Old gas fire was condemned, so being middle class we of course opted to have a wood burning stove installed.

House is a 1905 single skin detached with suspended floor in the lounge, but installation was fine enough despite the old fire being off-centre in the existing fireplace, so the fitters needed to move everything to the left a bit.

On cutting out the new hole, what we thought was detached plaster underneath the lining-paper covered wall, the fitters exposed what appears to be a chipboard lining with apparently a tar used to adhere the chipboard to the wall. As he pointed out, not exactly the most fire-retardant covering to have in a house...

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Its a fairly significant wall which faces broadly ESE, running for about 8m on a long thin room. There is one wooden double glazed window on that wall, plus a radiator (and the fire place), the main window in the room though is single-glazed original glazing, and the floor is suspended with bare floorboards. It is the coldest room in the house (before the new fire is working) and can get a bit of a draught going if the wind is in the €œwrong€� direction.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 12:59:40 PM UTC, larkim wrote:
Old gas fire was condemned, so being middle class we of course opted to have a wood burning stove installed.

House is a 1905 single skin detached with suspended floor in the lounge, but installation was fine enough despite the old fire being off-centre in the existing fireplace, so the fitters needed to move everything to the left a bit.

On cutting out the new hole, what we thought was detached plaster underneath the lining-paper covered wall, the fitters exposed what appears to be a chipboard lining with apparently a tar used to adhere the chipboard to the wall. As he pointed out, not exactly the most fire-retardant covering to have in a house...

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Its a fairly significant wall which faces broadly ESE, running for about 8m on a long thin room. There is one wooden double glazed window on that wall, plus a radiator (and the fire place), the main window in the room though is single-glazed original glazing, and the floor is suspended with bare floorboards. It is the coldest room in the house (before the new fire is working) and can get a bit of a draught going if the wind is in the €œwrong€� direction.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

If you can get even an inch of celotex on the wall, it should make a huge difference to comfort levels.

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT

replying to larkim, Iggy wrote:
All you need to know is that you're screwed. Either you stay with gas (the
woodstove guys will understand) and throw-in a new stand-off liner or the
chipboard has to come out (wherever it is) for the woodstove. A woodstove will
require air-gapping and insulation from combustibles and require fireproof
materials from start to finish in its chimney flue zone.

A gas fireplace is VERY different and very much your kitchen range, which may
not have ANY exhaust or "chimney". If the woodstove's going to happen and
there's no turning back, for some unreasonable reason. Then, things like
Concrete, Fire-Brick and Refractory Mortar have to replace the tar and
chipboard. The woodstove won't work out as planned, it can be returned and
refunded.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...n-1257277-.htm

On 17/12/2017 14:29, wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

Also consider stopping the wind-chill effect of a northerly
wind on the exterior brick face with sonething like this

http://www.stormdry.com/products/mas...otection-cream

On 17/12/2017 15:17, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkimÂ* wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered
reasonably quickly in the new year.Â* Not DIY, but wondering what
input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out
creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are
constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall
re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get
everything removed back to the brickwork?Â* Are we likely to be
creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating
plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more
money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam,
much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and
coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

Also consider stopping the wind-chill effect of a northerly
wind on the exterior brick face with sonething like this

http://www.stormdry.com/products/mas...otection-cream



PS. Don't bother with using this stuff on a cavity wall. It's
only use is to reduce water penetration into the outside face
of a solid wall which then suffers from the wicking effect of
a cold wind.

Wilko sell a similar product made by IKO, but that is solvent-
based and cheaper.

Woodstove is in and certified. Chipboard was pulled back to the required distance from the fireplace chamber etc. so no issues there.

COnfirmed with them that all building regs are satisfied, and checked this out myself with ref to minimum distances etc.

So thankfully were not screwed. Gas had to come out as it was condemned in any event.

All Im interested at this point is what solution to use for the whole wall, now weve resolved one part of it.

Well gain some space with removing the chipboard lining. Wondering whether to go all the way back to the brickwork across the whole wall, if sections of it arent lined with the chipboard (not pulled it all back yet so not sure!)

On 17/12/2017 21:38, jim wrote:
larkim Wrote in message:
Woodstove is in and certified. Chipboard was pulled back to the required distance from the fireplace chamber etc. so no issues there.

COnfirmed with them that all building regs are satisfied, and checked this out myself with ref to minimum distances etc.

So thankfully we?re not screwed. Gas had to come out as it was condemned in any event.

All I?m interested at this point is what solution to use for the whole wall, now we?ve resolved one part of it.


Mmm so behind stove is a single brick wall?

Unlikely I would have thought. Single skin maybe but 9 inch wall surely?
Unless perhaps it is a single storey extension?

