Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

Christian.


DIY Work
The guidance says that for DIY work one way of showing compliance would be
to
follow the IEE guidance or guidance in DIY manuals and where prudent have
the
work inspected and tested. It is to be presumed that persons carrying out
other than
minor work, would be required to notify the Local Authority before
commencement
and notify them on completion and arrange with them to have it inspected and
tested
by the Local Authorities inspector.

From:
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf


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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:43:49 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Christian McArdle" randomly hit
the keyboard and produced:
(MG) wrote:

Does anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

It hasn't been published yet. Once it is, it will apply about 3 to 6
months later.

The ODPM is edging towards a lot more self-certification. If the work
is done DIY, then either a Building Notice will need to be submitted
to the council, or a certificate from a suitably qualified person or
trade body will be required to state that the work complies with the
requirements.

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

It's likely that the fees will be in line with the replacement window
charge of between £50-100.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

And from the BCO's point of view....

I went to a NIEC (not sure that's entirely correct) seminar for BCO's two
weeks ago on Part P. In the main, like FENSA, it's hoped it will be a
collection of certificates issued by competant.approved persons/companies,
but the nightmare for BCO like me is that its DIY'ers work that we will have
to inspect, when many BCO's like me have wiring up a plug as the limit of
our electrical knowlege.

And it will cost you £300 or so..... So get your DIY work done before it's
implemented!

RT




"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

Christian.

Personally, I'm inclined not to give a monkey's - I will just follow
the IEEE regulations and do what I've always done. This IMO is
Blairite regulation gone mad and they can stuff it.

Now that's a personal opinion and I'm not recommending anyone else do so
without careful thought.

AFAICS the only time it's likely to be an issue is when selling. If
selling, I suppose it's possible to get an inspection done then?
Anyone know different? Assuming so, if buyers markey, I'll pay, if
seller's market, buyer can blinkin pay if they want the certs that badly.

I really can't see how they are going to enforce this at all.

Up the revolution!

Timbo

In uk.d-i-y, Tim S wrote:
Personally, I'm inclined not to give a monkey's - I will just follow
the IEEE regulations and do what I've always done.

That'll do fine for designing Ethernet gear; for domestic wiring you may
prefer the IEE regs ;-)

AFAICS the only time it's likely to be an issue is when selling. If
selling, I suppose it's possible to get an inspection done then?
Anyone know different? Assuming so, if buyers markey, I'll pay, if
seller's market, buyer can blinkin pay if they want the certs that badly.

Yes, buying and selling time is the main time any inspections will get
done in practice. And as you suggest, there's a makework scheme by which
the buyer's solicitor/conveyancer sends a standard set of queries including
sthg like "Can the vendor confirm that all electrical work has been
carried out under the relevant Building Regulations" and the seller's
solicitor replies (or at least mine will) "the vendor is not aware of
any material departures fron the relevant Building Regulations, but the
buyer must satisfy themselves at their own expense as to the state of
the electrical installation". Then both solicitors can put another few
minutes' chargeable work on their bills (even though this is all standard
boilerplate) and they're both happy.

I really can't see how they are going to enforce this at all.

By appealing to the venality of the less repatable members of the trade,
I'm afraid. "Ooh, what's that missus? Your lights keep going out? No
problem, we'll have someone round in the morning". Cue sunrise. Plausible
rogue arrives, sucks teeth meaningfully, "I think I've found the fault"
(pushes button back on MCB) "but you're really going to need a full
inspection. If it turns out you need a full rewire, we'll refund the cost
of the inspection. Trust us, we're honest tradesmen, and here's a
sistificate that says so." (Not to malign all sparkies: there are plenty
who are anything but ripoff merchants; but the 'self-certification' route
increases the temptation to talk up the intrinsic difficulty & danger of
the simplest electrical job...)

Stefek

River Tramp wrote:
And from the BCO's point of view....

I went to a NIEC (not sure that's entirely correct) seminar for BCO's two
weeks ago on Part P. In the main, like FENSA, it's hoped it will be a
collection of certificates issued by competant.approved persons/companies,
but the nightmare for BCO like me is that its DIY'ers work that we will have
to inspect, when many BCO's like me have wiring up a plug as the limit of
our electrical knowlege.

