In message , at 12:14:03 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017,
RJH remarked:

I have a mate (2 degrees, 1 in (materials) engineering) who wouldn't
change a fuse in a plug because he believes it's borderline illegal,
and the domain of qualified electricians.

I have a mate who has a degree in electrical/electronic engineering and
designs things like cellphone base stations. His employer doesn't allow
him to change a fuse in a mains plug. I agree that this is a little OTT.
--
Roland Perry

On 04/11/17 13:13, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:14:03 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017,
RJH remarked:

I have a mate (2 degrees, 1 in (materials) engineering) who wouldn't
change a fuse in a plug because he believes it's borderline illegal,
and the domain of qualified electricians.

I have a mate who has a degree in electrical/electronic engineering and
designs things like cellphone base stations. His employer doesn't allow
him to change a fuse in a mains plug. I agree that this is a little OTT.

'Demarcation' and jobs for the boys.

Thank Socialism for Luddites!


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
However, I'd certainly not suggest you replace a socket if you think
that a task which requires a pro. And not sure you should have replaced
that plug either, since doing an 'amateur' job on that can be a safety
hazard too.

There is clearly a substantial difference in the skills requires to
change a plug and replace a wall socket.

Really? Care to list them?

Changing from a moulded on plug requires cable preparation. And stripping
off insulation is something many can't do properly.

To change a socket only requires a screwdriver. Of course if a different
design from the original you may have to make sure you put the cables in
the correct holes. But that also applies to changing a plug.

--
*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have a mate who has a degree in electrical/electronic engineering
and designs things like cellphone base stations. His employer doesn't
allow him to change a fuse in a mains plug. I agree that this is a
little OTT.

'Demarcation' and jobs for the boys.

Thank Socialism for Luddites!

A Luddite employer, then? Seems to be another term you use without
understanding.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , at 13:51:05 on Sat, 4 Nov
2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:
However, I'd certainly not suggest you replace a socket if you think
that a task which requires a pro. And not sure you should have replaced
that plug either, since doing an 'amateur' job on that can be a safety
hazard too.

There is clearly a substantial difference in the skills requires to
change a plug and replace a wall socket.

Really? Care to list them?

The most obvious is coping with the size, stiffness, and often
inadequate length of the ring main wiring.

Changing from a moulded on plug requires cable preparation. And stripping
off insulation is something many can't do properly.

To change a socket only requires a screwdriver. Of course if a different
design from the original you may have to make sure you put the cables in
the correct holes. But that also applies to changing a plug.

At least the positions of the holes is pretty standard on a plug.

I've seen wall sockets where the existing wiring simply won't reach the
holes in a replacement.
--
Roland Perry

On Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:14:13 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:51:05 on Sat, 4 Nov
2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

However, I'd certainly not suggest you replace a socket if you think
that a task which requires a pro. And not sure you should have replaced
that plug either, since doing an 'amateur' job on that can be a safety
hazard too.

There is clearly a substantial difference in the skills requires to
change a plug and replace a wall socket.

Really? Care to list them?

The most obvious is coping with the size, stiffness, and often
inadequate length of the ring main wiring.

Lol. Oh no, I can't cope! The one difference is the need to switch the right MCB off. Which is very very simple to do.

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
Really? Care to list them?

The most obvious is coping with the size, stiffness, and often
inadequate length of the ring main wiring.

Best leave it to a pro, then.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/11/2017 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
04:03:29 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.

Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they employ
who have the training.

Not disagreeing, although I am not sure what point you are making?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 16:52:40 GMT
Johnny B Good wrote:

There's no fixed rule of thumb in regard of
frequency of checking other than to use the MK1 eyeball and, if in
any doubt, to firmly press the plugtop into its socket every so often.

I'd have thought remove and replace, rather than just pressing it in.

On 04/11/2017 16:23, wrote:

Lol. Oh no, I can't cope! The one difference is the need to switch the right MCB off. Which is very very simple to do.

Not always.

I did an EICR last week.

Now the first thing I do is check that the labelled up MCBs do what they
are supposed to do.