Stove is in old fireplace hearth, surrounded on three sides by fireproof boarding onto brick. House walls are 1905 construction, so think two bricks deep.

larkim Wrote in message:
Woodstove is in and certified. Chipboard was pulled back to the required distance from the fireplace chamber etc. so no issues there.

COnfirmed with them that all building regs are satisfied, and checked this out myself with ref to minimum distances etc.

So thankfully we?re not screwed. Gas had to come out as it was condemned in any event.

All I?m interested at this point is what solution to use for the whole wall, now we?ve resolved one part of it.


Mmm so behind stove is a single brick wall?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

newshound wrote:

On 17/12/2017 21:38, jim wrote:
larkim Wrote in message: Woodstove is in
and certified. Chipboard was pulled back to the required distance from
the fireplace chamber etc. so no issues there. COnfirmed with them
that all building regs are satisfied, and checked this out myself with
ref to minimum distances etc. So thankfully we?re not screwed. Gas
had to come out as it was condemned in any event. All I?m interested
at this point is what solution to use for the whole wall, now we?ve
resolved one part of it.

Mmm so behind stove is a single brick wall?

Unlikely I would have thought. Single skin maybe but 9 inch wall surely?
Unless perhaps it is a single storey extension?

9" *is* a single brick wall. Sideways on is a half-brick. (Metric
sizies are available.)

--

Roger Hayter

replying to larkim, Iggy wrote:
Thank you that's very helpful, I'm glad the woodstove worked out so well.
Frankly, I'd say leave it alone and just patch what was disrupted, since it
hasn't been a problem yet and the interior facing of an exterior wall doesn't
protect anyone, anything nor fix the rest of the room.

Although, if you're concerned, then Cement Backerboard (i.e. Hardie or Aquadry
brands) with Insulation Board (i.e. Celotex or Jablite brands) behind would be
your only best choice in addressing increased comfort, water vapor control and
fire safety. Those would be mounted separately or together with Masonry Screws
drilled into the brick's mortar joints.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...n-1257277-.htm

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

That advice would leave an impermeable barrier on the cold side of the new insulation, a recipe for damp & mould. I would not do that.


NT

Why is one window single glazed. Seems a bit daft.
I'm a bit confused as to why the whole wall needs to be redone. Could you
not just remove the dodgy insulation close to where the wood burner and its
associated bits need to go?


I do have my doubts about wood burners, somebody close to me has one and the
smell and smoke from their chimney is very much reminding me of the bad old
days of smog's.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"larkim" wrote in message
...
Old gas fire was condemned, so being middle class we of course opted to have
a wood burning stove installed.

House is a 1905 single skin detached with suspended floor in the lounge, but
installation was fine enough despite the old fire being off-centre in the
existing fireplace, so the fitters needed to move everything to the left a
bit.

On cutting out the new hole, what we thought was detached plaster underneath
the lining-paper covered wall, the fitters exposed what appears to be a
chipboard lining with apparently a tar used to adhere the chipboard to the
wall. As he pointed out, not exactly the most fire-retardant covering to
have in a house...

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably
quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could
have on the spec of what is put in place.

It's a fairly significant wall which faces broadly ESE, running for about 8m
on a long thin room. There is one wooden double glazed window on that wall,
plus a radiator (and the fire place), the main window in the room though is
single-glazed original glazing, and the floor is suspended with bare
floorboards. It is the coldest room in the house (before the new fire is
working) and can get a bit of a draught going if the wind is in the "wrong"
direction.

Assuming we don't really want to lose floor space (so I'm ruling out
creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are
constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done,
what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything
removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some
damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that I'm wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

On Monday, 18 December 2017 09:13:58 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Why is one window single glazed. Seems a bit daft.
I'm a bit confused as to why the whole wall needs to be redone. Could you
not just remove the dodgy insulation close to where the wood burner and its
associated bits need to go?



We've just not bothered stumping up the cash for replacement windows as
the existing timber framed and float glass single glazed window look nice
and are in keeping with the rest of the house. We just suck up the heating
cost for aesthetic.

In terms of removing the rest, now that we know there is a bitumen and wood
coating to the walls in that room, it seems sensible enough to consider that
in the event of an electrical fire for example this would be much more
flammable than most other constructions so wanted to replace. And in
addition we need to redecorate the remainder of that wall in any event now
that the new hearth / stove are in place so it was more a case of "doing a
job properly", and if that involves removing all of the existing (but
previously un-known) board from the walls then that's what it will take.