Well, that really inspires confidence that the safety of our homes
(which is what this is all about) is going to improve. Surely the LAs
employing some qualified electricians/electrical engineers would be the
way to go?


And it will cost you £300 or so..... So get your DIY work done before it's
implemented!

IOW, like Christian said, another stealth tax.

Parish

--
Governments are like nappies; they should both be changed regularly, and
for the same reason.


RT

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:51:46 +0000, Hugo Nebula
wrote:

It's likely that the fees will be in line with the replacement window
charge of between £50-100.

Not according to the manager at the local council office who will be
responsible for implementing the new regs when they do come about.

It will depend on what needs to be tested. If it's simple then the
charge may be in the region of £70. However if it is a full system
test (for example after changing a consumer unit or adding new ring
mains) then you could be looking at £300+.

Make no mistake, this is going to decimate the industry big time. And
as usually happens when governments get tough the black economy will
flourish - the householder will have a choice along the lines of "well
mate, we can do this by the book for £300, or alternatively if you pay
me in cash the job will be done just as competently for £50 - which
option would you prefer?".

For once in my life, and the first time ever, I am contemplating the
option of moving into the black economy because of part P regs which
threaten to take away a portion of my livelihood. That's not something
I feel very strongly about doing because I am very much a law abider
and always have been, but if it comes down to being able to put food
on the table for my family I'll do what I have to do, and sod the
government.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:38:55 +0000, stefek.zaba wrote:

In uk.d-i-y, Tim S wrote:

That'll do fine for designing Ethernet gear; for domestic wiring you may
prefer the IEE regs ;-)

Oops - butterfingers (can I blame the laptop's keyboard?)

Yes, buying and selling time is the main time any inspections will get
done in practice. And as you suggest, there's a makework scheme by which
the buyer's solicitor/conveyancer sends a standard set of queries including
sthg like "Can the vendor confirm that all electrical work has been
carried out under the relevant Building Regulations" and the seller's
solicitor replies (or at least mine will) "the vendor is not aware of
any material departures fron the relevant Building Regulations, but the
buyer must satisfy themselves at their own expense as to the state of
the electrical installation". Then both solicitors can put another few
minutes' chargeable work on their bills (even though this is all standard
boilerplate) and they're both happy.


Good, very very good. I'm going to write that down :-

I really can't see how they are going to enforce this at all.

By appealing to the venality of the less repatable members of the trade,
I'm afraid. "Ooh, what's that missus? Your lights keep going out? No
problem, we'll have someone round in the morning". Cue sunrise. Plausible
rogue arrives, sucks teeth meaningfully, "I think I've found the fault"
(pushes button back on MCB) "but you're really going to need a full
inspection. If it turns out you need a full rewire, we'll refund the cost
of the inspection. Trust us, we're honest tradesmen, and here's a
sistificate that says so." (Not to malign all sparkies: there are plenty
who are anything but ripoff merchants; but the 'self-certification' route
increases the temptation to talk up the intrinsic difficulty & danger of
the simplest electrical job...)


Righty ho - business as usual for me then...

Timbo

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:39:58 +0000, Parish wrote:

IOW, like Christian said, another stealth tax.

Actually it isn't a stealth tax, strictly speaking. The main reason
for part P being introduced is that the government want all practicing
tradespeople to belong to an organisation. In turn that means that the
Inland Revenue can get hold of a handy list of tradespeople through
the back door, who they can then target and pester for paying more
tax.

But as I've suggested elsewhere, what will happen is that the problem
the government are trying to solve will in fact be worsened by virtue
of the fact that once-honest tradespeople will say "what the hell",
and become part of the black economy instead.

Sir John Harvey Jones once said something rather important which went
along the lines of "frequently legislation is introduced by government
to combat a specific problem, and the nett result of that legislation
is to make the problem much worse".

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:24:55 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:51:46 +0000, Hugo Nebula
wrote:

It's likely that the fees will be in line with the replacement window
charge of between £50-100.

Not according to the manager at the local council office who will be
responsible for implementing the new regs when they do come about.

