Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

newshound wrote:

found I can save over £300 pa

Is that due to not having shopped around for years, or having relatively
large consumption?

On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.
I got £30 last time and got the cheapest fixed tariff available at the time.
It works because the switching site gets paid by the supply company,
flipper get paid twice, once by them once by you.
I got a percentage of what the switcher got paid so we were both in
profit and happy.

dennis@home wrote:

Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ... good luck getting a penny back once you tell that tale of
woe to your bank.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

And if Flipper get hacked, you've given them authority over your bank
account ... good luck getting a penny back once you tell that tale of
woe to your bank.

Which applies equally to anyone you've given that authority to.

--
*I dropped out of communism class because of lousy Marx.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.

Eh? Another thing you know nothing about. They have just switched my
supplier to the best deal they could find. Effort on my part? Zero.

I do realise it's not in the spirit of DIY to get it done for you. But
it's all too easy to just let these things run with your current supplier.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Eh? Another thing you know nothing about. They have just switched my
supplier to the best deal they could find. Effort on my part? Zero.

Don't you have to supply them with up-to-date consumption figures? When
a company has a daily standing charge and a unit charge then how you use
energy can make a big difference.

The best deal for you may not be the best deal for me if our energy
consumption figures are different. Again, if you circumstances change,
consumption wise, the best deal based on consumption a year ago may not
be the best deal now because of a decrease or increase of energy.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts
only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.


Not very good value as you can get cash back for switching to a cheaper
supplier and it doesn't take any more effort than using flipper anyway.
I got £30 last time and got the cheapest fixed tariff available at the
time.
It works because the switching site gets paid by the supply company,
flipper get paid twice, once by them once by you.
I got a percentage of what the switcher got paid so we were both in profit
and happy.

I'm getting paid $250 to change to a supplier with the cheapest power for
me.

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 15:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper
tariff.

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good
value.

Why pay when it's easy enough to use the MSE club, diy the change and
collect, as often as not, cashback for switching?

I don't want 'cashback' Just a way of concealing the true charges.

But you using Flipper won't stop cashback. Flipper will continue to
receive it, along with your £25.

--
F

On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

It appears from many on line postings that Flipper may only be saving
people money if they have been on "standard rate"in the first place.
They appear to be using the same misleading industry standard way of
calculation the savings so 4 times a year they calculate your "savings"
and switch based on these figures leaving you to pay any penalty exit fees.

Your saving may not have been real and if you haven't bothered to check
you could be paying too much.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

Oh dear.

It appears from many on line postings that Flipper may only be saving
people money if they have been on "standard rate"in the first place.
They appear to be using the same misleading industry standard way of
calculation the savings so 4 times a year they calculate your "savings"
and switch based on these figures leaving you to pay any penalty exit
fees.

Nothing about that in the article. They changed me to the best deal they
could find on a fixed for one year contract. At the end of the year
changed the supplier - obviously not as big a saving as changing the first
time, but better than staying with the existing company.

Your saving may not have been real and if you haven't bothered to check
you could be paying too much.

My saving was very real. Of course I could have done it all myself. But
when I here tales of cashback and commission going to various sites, I'm
still happy I didn't enter that minefield.

--
*Venison for dinner again? Oh deer!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/12/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2017 00:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I use Flipper. Does it all for you - for an annual fee. To me, good value.


You may want to reconsider you use of Flipper

http://www.yourmoney.com/household-b...dministration/

Oh dear.

It's new owner is Wessex Water, a utility company owned by a Malaysian
power company.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/12/2017 21:50, F wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts
only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and there's
even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.


Just make sure that the saving is real and factor in that you may have
to pay a penalty for leaving an existing fixed price contract.

The last time they sent me a notification the cheaper small energy
company was having problems with the regulator with respect to billing
and when factoring in the penalties associated with leaving an existing
contract early the potential saving was less than £10 per annum.

Although the cheapenergyclub is a lot better in providing information on
your current tarrif (if you have told them when your contract ends etc.)
they still can base the savings on the misleading industry standard
calculation.

Say, if your contract still has 3 months to run they will calculate the
12 months with your existing supplier as 3 months at the rate you are
currently paying plus 9 months at the supplier's higher standard rate.
They then compare this with a new 12 months contract from another
supplier. It doesn't take into account that someone sensible wouldn't
be caught paying a high standard rate for 9 months.