I'm not particularly concerned about making significant improvements to the
insulation of the room, though if there is an opportunity to do so I wanted
to investigate what the options were and whether there were any downsides
that I was unaware of (e.g. creating damp where we have no damp, needing to
comply with building regs, etc etc).

If its just a case of get the builders in and let them take care of it,
we're happy enough with that as a solution!

On 18/12/2017 04:04, wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.


Yes, I'd recommend celotex. 50mm has turned one of the coldest rooms in
the house to one of the warmest. 25mm - makes a difference, but on
hindsight I wish I'd gone 50mm.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.

The science on this is - complicated. Plenty of info available online.
An anecdotal tip would be to take the board below the room's floor/ceiling.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

That advice would leave an impermeable barrier on the cold side of the new insulation, a recipe for damp & mould. I would not do that.


Although it all looks a bit of a dog's breakfast, I don't see how adding
insulation to the inside creates a greater risk of mould - heat from the
inside is more likely to stay inside, reducing any bridging.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 21:50:13 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 17/12/2017 21:38, jim wrote:
larkim Wrote in message:
Woodstove is in and certified. Chipboard was pulled back to the required distance from the fireplace chamber etc. so no issues there.

COnfirmed with them that all building regs are satisfied, and checked this out myself with ref to minimum distances etc.

So thankfully we?re not screwed. Gas had to come out as it was condemned in any event.

All I?m interested at this point is what solution to use for the whole wall, now we?ve resolved one part of it.


Mmm so behind stove is a single brick wall?

Unlikely I would have thought. Single skin maybe but 9 inch wall surely?
Unless perhaps it is a single storey extension?
I've got a 1900 built victorian semi, 9" solid walls. In the lounge we
have two fireplaces (originally it was two rooms) on the outside wall.
The backs of the fireplaces are only one brick thick (4.5").

On 18/12/2017 04:04, wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

That advice would leave an impermeable barrier on the cold side of the new insulation, a recipe for damp & mould. I would not do that.


NT

Not if you tape all the joints of the celotex. This will be another
impermeable barrier on the warm side which is what you need. Also
needs to be hermiticaly sealed all round the edges too.

Celotex is closed-cell anyway. It is impermeable.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:51:01 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 18/12/2017 04:04, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

That advice would leave an impermeable barrier on the cold side of the new insulation, a recipe for damp & mould. I would not do that.


NT

Not if you tape all the joints of the celotex. This will be another
impermeable barrier on the warm side which is what you need. Also
needs to be hermiticaly sealed all round the edges too.

It would need to be sealed impermeably and stay so for life to work. Expecting that from tape with the usual house movement is more than optimistic.


Celotex is closed-cell anyway. It is impermeable.

far from. quote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0 which shows 4 material samples sat on boiling water jars for 30 mins, and three of them transmitting significant amounts of vapour.
The 4 materials were foamglass, PIR, perlite and rockwool. Only the foamglass didn't transmit significant vapour.


What would I do? Probably scrape the surface of the joints with an angle grinder so damp can get out, and make the warm side as near impermeable as I could.


NT

On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:13:09 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 18/12/2017 04:04, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.

The science on this is - complicated.

really it isn't, but it's not obvious. Most people seem to think damp gets in from the outside.


NT

Wrote in message:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:51:01 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 18/12/2017 04:04, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 17/12/2017 14:29, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 12:59:40 UTC, larkim wrote:

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Assuming we don?t really want to lose floor space (so I?m ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that I?m wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt

PIR is the answer. Celotex, Kingspan, etc. Insulating plaster is more money and less insulation - and IIRC may also be polystyrene foam, much more flammable than chipboard or anything on Grenfell.

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.


NT


If the whole wall is covered with chipboard stuck on with bitumen then
I guess this was done to deal with a problem of penetrating moisture
through what is presumably a 9 inch solid wall. Leave it in place.

Removing all the decoration and overlaying with another layer of
'celotex'-type stuff works wonders.

That advice would leave an impermeable barrier on the cold side of the new insulation, a recipe for damp & mould. I would not do that.


NT

Not if you tape all the joints of the celotex. This will be another
impermeable barrier on the warm side which is what you need. Also
needs to be hermiticaly sealed all round the edges too.

It would need to be sealed impermeably and stay so for life to work. Expecting that from tape with the usual house movement is more than optimistic.


Celotex is closed-cell anyway. It is impermeable.

far from. quote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0 which shows 4 material samples sat on boiling water jars for 30 mins, and three of them transmitting significant amounts of vapour.
The 4 materials were foamglass, PIR, perlite and rockwool. Only the foamglass didn't transmit significant vapour.


?Copied & pasted from


http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/...ts.php?Discuss
ionID=6879

The rest of the "quote" is there too but the video is no longer
available....