It will depend on what needs to be tested. If it's simple then the
charge may be in the region of £70. However if it is a full system
test (for example after changing a consumer unit or adding new ring
mains) then you could be looking at £300+.

Make no mistake, this is going to decimate the industry big time. And
as usually happens when governments get tough the black economy will
flourish - the householder will have a choice along the lines of "well
mate, we can do this by the book for £300, or alternatively if you pay
me in cash the job will be done just as competently for £50 - which
option would you prefer?".

For once in my life, and the first time ever, I am contemplating the
option of moving into the black economy because of part P regs which
threaten to take away a portion of my livelihood. That's not something
I feel very strongly about doing because I am very much a law abider
and always have been, but if it comes down to being able to put food
on the table for my family I'll do what I have to do, and sod the
government.


I too am wainting to see just how well enforced Part P will be.
I may have to shell out for the full NICEIC or go for a Central Heating
controls only mini registration or just join everyone else as a 'grey'
electrician.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:50:52 +0000, Dennis Wynes wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

Christian.


DIY Work
The guidance says that for DIY work one way of showing compliance would be
to
follow the IEE guidance or guidance in DIY manuals and where prudent have
the
work inspected and tested. It is to be presumed that persons carrying out
other than
minor work, would be required to notify the Local Authority before
commencement
and notify them on completion and arrange with them to have it inspected and
tested
by the Local Authorities inspector.

From:
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf


"Yeah right". I believe is the expression.

What I can envisage happening is as follows:

1) A slightly bigger segement of the market probably including most small
commercial and the very top end of domestic will only employ registered
electricians. (Already all public & major commercial do this).

2) Almost no one will submit a building notice

3) A proportion of the more repsonsible full time pros will get
qualified/registered.
Just how many will depend on the fees, costs and what the public choose.

4) Initally a good proportion of repsonsible possibly part time
professional electricians will avoid the extra costs of registration and
will see how things go. (i.e. Levels and mechanisms of enforcement, public
perceptions etc.)

5) The cowboys won't even notice the changes in the regs let alone follow
them.

6) The general public will in the most part be totally unaware of the
changes.

7) The charges for registered electricians will increase at least initally
to compensate for their incresed demand.

8) Good DIY will happen.

9) Bad DIY will happen.

I think it unlikely that the government will spend on the public awareness
campaign that might make the above different.

Why does CORGI registration work?
Firstly the residual public perception (RAPIDLY changing) is that British
Gas are the only ones you should let loose on gas. The message that has
taken a long while to get out is any registered fitter is OK (actually
that's a "should be"). In fact the
idea thst there are differing areas or work within gas fitting would not
even score on the scale of public perception.
It works for gas fitting because the public already are (mostly) looking
for professionals. Most people who would tackle many DIY tasks baulk at gas
fitting.
As we know there is still an unregistered segment with a steady trickle
of prosecutions.


Why does it work for FENSA?
I guess because there are relatively few companies who do window
replacement. Most windows are installed by builders or replaced by
specialist companies. The DIY window replacment market is tiny
(you have to go to a BIG B&Q before you can buy windows).
Doubtless there are unregistered companies but we don't see a string of
high profile prosections by the LAs against them.


Why I think it won't work for NICEIC and IOP
There are hundreds of thousands who do minor professional
plumbing and electrical work. There are millions who do DIY on water and
electricity. That's a huge ingrained culture. Banning diy (with
or without a building notice loophole) is just plain nonsense.

Remember when recording a film onto a video and then showing it to your
friends was technically illegal?
How many people remove the CH filling loop after topping up the CH?
The above are examples of unenforcable laws.

The worst case I can envisage is that conveyancing solicitors will require
an Inspection and Test certificate for the electrics which has been
performed by a registered sparky. You'll probably have to pay a few
hundred quid to get one and the same again to fix 'minor' faults but it
will all be part of moving house.

OK if your house burns down you'll be in big trouble - but you would
be anyway 'cos you're house has burnt down.

I am told that in parts of central (not LATIN) continental Europe the
culture is different and most people would not even think about touching
the electrics themselves. But, this is the UK and I strongly suspect that
a culture is harder to modify that what can be done by mere laws alone.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:24:55 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:51:46 +0000, Hugo Nebula
wrote:

It's likely that the fees will be in line with the replacement window
charge of between £50-100.