Note that even when moving between tariffs from the same supplier the
SAME misleading calculation is used to show the savings. Scottish Power
are very good at suggesting to their customers that their recently
introduced tariff could save £100s even though it is more expensive than
the tariff you currently are on.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 16/12/2017 12:29, alan_m wrote:
On 15/12/2017 21:50, F wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over
£300 pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper,
direct debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs
rather than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price
contracts only.

Sign up at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub and
there's even less pain: you get an email when there's a cheaper tariff.


Just make sure that the saving is real and factor in that you may have
to pay a penalty for leaving an existing fixed price contract.

The last time they sent me a notification the cheaper small energy
company was having problems with the regulator with respect to billing
and when factoring in the penalties associated with leaving an existing
contract early the potential saving was less than £10 per annum.

Although the cheapenergyclub is a lot better in providing information on
your current tarrif (if you have told them when your contract ends etc.)
they still can base the savings on the misleading industry standard
calculation.

Say, if your contract still has 3 months to run they will calculate the
12 months with your existing supplier as 3 months at the rate you are
currently paying plus 9 months at the supplier's higher standard rate.
They then compare this with a new 12 months contract from another
supplier.Â* It doesn't take into account that someone sensible wouldn't
be caught paying a high standard rate for 9 months.

Note that even when moving between tariffs from the same supplier the
SAME misleading calculation is used to show the savings.Â* Scottish Power
are very good at suggesting to their customers that their recently
introduced tariff could save £100s even though it is more expensive than
the tariff you currently are on.

Any automated system like this needs a quick check before accepting what
it's suggesting. Exit penalties are a pretty obvious check.

The point is that you're alerted to possible savings automatically.

--
F

On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts only.

Having skimmed the responses to date, I suppose I'd have to say I trust
Which? (who are very open about getting kickbacks), am a bit more
cautious about Moneysavingexpert although it is certainly a site I have
looked at in the past, and would be slightly more careful about Flipper.

Fair comment that I have not checked the market for three or four years.
My consumption is probably a bit higher than average, but not "mansion"
scale. *Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable rate"
tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous deal expired.

The other interesting finding (to me) was that duel fuel deals are no
longer generally competitive. If you don't mind taking a chance on an
unknown name rather than one of the big six, then going for small
players who specialise only in one market perhaps makes more sense.
These days, with paperless online systems and DD, the old savings from a
"single bill" and "single payment" are evaporating.

And all credit to Which? for headlining the point about duel fuel.

On 17/12/2017 19:59, newshound wrote:

*Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable rate"
tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous deal expired.


I get the impression that a company will offer a good deal in order to
gain 100,000s of new customers and then not have another competitive
deal until they have lost X% of those new customers. They can make more
money from customer inertia - customers not realising they have been
moved to higher tariff for 3 months or more.

The other trick that they often play is after, say, 6 months suggest you
should move to another of their saver tariffs without paying a penalty.
They will suggest that these tariffs save you money compared to the
tariff you are on but in reality they are more expensive. They use the
industry standard way of calculating your YEARLY spend on the two
tariffs - one of which will include 6 months of energy at the higher
standard tariff . This may result in a customer staying with the
supplier for a number of years because each switch results in a new 12
month contract with penalties if changing to another supplier.

In my last two moves the company I was with was one of the cheapest at
the time but at the end of the year any followup fixed price contracts
with them tended to be the more expensive in the marketplace.

By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period. When I switched away from British Gas a good number of
years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract penalties.
The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were taken as two
separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank account.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/12/2017 20:56, alan_m wrote:
On 17/12/2017 19:59, newshound wrote:

*Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable
rate" tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous
deal expired.


I get the impression that a company will offer a good deal in order to
gain 100,000s of new customers and then not have another competitive
deal until they have lost X% of those new customers.Â* They can make more
money from customer inertia - customers not realising they have been
moved to higher tariff for 3 months or more.

The other trick that they often play is after, say, 6 months suggest you
should move to another of their saver tariffs without paying a penalty.
They will suggest that these tariffs save you money compared to the
tariff you are on but in reality they are more expensive. They use the
industry standard way of calculating your YEARLY spend on the two
tariffs - one of which will include 6 months of energy at the higher
standard tariff . This may result in a customer staying with the
supplier for a number of years because each switch results in a new 12
month contract with penalties if changing to another supplier.

In my last two moves the company I was with was one of the cheapest at
the time but at the end of the year any followup fixed price contracts
with them tended to be the more expensive in the marketplace.