The existing labels are only a guide.

This was an ex RAF house and I am estimating that the MOD paid for the
rewire about 30 years ago.

The downstairs sockets MCB did not turn off the downstairs sockets until
the immersion MCB was also turned off.



--
Adam

On 04/11/2017 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
04:03:29 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.

Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they employ
who have the training.

OK. So based on the evidence so far what would you do as a landlord?

It has been suggested that the socket for the washing washing is
possibly a bit dodgy.


--
Adam

In message , at
18:04:06 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.

Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they employ
who have the training.

Not disagreeing, although I am not sure what point you are making?

Says it all.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:36:48 on Sat, 4 Nov
2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

Really? Care to list them?

The most obvious is coping with the size, stiffness, and often
inadequate length of the ring main wiring.

Best leave it to a pro, then.

Not rely on an amateur, actually.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:36:48 on Sat, 4 Nov
2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

Really? Care to list them?

The most obvious is coping with the size, stiffness, and often
inadequate length of the ring main wiring.

Best leave it to a pro, then.

Not rely on an amateur, actually.

being an amateur only means you don't get paid. It says nothing about
competance.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In the good old days....

Our Readers Digest book of DIY said large loads like WMs needed an FCU rather than a plug & socket.

I think thats good advise.

Actually, I think they also said they should be on their own feed direct from the CU, rather than on the ring (or spurred off).

In message , at 21:01:28 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017,
ARW remarked:
On 04/11/2017 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
04:03:29 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.
Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they
employ who have the training.

OK. So based on the evidence so far what would you do as a landlord?

Insist that only my appointed person change ring main sockets.

It has been suggested that the socket for the washing washing is
possibly a bit dodgy.

And if indeed dodgy, the landlord should pay for the repair.
--
Roland Perry

wrote

In the good old days....

Our Readers Digest book of DIY said large loads like
WMs needed an FCU rather than a plug & socket.

And then the world moved on.

I think thats good advise.

More fool you.

Actually, I think they also said they should be on their own feed
direct from the CU, rather than on the ring (or spurred off).

And then the world moved on.

On 04/11/2017 21:23, Roland Perry wrote:


OK. So based on the evidence so far what would you do as a landlord?

Insist that only my appointed person change ring main sockets.

It has been suggested that the socket for the washing washing is
possibly a bit dodgy.

And if indeed dodgy, the landlord should pay for the repair.


That's roughly about £30 (not including London or some other poncy
town/city centres[1]) and you will get a minor works certificate thrown in.

[1] York is a joke for anyone wanting to work there that does ride a bike

--
Adam

On 04/11/2017 21:19, wrote:
In the good old days....

Our Readers Digest book of DIY said large loads like WMs needed an FCU rather than a plug & socket.

I think thats good advise.

Actually, I think they also said they should be on their own feed direct from the CU, rather than on the ring (or spurred off).



Well then the RD book is a load of ********:-).

Along with any Which? totally unbiased recommendations.








--
Adam

In article ,
wrote:
Our Readers Digest book of DIY said large loads like WMs needed an FCU
rather than a plug & socket.

Odd they come with a fitted plug?

I think that‘s good advise.

Actually, I think they also said they should be on their own feed direct
from the CU, rather than on the ring (or spurred off).

Good idea not to believe what you read in it, then.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/11/2017 21:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:01:28 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017,
ARW remarked:
On 04/11/2017 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
04:03:29 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.
Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they
employ who have the training.

OK. So based on the evidence so far what would you do as a landlord?

Insist that only my appointed person change ring main sockets.

ok, so now you hear that your tenant had his own electrican look at the
situation, and he said that because of the state of the socket it was
unsafe to use in that condition and represented a fire risk. As a result
he replaced it there and then. The tenant is happy to waive the cost of
the reapir since it saved him major inconvenience.

What you going to do, evict them?


It has been suggested that the socket for the washing washing is
possibly a bit dodgy.

And if indeed dodgy, the landlord should pay for the repair.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/11/2017 21:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
18:04:06 on Sat, 4 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.

Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they employ
who have the training.

Not disagreeing, although I am not sure what point you are making?

Says it all.

Well that does explain it better...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/11/2017 20:41, ARW wrote:
On 04/11/2017 16:23, wrote:

Lol. Oh no, I can't cope! The one difference is the need to switch the
right MCB off. Which is very very simple to do.

Not always.

I did an EICR last week.

Now the first thing I do is check that the labelled up MCBs do what they
are supposed to do.

The existing labels are only a guide.

This was an ex RAF house and I am estimating that the MOD paid for the
rewire about 30 years ago.

The downstairs sockets MCB did not turn off the downstairs sockets until
the immersion MCB was also turned off.

That could get someone into hot water ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , at
12:32:06 on Sun, 5 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:
(or do you have some professional qualification, in which case
it's somewhat of an outlier).

What like a GCSE in socket fitting? ;-)

No, although I expect my domestic electrics skills would stack up
fairly well against those of many landlords.

Most landlords are investors or accountants. It's the people they employ
who have the training.

Not disagreeing, although I am not sure what point you are making?

Says it all.

Well that does explain it better...

Yes, it highlights how you can't tell the difference between the
electrical skills of accountants vs their appointed sparkies.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
12:32:00 on Sun, 5 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:

what would you do as a landlord?

Insist that only my appointed person change ring main sockets.

ok, so now you hear that your tenant had his own electrican look at the
situation,

Except I'm not an electrician qualified to sign all the paperwork.

and he said that because of the state of the socket it was unsafe to
use in that condition and represented a fire risk. As a result he
replaced it there and then.

Hold on - who is doing the replacement: the tenant himself, his
unqualified friend, or the tenant's qualified electrician?

The tenant is happy to waive the cost of the reapir since it saved him
major inconvenience.

What you going to do, evict them?

Charge them for having a qualified electrician come in and test the
installation and sign it off as compliant.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/11/2017 14:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
12:32:00 on Sun, 5 Nov 2017, John Rumm
remarked:

what would you do as a landlord?

Insist that only my appointed person change ring main sockets.

ok, so now you hear that your tenant had his own electrican look at
the situation,

Except I'm not an electrician qualified to sign all the paperwork.

and he said that because of the state of the socket it was unsafe to
use in that condition and represented a fire risk. As a result he
replaced it there and then.

Hold on - who is doing the replacement: the tenant himself, his
unqualified friend, or the tenant's qualified electrician?

The tenant is happy to waive the cost of the reapir since it saved him
major inconvenience.

What you going to do, evict them?

Charge them for having a qualified electrician come in and test the
installation and sign it off as compliant.

So who pays if your electrician finds out that the work is compliant?

--
Adam

On 05/11/17 17:02, ARW wrote:
So who pays if your electrician finds out that the work is compliant?

He does. Work not signed off is work not completed

https://iamclothedwithjoy.files.word.../paperwork.png

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:41:30 +0000
ARW wrote:


The downstairs sockets MCB did not turn off the downstairs sockets
until the immersion MCB was also turned off.


I came across a 1mm lighting circuit on a 16A MCB. I was a bit puzzled
until I found they'd spurred a socket off the lighting circuit to
supply a oil filled rad in the conservatory.

On 05/11/2017 12:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/11/2017 20:41, ARW wrote:
On 04/11/2017 16:23, wrote:

Lol. Oh no, I can't cope! The one difference is the need to switch the
right MCB off. Which is very very simple to do.

Not always.

I did an EICR last week.

Now the first thing I do is check that the labelled up MCBs do what they
are supposed to do.

The existing labels are only a guide.

This was an ex RAF house and I am estimating that the MOD paid for the
rewire about 30 years ago.

The downstairs sockets MCB did not turn off the downstairs sockets until
the immersion MCB was also turned off.

That could get someone into hot water ;-)


And I disconnected the immersio0n circuit (after making a proper ring
circuit from the other cables) as I was unable to identify what it fed.

Ditto for the 6mm 32A cooker circuit.



--
Adam