How many houses have 100deg c steaming interiors?

Cue more bs?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 18/12/2017 13:09, wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:13:09 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 18/12/2017 04:04, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.

The science on this is - complicated.

really it isn't, but it's not obvious. Most people seem to think damp gets in from the outside.


Perhaps I should have added that *I* find it complicated :-)

A while back I made the mistake of reading this:

https://www.bre.co.uk/page.jsp?id=3397

and in particular this:

https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pd...ure-review.pdf

Everything seems to be an indeterminate risk, benefit, un/intended
consequence or cost.

And while I'd agree that damp in most circumstances comes from inside,
understanding how it moves through an unventilated building takes some
doing IMHO.


--
Cheers, Rob

wrote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0

"This video is unavailable"

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
wrote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0

"This video is unavailable"


IOW he didn't watch it... It was a copy & paste "kwote" (see my
earlier response)...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 17/12/2017 12:59, larkim wrote:
Old gas fire was condemned, so being middle class we of course opted to have a wood burning stove installed.

House is a 1905 single skin detached with suspended floor in the lounge, but installation was fine enough despite the old fire being off-centre in the existing fireplace, so the fitters needed to move everything to the left a bit.

On cutting out the new hole, what we thought was detached plaster underneath the lining-paper covered wall, the fitters exposed what appears to be a chipboard lining with apparently a tar used to adhere the chipboard to the wall. As he pointed out, not exactly the most fire-retardant covering to have in a house...

So we will be having the whole wall stripped back and re-covered reasonably quickly in the new year. Not DIY, but wondering what input I should / could have on the spec of what is put in place.

Its a fairly significant wall which faces broadly ESE, running for about 8m on a long thin room. There is one wooden double glazed window on that wall, plus a radiator (and the fire place), the main window in the room though is single-glazed original glazing, and the floor is suspended with bare floorboards. It is the coldest room in the house (before the new fire is working) and can get a bit of a draught going if the wind is in the €œwrong€� direction.

Assuming we dont really want to lose floor space (so Im ruling out creating an air-gap with a batten frame etc), and at the moment are constraining ourselves to thinking about only having that one wall re-done, what are the recommendations for materials assuming we get everything removed back to the brickwork? Are we likely to be creating ourselves some damp issues if we go for a top end insulating plasterboard etc?

Any pitfalls that Im wilfully or unwittingly ignoring?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Matt


I'd look into 'dry lining', ideally with some insulation, and a vapour
barrier.

I appreciate you don't want to sacrifice floor area but the heat loss
though a single skin wall must be scary. Plus it seems there is a
radiator on that wall- a 'short cut' for escaping heat.

Consult a reputable contractor- they may have some ideas re 'tanking'
the wall, insulation, vapour barrier, dry wall. That should keep the
insulation dry.



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On Monday, 18 December 2017 20:06:01 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 18/12/2017 13:09, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:13:09 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 18/12/2017 04:04, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 15:17:58 UTC, Andrew wrote:

Damp shouldn't be a problem if the insulation is on the interior and coated with ali foil on the warm interior side.

The science on this is - complicated.

really it isn't, but it's not obvious. Most people seem to think damp gets in from the outside.


Perhaps I should have added that *I* find it complicated :-)

A while back I made the mistake of reading this:

https://www.bre.co.uk/page.jsp?id=3397

and in particular this:

https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pd...ure-review.pdf

Everything seems to be an indeterminate risk, benefit, un/intended
consequence or cost.

Yes in that whatever approach you take there are ways for things to go wrong. But the simple act of placing your VB on the warm side wipes out the overwhelmingly largest risk. Since things going wrong is still a very slight risk, insulating in a way that can be undone if essential has its merits, a principle I've followed here.

And while I'd agree that damp in most circumstances comes from inside,
understanding how it moves through an unventilated building takes some
doing IMHO.

All I can do is disagree. The physics is known and not complex, what gets people sometimes is that it's not what people tend to initially imagine. In short, damp moves from the interior to the exterior and evaporates.


NT

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 01:00:40 UTC, jim wrote:
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0

"This video is unavailable"


IOW he didn't watch it... It was a copy & paste "kwote"

yes, as I said. Well done for getting one thing right.

(see my
earlier response)...

why? It's as stupid as most of your posts.


NT

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 01:00:40 UTC, jim wrote:
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:

I just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kG5D-GSL0

"This video is unavailable"


IOW he didn't watch it... It was a copy & paste "kwote"

yes, as I said. Well done for getting one thing right.

(see my
earlier response)...

why? It's as stupid as most of your posts.


NT


Sstf

--
Jim K


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