By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period.Â* When I switched away from British Gas a good number of
years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract penalties.
The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were taken as two
separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank account.



Thanks for the warning, will look out for that!

On 17/12/2017 21:51, newshound wrote:
On 17/12/2017 20:56, alan_m wrote:

By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period.Â* When I switched away from British Gas a good number of
years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract
penalties. The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were
taken as two separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank
account.



Thanks for the warning, will look out for that!

Switching up to 49 days before the end of a contract negates any exit
fees. So should avoid that problem?

--
F

On 17/12/2017 23:55, F wrote:
On 17/12/2017 21:51, newshound wrote:
On 17/12/2017 20:56, alan_m wrote:

By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period.Â* When I switched away from British Gas a good number
of years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract
penalties. The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were
taken as two separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank
account.



Thanks for the warning, will look out for that!

Switching up to 49 days before the end of a contract negates any exit
fees. So should avoid that problem?



It should do, but in my case BG made a mistake and the money was
refunded after I'd noticed that they had taken it As it it didn't
appear on any bill it could have been easily missed if bank statements
were not thoroughly checked.

The other gotcha may be with a dual fuel deal in that switching of the
electric and gas were at different dates and hence if the contract was
for 12 months rather than a fixed end date there could be up to a month
difference in the end of contract dates.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
newshound writes
On 17/12/2017 20:56, alan_m wrote:
On 17/12/2017 19:59, newshound wrote:

*Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable
rate" tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous
deal expired.

I get the impression that a company will offer a good deal in order
to gain 100,000s of new customers and then not have another
competitive deal until they have lost X% of those new customers.*
They can make more money from customer inertia - customers not
realising they have been moved to higher tariff for 3 months or more.
The other trick that they often play is after, say, 6 months suggest
you should move to another of their saver tariffs without paying a
penalty. They will suggest that these tariffs save you money compared
to the tariff you are on but in reality they are more expensive. They
use the industry standard way of calculating your YEARLY spend on the
two tariffs - one of which will include 6 months of energy at the
higher standard tariff . This may result in a customer staying with
the supplier for a number of years because each switch results in a
new 12 month contract with penalties if changing to another supplier.
In my last two moves the company I was with was one of the cheapest
at the time but at the end of the year any followup fixed price
contracts with them tended to be the more expensive in the marketplace.
By the way, if you pay by DD check your bank statements during the
switch period.* When I switched away from British Gas a good number of
years ago they erroneously applied the early end of contract
penalties. The penalty amounts NEVER appeared on any bill but were
taken as two separate DD payments (dual fuel) straight from my bank account.

Thanks for the warning, will look out for that!
Me too as I've just left BG (Sainsburys Energy)
--
bert

On 17/12/2017 19:59, newshound wrote:
On 15/12/2017 20:31, newshound wrote:
Been dual fuel with Ovo (Which? best customer feedback) for a while,
decided to check the Which? switch site and found I can save over £300
pa on two separate fixed price contracts. Internet, no paper, direct
debit of course.

Relatively painless apart from the hassle of setting up two DDs rather
than one. Nice to have the easy option to view fixed price contracts
only.

Having skimmed the responses to date, I suppose I'd have to say I trust
Which? (who are very open about getting kickbacks), am a bit more
cautious about Moneysavingexpert although it is certainly a site I have
looked at in the past, and would be slightly more careful about Flipper.

Fair comment that I have not checked the market for three or four years.
My consumption is probably a bit higher than average, but not "mansion"
scale. *Slightly* surprised not to find Ovo not offering something else
reasonably competitive to what I guess is their "standard variable rate"
tariff which kicked in a couple of weeks ago when my previous deal expired.

Probably because you are not a new customer. OVO was the best fixed deal
for me, but previously Sainsburys, NPower, EDF and a couple of others
have been - all but one for one time only, then the repeat price has
been way above what I can get elsewhere.

The other interesting finding (to me) was that duel fuel deals are no
longer generally competitive. If you don't mind taking a chance on an
unknown name rather than one of the big six, then going for small
players who specialise only in one market perhaps makes more sense.
These days, with paperless online systems and DD, the old savings from a
"single bill" and "single payment" are evaporating.

Single bills would have been cheaper for me, but at only about £10 a
year less, I decided that covenience would win out and went for the dual
fuel offering.

SteveW