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Smart Meter Nonsense
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once
a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings - do I care! It's a business account at a village hall. Peter --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings - do I care!Â* It's a business account at a village hall. IIRC it stems from worries some expressed about data protection/invasion of privacy: eg "burglars will know when we are out". -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery? I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically cut off. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smart Meter Nonsense
alan_m wrote:
Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 20/01/2018 19:16, alan_m wrote:
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery? I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically cut off. I'm surprised an electric smart meter has a battery, apart from backup purposes! |
Smart Meter Nonsense
alan_m wrote:
Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 20/01/2018 20:49, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Why are you worried about a penny a year? Smart meters are paid for by consumers/customers at a lot more than 1p/annum -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smart Meter Nonsense
Graham. wrote:
I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us directly them, indirectly us I suppose. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 20/01/2018 19:16, alan_m wrote:
On 20/01/2018 18:17, Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? The more it responds to a request to transmit data the shorter the life of the battery? I've read that when the battery fails the supply may be automatically cut off. That is BS. Electric meters don't have batteries to run flat and smart gas meters wouldn't shut the gas off because of safety concerns. You probably heard it from a paranoid I don't want a smart meter person. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
Graham. wrote:
alan_m wrote: Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us? Smart meters would not exist if the power companies did not make more money from their use. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
"Graham." wrote in message ... alan_m wrote: Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us? With the ones that can allegedly turn off the supply remotely, it would have to be them, otherwise they couldn't be turn on remotely later. And its unlikely to be enough power to matter anyway. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Saturday, 20 January 2018 18:14:08 UTC, Peter Andrews wrote:
Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings - do I care! It's a business account at a village hall. Peter The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful
settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper and the postal bill goes through the roof. I do sometimes wonder who trains the staff at these organisations when new software is put in. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Peter Andrews" wrote in message ... Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings - do I care! It's a business account at a village hall. Peter --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Smart Meter Nonsense
"FMurtz" wrote in message ... Graham. wrote: alan_m wrote: Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us? Smart meters would not exist if the power companies did not make more money from their use. But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 10:00, Rod Speed wrote:
But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers. But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform? BG were fond of sending letters with red print stating that they could get a court order to obtain access to your property if you didn't make an appointment to let the meter reader in to perform the "SAFETY CHECK". These letters were routinely sent out if the meter hadn't been read for 18 months irrespective of providing multiple self reads. However, most meter readers were in it for an easy life and this meter read could be a self meter read if you filled in the numbers on a card and left it outside for them to collect. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote:
The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow! -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 07:45:38 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper and the postal bill goes through the roof. Electronic bills/bank statements are OK but much prefer paper ones, particulary for card/bank statements. I can tick off the entries as being correct, write on the bill a pay by date and amount, place it on the heap of others for payment to be set up next time I log into online banking. Trouble is the amount of paper you get with a paper bill thses days is stupid and most of it useless "What is a kWHr?" "How can I save energy?" etc. The core billing/statement information is all on a single sheet, one or two other sheets go straight for recycling... All I want are the facts, for a lecky bill that would fit into 1/3 of a single side of A4, the upper 1/2 having address's, the lower 1/3 the paying in slip. What amusses me is Barclays bank statements they are now at least three sheets (only one useful). I remember a good few years ago, they cut back paper statements to just to just the statement, this well before electronic ones were available. WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper bills/statements containing just the facts? It has to be opt in, so those without net access (thus not able to set and option or download a bill) get the "full" version by default. -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/18 12:19, Huge wrote:
On 2018-01-21, Dave Liquorice wrote: [24 lines snipped] WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper bills/statements containing just the facts? *applause* Litigation -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 12:23:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
