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Default Smart Meter Nonsense

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings -
do I care! It's a business account at a village hall.

Peter

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On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings -
do I care!Â* It's a business account at a village hall.


IIRC it stems from worries some expressed about data protection/invasion
of privacy: eg "burglars will know when we are out".

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On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings


Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a
request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery?

I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically
cut off.

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alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings


Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?


Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.
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On 20/01/2018 19:16, alan_m wrote:
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least
once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30
min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly
readings


Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a
request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery?

I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically
cut off.


I'm surprised an electric smart meter has a battery, apart from backup
purposes!




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alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings


Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?


Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.


Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run
millions of smartmeters, them or us?

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On 20/01/2018 20:49, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:


Why are you worried about a penny a year?


Smart meters are paid for by consumers/customers at a lot more than
1p/annum

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Graham. wrote:

I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us

directly them, indirectly us I suppose.

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On 20/01/2018 19:16, alan_m wrote:
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least
once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30
min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly
readings


Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a
request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery?

I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically
cut off.


That is BS.
Electric meters don't have batteries to run flat and smart gas meters
wouldn't shut the gas off because of safety concerns.
You probably heard it from a paranoid I don't want a smart meter person.

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Graham. wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings

Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?


Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.


Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run
millions of smartmeters, them or us?

Smart meters would not exist if the power companies did not make more
money from their use.


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"Graham." wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings

Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?


Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.


Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run
millions of smartmeters, them or us?


With the ones that can allegedly turn off the supply remotely, it would
have to be them, otherwise they couldn't be turn on remotely later.

And its unlikely to be enough power to matter anyway.

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On Saturday, 20 January 2018 18:14:08 UTC, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings -
do I care! It's a business account at a village hall.

Peter


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.

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Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful
settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper and the
postal bill goes through the roof.
I do sometimes wonder who trains the staff at these organisations when new
software is put in.
Brian

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"Peter Andrews" wrote in message
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Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a
year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings -
do I care! It's a business account at a village hall.

Peter

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"FMurtz" wrote in message
...
Graham. wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least
once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings

Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?

Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.


Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run
millions of smartmeters, them or us?

Smart meters would not exist if the power companies did not make more
money from their use.


But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers.

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On 21/01/2018 10:00, Rod Speed wrote:



But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers.



But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform?

BG were fond of sending letters with red print stating that they could
get a court order to obtain access to your property if you didn't make
an appointment to let the meter reader in to perform the "SAFETY CHECK".
These letters were routinely sent out if the meter hadn't been read for
18 months irrespective of providing multiple self reads. However, most
meter readers were in it for an easy life and this meter read could be a
self meter read if you filled in the numbers on a card and left it
outside for them to collect.



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On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.


Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow!

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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 07:45:38 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful
settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper and
the postal bill goes through the roof.


Electronic bills/bank statements are OK but much prefer paper ones,
particulary for card/bank statements. I can tick off the entries as
being correct, write on the bill a pay by date and amount, place it
on the heap of others for payment to be set up next time I log into
online banking.

Trouble is the amount of paper you get with a paper bill thses days
is stupid and most of it useless "What is a kWHr?" "How can I save
energy?" etc. The core billing/statement information is all on a
single sheet, one or two other sheets go straight for recycling...
All I want are the facts, for a lecky bill that would fit into 1/3 of
a single side of A4, the upper 1/2 having address's, the lower 1/3
the paying in slip.

What amusses me is Barclays bank statements they are now at least
three sheets (only one useful). I remember a good few years ago, they
cut back paper statements to just to just the statement, this well
before electronic ones were available.

WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper
bills/statements containing just the facts? It has to be opt in, so
those without net access (thus not able to set and option or download
a bill) get the "full" version by default.

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On 21/01/18 12:19, Huge wrote:
On 2018-01-21, Dave Liquorice wrote:

[24 lines snipped]

WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper
bills/statements containing just the facts?


*applause*



Litigation


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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 12:23:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper
bills/statements containing just the facts?


*applause*


Litigation


Explain? Surely litigation can only be based on the facts, not the
inabilty of some dumb sod to understand those facts?