Not according to the manager at the local council office who will be
responsible for implementing the new regs when they do come about.

It will depend on what needs to be tested. If it's simple then the
charge may be in the region of £70. However if it is a full system
test (for example after changing a consumer unit or adding new ring
mains) then you could be looking at £300+.

Make no mistake, this is going to decimate the industry big time. And
as usually happens when governments get tough the black economy will
flourish - the householder will have a choice along the lines of "well
mate, we can do this by the book for £300, or alternatively if you pay
me in cash the job will be done just as competently for £50 - which
option would you prefer?".

For once in my life, and the first time ever, I am contemplating the
option of moving into the black economy because of part P regs which
threaten to take away a portion of my livelihood. That's not something
I feel very strongly about doing because I am very much a law abider
and always have been, but if it comes down to being able to put food
on the table for my family I'll do what I have to do, and sod the
government.

Sod the government anyway :-)


PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Dennis Wynes wrote:

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Doe anyone have any details on how the new Part P of the building
regulations will affect diy electrical work?

Yes. It will mean you have to pay 300 quid in tax every time you do any
wiring.

Christian.


DIY Work
The guidance says that for DIY work one way of showing compliance would be
to
follow the IEE guidance or guidance in DIY manuals and where prudent have
the
work inspected and tested. It is to be presumed that persons carrying out
other than
minor work, would be required to notify the Local Authority before
commencement
and notify them on completion and arrange with them to have it inspected and
tested
by the Local Authorities inspector.

From:
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf

Can someone clarify something for me? In the above doc, under Notices to
The Local Authority it lists two circumstances where notification is not
required. Should those be interpreted as i) AND ii), or i) OR ii)? If
the latter then, under ii), a DIYer can do everything listed in Table 1
without notifying the LA or getting the work checked by a "competent
person", is that correct?



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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:45:18 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Sod the government anyway :-)

I tend to treat people with the same level of respect they treat me,
so I imagine that's not going to be hard for me to do

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

Well, if it was me I'd be inclined to say that no electrical work has
been done on the property since this regulation came into force, so
no, there is no certificate.

This is what will happen in the vast majority of cases. If the house
burns down because of dodgy wiring, the insurance will still pay
because officially the wiring was in place before the certification
regulation etc. Some insurers will solicit reports about the wiring
condition (ie was it newer than the regulation start date), but I
doubt it because the vast majority of fires WILL show the wiring was
old, so they will have to pay out anyway. My guess is that only if
they suspect the wiring was 'improved' but not checked, will they
investigate further, just like they do with burglary claims where the
claimant inflates the claim amount (ie, adding in enough extra to but
a new carpet etc). Most people will get away with it, a very few
won't.

In short its an undenforcable regulation, but let's not forget, the
point is not to raises standards in the industry (if anything it will
lower them as the grey market gets bigger), but to raise revenue for
Mr Brown. It's a tax, and a very regressive one that will be passed on
to those who buy 'official' electrical services, ie the elderly,
single mothers and anyone else who has a fear of electricity. The rest
of us who can read books with titles like "Home Electrics for Dummies"
will not be affected one little bit.

Just my twopenn'orth.

Dean.



Tim S wrote in message .. .
Personally, I'm inclined not to give a monkey's - I will just follow
the IEEE regulations and do what I've always done. This IMO is
Blairite regulation gone mad and they can stuff it.

Now that's a personal opinion and I'm not recommending anyone else do so
without careful thought.

AFAICS the only time it's likely to be an issue is when selling. If
selling, I suppose it's possible to get an inspection done then?
Anyone know different? Assuming so, if buyers markey, I'll pay, if
seller's market, buyer can blinkin pay if they want the certs that badly.

I really can't see how they are going to enforce this at all.

Up the revolution!

Timbo

In article , PoP wrote:
Actually it isn't a stealth tax, strictly speaking. The main reason
for part P being introduced is that the government want all
practicing tradespeople to belong to an organisation. In turn that
means that the Inland Revenue can get hold of a handy list of
tradespeople through the back door, who they can then target and
pester for paying more tax.

