Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

newshound wrote:

found I can save over £300 pa

Is that due to not having shopped around for years, or having relatively
large consumption?

On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.
I got £30 last time and got the cheapest fixed tariff available at the time.
It works because the switching site gets paid by the supply company,
flipper get paid twice, once by them once by you.
I got a percentage of what the switcher got paid so we were both in
profit and happy.

dennis@home wrote:

Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ... good luck getting a penny back once you tell that tale of
woe to your bank.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

Eh? Another thing you know nothing about. They have just switched my
supplier to the best deal they could find. Effort on my part? Zero.

I do realise it's not in the spirit of DIY to get it done for you. But
it's all too easy to just let these things run with your current supplier.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ... good luck getting a penny back once you tell that tale of
woe to your bank.

Which applies equally to anyone you've given that authority to.

--
*I dropped out of communism class because of lousy Marx.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ...

Which applies equally to anyone you've given that authority to.

Going back to the "Meter maids" thread, it seems you badly phrased it,
it wasn't just me that read it as you giving flipper your online banking
credentials so that they could setup new direct debits from your bank to
the energy supplier each time they flipped you.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ...

Which applies equally to anyone you've given that authority to.

Going back to the "Meter maids" thread, it seems you badly phrased it,
it wasn't just me that read it as you giving flipper your online banking
credentials so that they could setup new direct debits from your bank to
the energy supplier each time they flipped you.

That's what they do. Up to the individual if they rather not allow this.

But trivially easy to set up a bank account just for this purpose. Which
is what I've done.

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/12/2017 21:50, F wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts
only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.


Just make sure that the saving is real and factor in that you may have
to pay a penalty for leaving an existing fixed price contract.

The last time they sent me a notification the cheaper small energy
company was having problems with the regulator with respect to billing
and when factoring in the penalties associated with leaving an existing
contract early the potential saving was less than £10 per annum.

Although the cheapenergyclub is a lot better in providing information on
your current tarrif (if you have told them when your contract ends etc.)
they still can base the savings on the misleading industry standard
calculation.

Say, if your contract still has 3 months to run they will calculate the
12 months with your existing supplier as 3 months at the rate you are
currently paying plus 9 months at the supplier's higher standard rate.
They then compare this with a new 12 months contract from another
supplier. It doesn't take into account that someone sensible wouldn't
be caught paying a high standard rate for 9 months.

Note that even when moving between tariffs from the same supplier the
SAME misleading calculation is used to show the savings. Scottish Power
are very good at suggesting to their customers that their recently
introduced tariff could save £100s even though it is more expensive than
the tariff you currently are on.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 16/12/2017 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Eh? Another thing you know nothing about. They have just switched my
supplier to the best deal they could find. Effort on my part? Zero.

Don't you have to supply them with up-to-date consumption figures? When
a company has a daily standing charge and a unit charge then how you use
energy can make a big difference.

The best deal for you may not be the best deal for me if our energy
consumption figures are different. Again, if you circumstances change,
consumption wise, the best deal based on consumption a year ago may not
be the best deal now because of a decrease or increase of energy.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

Don't you have to supply them with up-to-date consumption figures?

Presumably they also have the password for your energy supplier account?

On 16/12/2017 12:29, alan_m wrote:
On 15/12/2017 21:50, F wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.


Just make sure that the saving is real and factor in that you may have
to pay a penalty for leaving an existing fixed price contract.

The last time they sent me a notification the cheaper small energy
company was having problems with the regulator with respect to billing
and when factoring in the penalties associated with leaving an existing
contract early the potential saving was less than £10 per annum.

Although the cheapenergyclub is a lot better in providing information on
your current tarrif (if you have told them when your contract ends etc.)
they still can base the savings on the misleading industry standard
calculation.

Say, if your contract still has 3 months to run they will calculate the
12 months with your existing supplier as 3 months at the rate you are
currently paying plus 9 months at the supplier's higher standard rate.
They then compare this with a new 12 months contract from another
supplier.Â* It doesn't take into account that someone sensible wouldn't
be caught paying a high standard rate for 9 months.

Note that even when moving between tariffs from the same supplier the
SAME misleading calculation is used to show the savings.Â* Scottish Power
are very good at suggesting to their customers that their recently
introduced tariff could save £100s even though it is more expensive than
the tariff you currently are on.

Any automated system like this needs a quick check before accepting what
it's suggesting. Exit penalties are a pretty obvious check.

The point is that you're alerted to possible savings automatically.

--
F

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

--
F

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2017 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Eh? Another thing you know nothing about. They have just switched my
supplier to the best deal they could find. Effort on my part? Zero.

Don't you have to supply them with up-to-date consumption figures? When
a company has a daily standing charge and a unit charge then how you use
energy can make a big difference.

