 'extra' comes from.

If demand is reduced through an increased cost to the consumer the
consumer might buy something else instead. The landowner might also take
a hit if the yield from his land has reduced.

While the consumer always pays, the actual price is down to supply and
demand.

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 05/02/2018 10:57, T i m wrote:
Some people really don't have any drive. Most of the EU
migrant workers do (as most people I have spoken to seem to agree).

It's self-selecting. It takes drive just to migrate, let alone to do the
work.

Quite. It would seem many UK born unemployed won't travel a few miles for
work - let alone several hundred.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
If we stopped people refusing work offers, stopped benefits etc,

I agree, all state benefits should stop.

Apart from the ones you and your family get, obviously.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/02/2018 22:11, dennis@home wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...bs-in-cornwall


Fruit and vegetable picking is a mainly seasonal job which used to be
traditionlly done by students/young people during their generous holiday
periods.

It seems the modern younger generations eschewed this work and left it
to migrants which is ironic as we are led to believe the snowflakes now
find this work too onerous and hard.

In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
Fruit and vegetable picking is a mainly seasonal job which used to be
traditionlly done by students/young people during their generous holiday
periods.

Depends what you mean by 'traditional'. At one time hop picking in Kent
was done by London's East Enders on their annual holiday from work.

They must have been rather fitter than the average today, it seems.
Despite not living anything like as long.

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/02/2018 13:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
On 05/02/2018 10:57, T i m wrote:
Some people really don't have any drive. Most of the EU
migrant workers do (as most people I have spoken to seem to agree).

It's self-selecting. It takes drive just to migrate, let alone to do the
work.

Quite. It would seem many UK born unemployed won't travel a few miles for
work - let alone several hundred.

Some of us, we just need an incentive.

For someone who doesn't work, it's a little two faced to complain when
others choose not to.

It doesn't help having a tax and benefit system that disincentives
casual work.