I think that is too cynical. There is a real problem with people who
claim to be electricians not knowing what they are doing - Triton, on
their website, note showers being wired in with 2.5mm cable as being
one of the most common faults - and I think that this is a response
to demands that something should be done. It would have made far more
sense to insist on a full test report when a property is sold; if
your current installation is unsafe and you don't modify it Part P
does nothing. The real cowboys will ignore it, and those most likely
to be affected are the competent honest people in the middle.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On 11 Feb 2004 01:23:29 -0800, Dean wrote:

Well, if it was me I'd be inclined to say that no electrical work has
been done on the property since this regulation came into force, so
no, there is no certificate.


One thing to watch for there, is that I think a change to the colour coding
of the cable is also on the cards at around the same time, so might be an
idea to stock up on T+E cable.

"Tony Bryer" wrote:
Triton, on their website, note showers being wired in with 2.5mm
cable as being one of the most common faults

I know of someone who moved an electric shower and
extended the cabling with chocolate block and 1mm²
flex. At the time they thought it was odd that:
(a) the wires were different sizes
(b) one had strands but the other was solid
(c) the colours were different
but at no time did they consider looking up whether this
was correct or asking someone who might know what
should be done. The cable failed when the next person
took a shower. When they opened it up they found that
the chocolate block hat mostly melted and there was very
little of the flex left. They then called an electrician.

I'm not sure whether Part P will make any difference at
all to situations like this, unless there is a big campaign to
raise awareness that electrical work comes under
building regulations. How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

Just my 2 pence,
Al

"John Armstrong" wrote in message
...
On 11 Feb 2004 01:23:29 -0800, Dean wrote:

Well, if it was me I'd be inclined to say that no electrical work has
been done on the property since this regulation came into force, so
no, there is no certificate.

One thing to watch for there, is that I think a change to the colour
coding
of the cable is also on the cards at around the same time, so might be an
idea to stock up on T+E cable.

Hopefully they'll get the timing wrong and change
the colours about three months before the new
regs come in. That way we'll all be able to use the
new-colour cable and claim we did all our electrical
work back in a three-month period early in the 21st
of the century!*

Al

* unless they start printing the date on cable

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:49 +0000, Al Reynolds wrote:

How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

You do?

Sounds like more b***ox to me.

Must remember to forget I read that just now ;-

On an aside, are the governemnet deliberately trying to bring building
regs into such a laughable state of disrepute that eventually everyone
ignores *all* the regs? This seems a worrying state of affairs.

I always thought that building regs were like IEE regs - eminently
sensible and applied to doing things that if they went wrong, could have
dire consequences (like house falling on head after pulling out load
bearing wall).

Now we're getting into the situation where I'm going to be running a
checklist on a major project (DIY - I don't do this stuff for a living)
along the likes of:

1) Electrics - consult IEE regs, sod telling the council;
2) New window - can I screw it in so it won't fall out? Then sod council
3) Drywalling - are there fire escape considerations - get opinion
3) Structural alteration - hmm, I'll do that by the book...

What a stupid state of affairs.

Timbo

On 11 Feb 2004 11:36:22 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Would Sir care for a beer?

Beer. I like that idea....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:49 -0000, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:

How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

Well I didn't until someone mentioned it a while back, and I think I
would be reasonably expected to have an idea.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"Dean" wrote in message
om...
Some insurers will solicit reports about the wiring
condition (ie was it newer than the regulation start date), but I
doubt it because the vast majority of fires WILL show the wiring was
old, so they will have to pay out anyway. My guess is that only if
they suspect the wiring was 'improved' but not checked, will they
investigate further, just like they do with burglary claims where the
claimant inflates the claim amount (ie, adding in enough extra to but
a new carpet etc). Most people will get away with it, a very few
won't.


My insurance requires me to maintain my property in good condition, but
nowhere does it say anything about having it **certified** to conform to
building regulations. If insurance companies wanted to ensure safe
electrical installations it would make more sense for them to insist upon
periodic 5 year inspections as suggested by the wiring regulations.

Taking the analogy of car insurance - is my insurance invalid if my brakes
fail after I have changed the brake pads?