They can look that up themselves since they have log on details for both
my gas and electricity accounts. All part of the service I'm paying for.

The best deal for you may not be the best deal for me if our energy
consumption figures are different. Again, if you circumstances change,
consumption wise, the best deal based on consumption a year ago may not
be the best deal now because of a decrease or increase of energy.

Making it even more difficult to to a DIY decision.

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

It appears from many on line postings that Flipper may only be saving
people money if they have been on "standard rate"in the first place.
They appear to be using the same misleading industry standard way of
calculation the savings so 4 times a year they calculate your "savings"
and switch based on these figures leaving you to pay any penalty exit fees.

Your saving may not have been real and if you haven't bothered to check
you could be paying too much.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

Oh dear.

It appears from many on line postings that Flipper may only be saving
people money if they have been on "standard rate"in the first place.
They appear to be using the same misleading industry standard way of
calculation the savings so 4 times a year they calculate your "savings"
and switch based on these figures leaving you to pay any penalty exit
fees.

Nothing about that in the article. They changed me to the best deal they
could find on a fixed for one year contract. At the end of the year
changed the supplier - obviously not as big a saving as changing the first
time, but better than staying with the existing company.

Your saving may not have been real and if you haven't bothered to check
you could be paying too much.

My saving was very real. Of course I could have done it all myself. But
when I here tales of cashback and commission going to various sites, I'm
still happy I didn't enter that minefield.

--
*Venison for dinner again? Oh deer!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

Oh dear.

It's new owner is Wessex Water, a utility company owned by a Malaysian
power company.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

--
F

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts
only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.


Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.
I got £30 last time and got the cheapest fixed tariff available at the
time.
It works because the switching site gets paid by the supply company,
flipper get paid twice, once by them once by you.
I got a percentage of what the switcher got paid so we were both in profit
and happy.

I'm getting paid $250 to change to a supplier with the cheapest power for
me.

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a
while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.

Mine is.

On 17/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.


As they are the cheapest available and you get cash back they must offer
the best deal.

Maybe flipper doesn't include all the deals like MSE does?

You don't get cash back on all the deals on MSE because with some of the
suppliers you can *only* switch to them by going to their web site or
using the phone so they probably aren't on flipper in the first place.

However MSE will tell you about them without you having to tick extra
boxes to include them like uswitch, etc.

On 17/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.

Some of the best deals don't come with cashback, some do and that's
something I take into account.

I've just changed to Bulb. They offered the best deal and they were
giving £100 cashback at the time. The £100 was credited to my account on
the day they took over and they've transferred it out into my bank account.

If you're interested, check them out (bulb.co.uk/refer/frank9046 -
referral link). You get £50, I get £50, there are no exit fees and they
refund any exit fees you have to pay to leave your current supplier.

--
F

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.


As they are the cheapest available and you get cash back they must offer
the best deal.

Why not give you a cheaper price direct?

Maybe flipper doesn't include all the deals like MSE does?

I dunno. Everyone seems to have a different take on what is best. Same as
insurance. But as with that, no one size fits all.

You don't get cash back on all the deals on MSE because with some of the
suppliers you can *only* switch to them by going to their web site or
using the phone so they probably aren't on flipper in the first place.

They are probably trying to avoid paying commission to a third party.
The main beauty of Flipper (to me) is that it doesn't take commission from
a supplier, but charges you upfront.

However MSE will tell you about them without you having to tick extra
boxes to include them like uswitch, etc.

As I said the whole thing is a minefield. To me, at least.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the
companies that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you
think about it.

Some of the best deals don't come with cashback, some do and that's
something I take into account.

I've just changed to Bulb. They offered the best deal and they were
giving £100 cashback at the time. The £100 was credited to my account on
the day they took over and they've transferred it out into my bank
account.

If you're interested, check them out (bulb.co.uk/refer/frank9046 -
referral link). You get £50, I get £50, there are no exit fees and they
refund any exit fees you have to pay to leave your current supplier.

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business. Although Flipper did offer you an
incentive to direct new customers to them, which I don't like either. If
you think of it, with very low interest rates for most, 'giving' you
cashback is of little use. I'd rather have it deducted from my monthly
bill. Cashflow is important to most companies so you will be paying
handsomely for that cashback one way or another.

Perhaps I'm very rare in wanting this - hence Flipper failing.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business.

I don't want a fluffy toy with my insurance, to me that sort of thing
just shows they're not focussed on removing unnecessary costs.

If Bulb can afford to bung £100 cashback, that seems higher than most of
the MSE cashbacks, if they can afford an additional £50 referral plus
£50 cashback per new customer, to my mind they could lower their prices
and attract the customers who are shopping around.

On 17/12/2017 11:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about it.


As they are the cheapest available and you get cash back they must offer
the best deal.