WTF can't companies offer a short form option of paper bills/statements containing just the facts? *applause* Litigation Explain? Surely litigation can only be based on the facts, not the inabilty of some dumb sod to understand those facts? Or do you mean the Granny State taking action against the companies if they don't include all the rubbush? But that could be worked round with the opt in acknowledging that the rubbish won't be sent and you don't need your hand held and arse wiped thank you very much. -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
In article l.net, Dave
Liquorice wrote: On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 07:45:38 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote: Well I expect its some awful default setting in the ever so helpful settings that nobody knows exists until the system runs out of paper and the postal bill goes through the roof. Electronic bills/bank statements are OK but much prefer paper ones, particulary for card/bank statements. I can tick off the entries as being correct, write on the bill a pay by date and amount, place it on the heap of others for payment to be set up next time I log into online banking. Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 10:57, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 10:00, Rod Speed wrote: But that can be because they dont need an army of meter readers. But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform? BG were fond of sending letters with red print stating that they could get a court order to obtain access to your property if you didn't make an appointment to let the meter reader in to perform the "SAFETY CHECK". These letters were routinely sent out if the meter hadn't been read for 18 months irrespective of providing multiple self reads. However, most meter readers were in it for an easy life and this meter read could be a self meter read if you filled in the numbers on a card and left it outside for them to collect. I think you will find there is a legal obligation to perform checks periodically. You will also find that they can't just cut you off even if a smart meter would allow them to do so. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote: The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow! Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from green sources. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
alan_m has brought this to us :
But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform? I cannot recall a meter reader ever performing any sort of 'safety check' here in the past 40+ years. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
alan_m has brought this to us :
But what about the yearly "safety checks" that the meter readers perform? I cannot recall a meter reader ever performing any sort of 'safety check' here in the past 40+ years. Would you notice if he checked that the seals on the meter and cable head are intact? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Smart Meter Nonsense
"Graham." wrote in message .. . alan_m wrote: Peter Andrews wrote: Can anybody explain why EDF need to write a letter to me, at least once a year, to advise that they currently read my smart meter at 30 min intervals and that I can if I wish change to daily or monthly readings Life expectancy of the battery in the meter? Smart gas meters do have batteries, but smart electricity meters work on mains power. Makes sense. I wonder who is paying for the extra electric to run millions of smartmeters, them or us? With the ones that can allegedly turn off the supply remotely, it would have to be them, otherwise they couldn't be turn on remotely later. Yes but the "comms" may be on "their" side of the switch but still me on the "metered" side of the meter And its unlikely to be enough power to matter anyway. My comment wasn't serious in that context, more about the principle. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote: The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow! Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from green sources. Then we'll all be on "green" tariffs. I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power factor. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Smart Meter Nonsense
Graham. used his keyboard to write :
Would you notice if he checked that the seals on the meter and cable head are intact? No, but I would notice if they were replaced.. My E meter had no seal fitted for 20 years, until an SM was installed. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
charles formulated the question :
Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. Why would you need to, they are all there online carefully filed away. You or you energy provider can both see those files if there should be an issue. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:47:54 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
I've got a ú5 device that does that. It's sat on my desk next to me and picks up a signal by wireless from a clamp on the meter tail in the box outside. Aye, also connected to the server to log power use at one minute intervals. They can't cut me off, smart meter or not, without digging up the ground.. My meter's on the outside wall of my house. Now why they could pull the master fuse etc, there's nothing to stop me just putting another one back in. That's why they come a dig up the road. I wonder what a Smart Meter does when it's been told to cut the supply and some one by passes it? Will it report power on it's output terminals when supposedly "off"? Will it report loss of power on its input if its reconnected(*), cross matchable with recorded outages? Will "the system" notice no useage reports after a while if left disconnected. The connection from main cutout to meter is normally direct so not easy to break into and maintain the supply to the meter whilst working live. Not impossible but tricky in practice to avoid the flash BANG. -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:
Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID. -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 14:57:00 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