James


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On 11 Feb 2004 17:54:01 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

PoP writes:
On 11 Feb 2004 11:36:22 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Would Sir care for a beer?

Beer. I like that idea....

London meet, anyone?

Definitely. Do you want to organise it? I did the last one,
aided and prompted by John Schmitt.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Parish" wrote in message
...

From: http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf

Can someone clarify something for me? In the above doc, under Notices
to The Local Authority it lists two circumstances where notification
is not required. Should those be interpreted as i) AND ii), or i) OR
ii)?

That's meant as an "or".

If the latter then, under ii), a DIYer can do everything listed
in Table 1 without notifying the LA or getting the work checked by a
"competent person", is that correct?

Yes, that's correct. (To the extent that these are only proposals and the
legislation hasn't been published yet.) There was also mention, in one of
the documents on the ODPM website, that _all_ work done by non-competent
persons in kitchens would be notifiable (in view of the amount of inept
electrical work done by kitchen fitters).

It's all very silly. Minor works exemptions will encourage over-extending
of existing circuits in situations where it would be safer to provide a new
circuit. Also look at Item 6 & note 2: "where can I get a 100yd. reel of
7/0.029 TRS to do the like-for-like replacement encouraged by this
particular exemption?"

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:

"Parish" wrote in message
...

From: http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf

Can someone clarify something for me? In the above doc, under Notices
to The Local Authority it lists two circumstances where notification
is not required. Should those be interpreted as i) AND ii), or i) OR
ii)?

That's meant as an "or".

If the latter then, under ii), a DIYer can do everything listed
in Table 1 without notifying the LA or getting the work checked by a
"competent person", is that correct?

Yes, that's correct. (To the extent that these are only proposals and the
legislation hasn't been published yet.) There was also mention, in one of
the documents on the ODPM website, that _all_ work done by non-competent
persons in kitchens would be notifiable (in view of the amount of inept
electrical work done by kitchen fitters).

It's all very silly. Minor works exemptions will encourage over-extending
of existing circuits in situations where it would be safer to provide a new
circuit. Also look at Item 6 & note 2: "where can I get a 100yd. reel of
7/0.029 TRS to do the like-for-like replacement encouraged by this
particular exemption?"


Thanks for the clarification. It was items 4 & 5 about bonding,
especially testing it, that prompted my question. I would have thought
(based, in part, on discussions in this group) that this would be
something that required an expert to get right since, if you get it
wrong, you may only realize your mistake in the last few milli-seconds
of life!

In article ,
wrote:

Trust us, we're honest tradesmen, and here's a
sistificate that says so."

Obviously not if they can't spell "sustificate" :-)


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Isn't Part Q up next, Broadband Access?

How that is going to help health and safety, or energy conservation, I'm not
sure.

RT




"Tim" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:49 +0000, Al Reynolds wrote:

How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

You do?

Sounds like more b***ox to me.

Must remember to forget I read that just now ;-

On an aside, are the governemnet deliberately trying to bring building
regs into such a laughable state of disrepute that eventually everyone
ignores *all* the regs? This seems a worrying state of affairs.

I always thought that building regs were like IEE regs - eminently
sensible and applied to doing things that if they went wrong, could have
dire consequences (like house falling on head after pulling out load
bearing wall).

Now we're getting into the situation where I'm going to be running a
checklist on a major project (DIY - I don't do this stuff for a living)
along the likes of:

1) Electrics - consult IEE regs, sod telling the council;
2) New window - can I screw it in so it won't fall out? Then sod council
3) Drywalling - are there fire escape considerations - get opinion
3) Structural alteration - hmm, I'll do that by the book...

What a stupid state of affairs.

Timbo

"Huge" wrote in message
...
PoP writes:
On 11 Feb 2004 11:36:22 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Would Sir care for a beer?

Beer. I like that idea....

London meet, anyone?

Make it West-ish London and you could twist my arm :-)

"Tim" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:49 +0000, Al Reynolds wrote:

How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

You do?

Sounds like more b***ox to me.


It is - but the number of house sales falling through for lack of them is
steadily increasing.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:51 +0000, River Tramp wrote:


Isn't Part Q up next, Broadband Access?

How that is going to help health and safety, or energy conservation, I'm not
sure.