Why not give you a cheaper price direct?

Maybe flipper doesn't include all the deals like MSE does?

I dunno. Everyone seems to have a different take on what is best. Same as
insurance. But as with that, no one size fits all.

You don't get cash back on all the deals on MSE because with some of the
suppliers you can *only* switch to them by going to their web site or
using the phone so they probably aren't on flipper in the first place.

They are probably trying to avoid paying commission to a third party.
The main beauty of Flipper (to me) is that it doesn't take commission from
a supplier, but charges you upfront.

So you get the same deal as someone using MSE/uswitch but don't get any
cash back and you pay them to save a couple of minutes and you don't
check its actually the best deal.

Sounds OK to me.

On 17/12/2017 12:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the
companies that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you
think about it.

Some of the best deals don't come with cashback, some do and that's
something I take into account.

I've just changed to Bulb. They offered the best deal and they were
giving £100 cashback at the time. The £100 was credited to my account on
the day they took over and they've transferred it out into my bank
account.

If you're interested, check them out (bulb.co.uk/refer/frank9046 -
referral link). You get £50, I get £50, there are no exit fees and they
refund any exit fees you have to pay to leave your current supplier.

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business. Although Flipper did offer you an
incentive to direct new customers to them, which I don't like either. If
you think of it, with very low interest rates for most, 'giving' you
cashback is of little use. I'd rather have it deducted from my monthly
bill. Cashflow is important to most companies so you will be paying
handsomely for that cashback one way or another.

Perhaps I'm very rare in wanting this - hence Flipper failing.


flipper is bound to fail as their business model is faulty.
You can get the same or better deals(1) for free so why would you pay
them to do it?

1: Some like MSE negotiate group discounts with suppliers to get cheaper
deals if a lot of people switch to them.
These deals are not available to the likes of flipper but they could
negotiate their own if they wanted to.
AFAIK they haven't in the past.

On 17/12/2017 13:02, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business.

I don't want a fluffy toy with my insurance, to me that sort of thing
just shows they're not focussed on removing unnecessary costs.

If Bulb can afford to bung £100 cashback, that seems higher than most of
the MSE cashbacks, if they can afford an additional £50 referral plus
£50 cashback per new customer, to my mind they could lower their prices
and attract the customers who are shopping around.

The cash back is more attractive to low users than a cheaper rate.
Maybe they want the low users and not the big users?

Its all down to marketing, finding something to attract your target market.

On 17/12/2017 11:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The main beauty of Flipper (to me) is that it doesn't take commission from
a supplier, but charges you upfront.

If flipper is switching you to the same suppliers that do give a
commission, which results in a third party returning some of it in the
form of a cash-back, then flipper will be taking the same commission and
not passing it on to you.

With money from both customers and suppliers I wonder what went wrong
with their business model and that they had to go into administration
for a few weeks.

Cashback often can make the difference of £25 or £50 extra saving
depending on which site you use to switch. Going directly to the
suppliers web site and you lose out on this extra discount. I guess its
much like insurance, a discount for new customers in the hope that at
the end of a year contract you cannot be bothered to look around to see
if anything is cheaper.

I'm much more wary of sites that offer cashback on one off purchases -
usually from retailers that charge more than their competitors in the
first place or aimed at people that have a brand loyalty for lifestyle
products.


As I said the whole thing is a minefield. To me, at least.


Yes, just taking one of the suggestions in this thread and using the
same information on energy consumption on two sites for the same energy
company today I could either save £47 or £72 per year (mainly on
cashback and a saving of around £2 month on the actual energy). The
gamble with this supplier is that it isn't a fixed price contract so the
tariff could rise soon.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
...
On 17/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a
while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the companies
that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you think about
it.

Some of the best deals don't come with cashback, some do and that's
something I take into account.

I've been so aggressive at using the cheapest supplier that the signup
credit is now usually the reason to change. And with the most recent
change, the new supplier was already the cheapest supplier. They were
happy to pay me $250 to use them, much more than the usual saving
when changing supplier if you have been chasing the cheapest for years.

No contract either, I am free to leave any time I find a better deal.

I've just changed to Bulb. They offered the best deal and they were giving
£100 cashback at the time. The £100 was credited to my account on the day
they took over and they've transferred it out into my bank account.

If you're interested, check them out (bulb.co.uk/refer/frank9046 -
referral link). You get £50, I get £50, there are no exit fees and they
refund any exit fees you have to pay to leave your current supplier.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
They said in their blurb they didn't. But perhaps none of the
companies that do cashback are offering the best deal anyway. If you
think about it.

Some of the best deals don't come with cashback, some do and that's
something I take into account.