Or do you mean the Granny State taking action against the companies
if they don't include all the rubbush? But that could be worked round
with the opt in acknowledging that the rubbish won't be sent and you
don't need your hand held and arse wiped thank you very much.

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In article l.net, Dave
Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 07:45:38 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:


Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful
settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper
and the postal bill goes through the roof.


Electronic bills/bank statements are OK but much prefer paper ones,
particulary for card/bank statements. I can tick off the entries as being
correct, write on the bill a pay by date and amount, place it on the heap
of others for payment to be set up next time I log into online banking.


Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.

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On 21/01/2018 10:57, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 10:00, Rod Speed wrote:



But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers.



But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform?

BG were fond of sending letters with red print stating that they could
get a court order to obtain access to your property if you didn't make
an appointment to let the meter reader in to perform the "SAFETY CHECK".
These letters were routinely sent out if the meter hadn't been read for
18 months irrespective of providing multiple self reads. However, most
meter readers were in it for an easy life and this meter read could be a
self meter read if you filled in the numbers on a card and left it
outside for them to collect.




I think you will find there is a legal obligation to perform checks
periodically.

You will also find that they can't just cut you off even if a smart
meter would allow them to do so.

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On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as
renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.


Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow!


Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from
green sources.
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alan_m has brought this to us :
But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform?


I cannot recall a meter reader ever performing any sort of 'safety
check' here in the past 40+ years.
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alan_m has brought this to us :
But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform?


I cannot recall a meter reader ever performing any sort of 'safety
check' here in the past 40+ years.


Would you notice if he checked that the seals on the meter and cable
head are intact?

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"Graham." wrote in message
.. .
alan_m wrote:

Peter Andrews wrote:

Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min
intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings

Life expectancy of the battery in the meter?

Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on
mains power.


Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run
millions of smartmeters, them or us?


With the ones that can allegedly turn off the supply remotely, it would
have to be them, otherwise they couldn't be turn on remotely later.


Yes but the "comms" may be on "their" side of the switch but still me
on the "metered" side of the meter

And its unlikely to be enough power to matter anyway.


My comment wasn't serious in that context, more about the principle.

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On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as
renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.


Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow!


Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from
green sources.


Then we'll all be on "green" tariffs.

I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the
future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take
account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power
factor.
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Graham. used his keyboard to write :
Would you notice if he checked that the seals on the meter and cable
head are intact?


No, but I would notice if they were replaced..

My E meter had no seal fitted for 20 years, until an SM was installed.
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charles formulated the question :
Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.


Why would you need to, they are all there online carefully filed away.
You or you energy provider can both see those files if there should be
an issue.
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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:47:54 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

I've got a ú5 device that does that. It's sat on my desk next to me and
picks up a signal by wireless from a clamp on the meter tail in the box
outside.


Aye, also connected to the server to log power use at one minute
intervals.

They can't cut me off, smart meter or not, without digging up the
ground.. My meter's on the outside wall of my house. Now why they
could pull the master fuse etc, there's nothing to stop me just putting
another one back in.


That's why they come a dig up the road. I wonder what a Smart Meter
does when it's been told to cut the supply and some one by passes it?
Will it report power on it's output terminals when supposedly "off"?
Will it report loss of power on its input if its reconnected(*),
cross matchable with recorded outages? Will "the system" notice no
useage reports after a while if left disconnected.

The connection from main cutout to meter is normally direct so not
easy to break into and maintain the supply to the meter whilst
working live. Not impossible but tricky in practice to avoid the
flash BANG.

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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.


Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that
the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been
altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't
have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the
water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility
bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID.

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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 14:57:00 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My E meter had no seal fitted for 20 years, until an SM was installed.


Yup, and if you cut the seal off, no meter reader ever so much as
mentioned it.



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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:03:45 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.


Why would you need to, they are all there online


And when your net connection is broke?

... carefully filed away.


One would hope they have a decent multiply redundant data back up
system but there ways that even that can fail.

You or you energy provider can both see those files if there should be
an issue.


And if the issue is that the current company copy doesn't agree with
the one they sent?

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On 21/01/2018 15:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.


Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that
the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been
altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't
have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the
water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility
bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID.


Its easy to scan and change paper documents and then print them on a
colour laser.
You can't tell the difference without using a microscope and knowing
what to look for.
I have laser printed my utility bill and used it for ID without problems.

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On Sunday, 21 January 2018 14:50:15 UTC, Graham. wrote:
On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as
renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.


Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow!


Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from
green sources.


Then we'll all be on "green" tariffs.

I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the
future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take
account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power
factor.


That is already done to commercial users.
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On Sunday, 21 January 2018 10:59:45 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:


The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate.
You will be charged more when the wind don't blow.


Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow!


Possibly even that.
Large commercial users can opt for that right now.


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On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:25:34 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

I've got a ·5 device that does that. It's sat on my desk next to

me
and picks up a signal by wireless from a clamp on the meter tail

in
the box outside.


Aye, also connected to the server to log power use at one minute


No, it's my own device. It's not on the internet,


Niethers mine, "server" is my server, located upstairs. The server
can serve a web page of the data viewable only on the LAN.

it just uses wireless frequencies (local frequencies like your router)


None of my routers have any wireless side.

That's why they come a dig up the road. I wonder what a Smart

Meter
does when it's been told to cut the supply and some one by passes

it?
Will it report power on it's output terminals when supposedly

"off"?
Will it report loss of power on its input if its reconnected(*),
cross matchable with recorded outages? Will "the system" notice no
useage reports after a while if left disconnected.


I wouldn't put power on its output terminals.


That's an obvious one not to do.

The connection from main cutout to meter is normally direct so not
easy to break into and maintain the supply to the meter whilst
working live. Not impossible but tricky in practice to avoid the
flash BANG.


A short interruption to the meter's supply wouldn't make it do anything.
It must expect outages.


You've not got your anti-fraud hat on properly. Agreed a meter should
expect outages but not reporting loss of input from x to y date/time
when in "off" mode next time it phones home opens the door to fraud a
little. All outages on the DNO's network are recorded, either by an
auto-recloser phoneing home to say it tripped/locked out, same for
larger sub-stations and primary sub-stations or routine/maintenance
work or fault clearance. For the latter all switching alterations,
and the sequence of them, required to isolate a section of line go
through and are approved by the DNO's control room before being
actioned on the ground. Failure of the grid would also be recorded.
PoP to automatically check if there was an outage when the meter says
there was one and raise a flag to "safety check" the meter if there
wasn't a recorded outage and the meter is in "off" mode.

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On 21/01/2018 16:20, harry wrote:

I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the
future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take
account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power
factor.


That is already done to commercial users.


Its not *done* to commercial users, they get rates depending on factors
like; power factor, peak power, etc.

The savings can be enough to get big sites to actively cut some power
when demand is getting high.


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On 21 Jan 2018 16:34:01 GMT, Huge wrote:

You've not got your anti-fraud hat on properly. Agreed a meter

should
expect outages but not reporting loss of input from x to y

date/time
when in "off" mode next time it phones home opens the door to

fraud a
little. All outages on the DNO's network are recorded,


What, even when Toothless Dave brings down the overhead line to my house
with the combine?


One assumes the DNO will come along and repair the line. Which will
need that section to be isolated and thus will be recorded. The
auto-recloser feeding that section will also have phoned home to say
it's tripped or (hopefully) locked out. The automatics are quick, if
the power stays off here for more than a few minutes I'm on the phone
reporting the outage. Quite often the response is "Oh, we not aware
of an outage there" click, click on keyboard, "oh yes, I see we do
have a problem...".

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Cheers
Dave.



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Default ****** Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the Sociopathic Attention Whore

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 16:57:21 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


I think


HAHAHAHAAA!!! Good one, Birdbrain!

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID:

--
Richard to pathetic ****** Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID:

--
about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a ******** with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID:

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID:

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID:
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Default Smart Meter Nonsense

On 21/01/18 15:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement.


Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that
the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been
altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't
have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the
water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility
bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID.


I've never had anyone complain when I've supplied home printed material
like that for ID purposes - I think it's just considered the norm now.
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