My E meter had no seal fitted for 20 years, until an SM was installed. Yup, and if you cut the seal off, no meter reader ever so much as mentioned it. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:03:45 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. Why would you need to, they are all there online And when your net connection is broke? ... carefully filed away. One would hope they have a decent multiply redundant data back up system but there ways that even that can fail. You or you energy provider can both see those files if there should be an issue. And if the issue is that the current company copy doesn't agree with the one they sent? -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 15:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote: Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID. Its easy to scan and change paper documents and then print them on a colour laser. You can't tell the difference without using a microscope and knowing what to look for. I have laser printed my utility bill and used it for ID without problems. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sunday, 21 January 2018 14:50:15 UTC, Graham. wrote:
On 21/01/2018 10:59, alan_m wrote: On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote: The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow! Only if you are on a green tariff where 100% of your energy is from green sources. Then we'll all be on "green" tariffs. I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power factor. That is already done to commercial users. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sunday, 21 January 2018 10:59:45 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 21/01/2018 07:11, harry wrote: The ultimate purpose of smart meters is to cope with intermiitancy as renewable energy sources come to predominate. You will be charged more when the wind don't blow. Or cut off when the wind doesn't blow! Possibly even that. Large commercial users can opt for that right now. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:25:34 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
I've got a ·5 device that does that. It's sat on my desk next to me and picks up a signal by wireless from a clamp on the meter tail in the box outside. Aye, also connected to the server to log power use at one minute No, it's my own device. It's not on the internet, Niethers mine, "server" is my server, located upstairs. The server can serve a web page of the data viewable only on the LAN. it just uses wireless frequencies (local frequencies like your router) None of my routers have any wireless side. That's why they come a dig up the road. I wonder what a Smart Meter does when it's been told to cut the supply and some one by passes it? Will it report power on it's output terminals when supposedly "off"? Will it report loss of power on its input if its reconnected(*), cross matchable with recorded outages? Will "the system" notice no useage reports after a while if left disconnected. I wouldn't put power on its output terminals. That's an obvious one not to do. The connection from main cutout to meter is normally direct so not easy to break into and maintain the supply to the meter whilst working live. Not impossible but tricky in practice to avoid the flash BANG. A short interruption to the meter's supply wouldn't make it do anything. It must expect outages. You've not got your anti-fraud hat on properly. Agreed a meter should expect outages but not reporting loss of input from x to y date/time when in "off" mode next time it phones home opens the door to fraud a little. All outages on the DNO's network are recorded, either by an auto-recloser phoneing home to say it tripped/locked out, same for larger sub-stations and primary sub-stations or routine/maintenance work or fault clearance. For the latter all switching alterations, and the sequence of them, required to isolate a section of line go through and are approved by the DNO's control room before being actioned on the ground. Failure of the grid would also be recorded. PoP to automatically check if there was an outage when the meter says there was one and raise a flag to "safety check" the meter if there wasn't a recorded outage and the meter is in "off" mode. -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/2018 16:20, harry wrote:
I have also heard on good authority ("Big" Clive Mitchell) that in the future, domestic smartmeters can be switched to a mode that will take account of, and penalise you for, presenting a load with a poor power factor. That is already done to commercial users. Its not *done* to commercial users, they get rates depending on factors like; power factor, peak power, etc. The savings can be enough to get big sites to actively cut some power when demand is getting high. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21 Jan 2018 16:34:01 GMT, Huge wrote:
You've not got your anti-fraud hat on properly. Agreed a meter should expect outages but not reporting loss of input from x to y date/time when in "off" mode next time it phones home opens the door to fraud a little. All outages on the DNO's network are recorded, What, even when Toothless Dave brings down the overhead line to my house with the combine? One assumes the DNO will come along and repair the line. Which will need that section to be isolated and thus will be recorded. The auto-recloser feeding that section will also have phoned home to say it's tripped or (hopefully) locked out. The automatics are quick, if the power stays off here for more than a few minutes I'm on the phone reporting the outage. Quite often the response is "Oh, we not aware of an outage there" click, click on keyboard, "oh yes, I see we do have a problem...". -- Cheers Dave. |
Smart Meter Nonsense
On 21/01/18 15:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:37 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote: Nothing prevents you from printing out your on-line statement. Apart from the faff and if push came to shove it could be argued that the dowloaded electronic document and any print of it has been altered. A document printed on paper, with inks and machine I don't have and matches those used by the company blows that out of the water. There can also be problems with using a self printed utility bill for ID verification, not everyone has photo ID. I've never had anyone complain when I've supplied home printed material like that for ID purposes - I think it's just considered the norm now. |
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