I've just changed to Bulb. They offered the best deal and they were
giving £100 cashback at the time. The £100 was credited to my account on
the day they took over and they've transferred it out into my bank
account.

If you're interested, check them out (bulb.co.uk/refer/frank9046 -
referral link). You get £50, I get £50, there are no exit fees and they
refund any exit fees you have to pay to leave your current supplier.

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business. Although Flipper did offer you an
incentive to direct new customers to them, which I don't like either. If
you think of it, with very low interest rates for most, 'giving' you
cashback is of little use. I'd rather have it deducted from my monthly
bill. Cashflow is important to most companies so you will be paying
handsomely for that cashback one way or another.

I don't. Cheapest rates, no contract, decent
efficient call center, not that I need to call them.

Perhaps I'm very rare in wanting this - hence Flipper failing.

Or not enough find their offer attractive, anyway.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 17/12/2017 11:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The main beauty of Flipper (to me) is that it doesn't take commission
from
a supplier, but charges you upfront.

If flipper is switching you to the same suppliers that do give a
commission, which results in a third party returning some of it in the
form of a cash-back, then flipper will be taking the same commission and
not passing it on to you.

With money from both customers and suppliers I wonder what went wrong with
their business model and that they had to go into administration for a few
weeks.

Presumably not enough chose to use them.

Cashback often can make the difference of £25 or £50 extra saving
depending on which site you use to switch. Going directly to the suppliers
web site and you lose out on this extra discount. I guess its much like
insurance, a discount for new customers in the hope that at the end of a
year contract you cannot be bothered to look around to see if anything is
cheaper.

I've never had a contract.

I'm much more wary of sites that offer cashback on one off purchases -
usually from retailers that charge more than their competitors in the
first place or aimed at people that have a brand loyalty for lifestyle
products.


As I said the whole thing is a minefield. To me, at least.


Yes, just taking one of the suggestions in this thread and using the same
information on energy consumption on two sites for the same energy company
today I could either save £47 or £72 per year (mainly on cashback and a
saving of around £2 month on the actual energy). The gamble with this
supplier is that it isn't a fixed price contract so the tariff could rise
soon.

On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Having skimmed the responses to date, I suppose I'd have to say I trust
Which? (who are very open about getting kickbacks), am a bit more
cautious about Moneysavingexpert although it is certainly a site I have
looked at in the past, and would be slightly more careful about Flipper.

Fair comment that I have not checked the market for three or four years.
My consumption is probably a bit higher than average, but not "mansion"
scale. *Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable rate"
tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous deal expired.

The other interesting finding (to me) was that duel fuel deals are no
longer generally competitive. If you don't mind taking a chance on an
unknown name rather than one of the big six, then going for small
players who specialise only in one market perhaps makes more sense.
These days, with paperless online systems and DD, the old savings from a
"single bill" and "single payment" are evaporating.

And all credit to Which? for headlining the point about duel fuel.

On 17/12/2017 19:59, newshound wrote:

*Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable rate"
tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous deal expired.


I get the impression that a company will offer a good deal in order to
gain 100,000s of new customers and then not have another competitive
deal until they have lost X% of those new customers. They can make more
money from customer inertia - customers not realising they have been
moved to higher tariff for 3 months or more.

The other trick that they often play is after, say, 6 months suggest you
should move to another of their saver tariffs without paying a penalty.
They will suggest that these tariffs save you money compared to the
tariff you are on but in reality they are more expensive. They use the
industry standard way of calculating your YEARLY spend on the two
tariffs - one of which will include 6 months of energy at the higher
standard tariff . This may result in a customer staying with the
supplier for a number of years because each switch results in a new 12
month contract with penalties if changing to another supplier.

In my last two moves the company I was with was one of the cheapest at
the time but at the end of the year any followup fixed price contracts
with them tended to be the more expensive in the marketplace.

By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period. When I switched away from British Gas a good number of
years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract penalties.
The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were taken as two
separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank account.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/12/2017 13:02, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

What I wanted was something upfront and honest. Not one who gave 'free
gifts' etc to try and get your business.

I don't want a fluffy toy with my insurance, to me that sort of thing
just shows they're not focussed on removing unnecessary costs.

If Bulb can afford to bung £100 cashback, that seems higher than most of
the MSE cashbacks, if they can afford an additional £50 referral plus
£50 cashback per new customer, to my mind they could lower their prices
and attract the customers who are shopping around.

As far as I'm concerned, the cashback is the same as 'lower prices'. I
just happen to get it in a lump sum. With the way Bulb have treated the
cashback I could leave them tomorrow if there was someone cheaper.

It's a jungle out there and I'll take any (legal) option open to me to
lower my energy costs.

--
F

F wrote:

It's a jungle out there and I'll take any (legal) option open to me to
lower my energy costs.

carpetbagger! :-)