RT


Thou doth jest, surely?

Timbo

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:57:57 +0000, "Tim S" wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:51 +0000, River Tramp wrote:


Isn't Part Q up next, Broadband Access?

How that is going to help health and safety, or energy conservation, I'm not
sure.

RT


Thou doth jest, surely?

Timbo

Because you will be able to work from home all the time in your
superinsulated house and not need to drive to work.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In what way do building regs affect replacing a window? I'm having my
existing double glazing units removed and replaced with new double
glazing units (so as to match the double glazing units in an extension
were having built). Do I need building regs approval for this, or is
it replacing original single glazing with double glazing that falls
foul of the building regs?

IMHO Extending building regs to DIY activities, such as installing a
bit of new wiring, broadband access and the like is about par for the
course for socialist governments like we have at the moment. If you
want less government interference in your life, vote Conservative. If
you want more govenrment interference in your life, vote Labour/Lib
Dem.

Dean.

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message ...
"Tony Bryer" wrote:
Triton, on their website, note showers being wired in with 2.5mm
cable as being one of the most common faults

I know of someone who moved an electric shower and
extended the cabling with chocolate block and 1mm²
flex. At the time they thought it was odd that:
(a) the wires were different sizes
(b) one had strands but the other was solid
(c) the colours were different
but at no time did they consider looking up whether this
was correct or asking someone who might know what
should be done. The cable failed when the next person
took a shower. When they opened it up they found that
the chocolate block hat mostly melted and there was very
little of the flex left. They then called an electrician.

I'm not sure whether Part P will make any difference at
all to situations like this, unless there is a big campaign to
raise awareness that electrical work comes under
building regulations. How many people on the street
know that you need building regs if you replace a window?

Just my 2 pence,
Al

Dean wrote:
In what way do building regs affect replacing a window? I'm having my
existing double glazing units removed and replaced with new double
glazing units (so as to match the double glazing units in an extension
were having built). Do I need building regs approval for this, or is
it replacing original single glazing with double glazing that falls
foul of the building regs?

You do need approval because the new double glazing units have to
conform the the latest insulation requirements (well the windows as a
whole do I think).

--
Chris Green

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:57:57 +0000, Tim S wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:51 +0000, River Tramp wrote:


Isn't Part Q up next, Broadband Access?

How that is going to help health and safety, or energy conservation, I'm not
sure.

RT


Thou doth jest, surely?

Timbo

F**k me...

http://www.eden.gov.uk/council/techn.../broadband.pdf

apparantly, thou doth not jest.

We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed -

Time to leave the country...

Timbo

In article , Dean
wrote:

IMHO Extending building regs to DIY activities, such as
installing a bit of new wiring, broadband access and the like
is about par for the course for socialist governments like we
have at the moment. If you want less government interference in
your life, vote Conservative.

Michael Heseltine c.1979 may have made wonderful speeches about
jobs locked up in planners filing cabinets and making a bonfire of
controls but all they did was increase planning controls. Listen to
the media now and you'll hear Conservative spokesmen saying that it
is outrageous that HMG are prepared to allow the thousands of new
houses to be built in the South East. You won't hear them saying
that it is outrageous that HMG was ever given the power to
determine this and once they come to power market forces will be
the sole determinant of what houses are built and where.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Dean" wrote in message
om...
In what way do building regs affect replacing a window? I'm having my
existing double glazing units removed and replaced with new double
glazing units (so as to match the double glazing units in an extension
were having built). Do I need building regs approval for this, or is
it replacing original single glazing with double glazing that falls
foul of the building regs?

If you're having them put in, your installer can
probably self-certify them. If you're putting them
in, you need building control approval.

Al

Tim S wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:57:57 +0000, Tim S wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:51 +0000, River Tramp wrote:


Isn't Part Q up next, Broadband Access?

How that is going to help health and safety, or energy conservation, I'm not
sure.

RT


Thou doth jest, surely?

Timbo

F**k me...

http://www.eden.gov.uk/council/techn.../broadband.pdf


Error 404. the correct URL is http://www.eden.gov.uk/pdf/broadband.pdf

apparantly, thou doth not jest.

We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed -

Time to leave the country...

Timbo