TBH I would rather have let my apprentices do the work after seeing this
lot have a go.

They (two of them) have spent the last 3 days ****ing about trying to
fit 12 meters to some flats. A BEMCO install so **** easy and all
trunked up ready for them.

A two day job for anyone on their own with a brain cell and a bit of
worth ethic.

Well done BG you employ the worst installers known to man.






--
Adam

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:07:32 +0100
ARW wrote:

TBH I would rather have let my apprentices do the work after seeing
this lot have a go.

They (two of them) have spent the last 3 days ****ing about trying to
fit 12 meters to some flats. A BEMCO install so **** easy and all
trunked up ready for them.

A two day job for anyone on their own with a brain cell and a bit of
worth ethic.

Well done BG you employ the worst installers known to man.







Would the penguin do a better job?

--
Davey.

The cheapest probably. I cannot understand why they are going ahead fitting
these when we have been told they are insecure and will all have to b
changed again in a few years.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ARW" wrote in message
news
TBH I would rather have let my apprentices do the work after seeing this
lot have a go.

They (two of them) have spent the last 3 days ****ing about trying to fit
12 meters to some flats. A BEMCO install so **** easy and all trunked up
ready for them.

A two day job for anyone on their own with a brain cell and a bit of worth
ethic.

Well done BG you employ the worst installers known to man.






--
Adam

The energy suppliers may well be going ahead with smart meters because
they are a condition of their licences from Ofgem.

[top posted for Brian's screenreader]

On 21/10/2017 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
The cheapest probably. I cannot understand why they are going ahead fitting
these when we have been told they are insecure and will all have to b
changed again in a few years.
Brian



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:02:52 +0100, Robin wrote:

The energy suppliers may well be going ahead with smart meters because
they are a condition of their licences from Ofgem.

[top posted for Brian's screenreader]

On 21/10/2017 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
The cheapest probably. I cannot understand why they are going ahead fitting
these when we have been told they are insecure and will all have to b
changed again in a few years.
Brian

I had a smart meter installed by Scottish Power as part of a pilot. I
asked where my home energy display was and was told I would not get
one because it was the pilot, not the roll-out. About a year ago I
started getting letters and calls about installation of a smart meter.
I contacted them to say I already have a smart meter. I asked if the
new meter would be first or second generation. If I moved supplier
would it still work? The answer was no. I asked what the benefit was
in changing the meter and they were unable to state any benefit. I
asked it they were planning to use statutory powers of entry if I
refused. They said no. I said in that case having considered the
proposal I was refusing and I have heard nothing since.

Yes, but its completely daft as the vi sector had a meeting with ofgen last
year at which it was stated that talking remote controls were now available,
but no company was aware and none were even bothered to find out. this year
we have been told that the security services were not happy with the
communication protocols used in currently fitted and about to be fitted
meters and that any hacker could turn off the whole countries meters so a
redesign was in progress and this meant all hardware would need to be
replaced so the government had decided to waive the smart meters
installation schedule by 2020 until this redesign and supply could be
better scheduled. I spoke to EDF a few months ago who confirmed that this
was the case, and further, current meters had a bug that meant they
mischarged some tariffs like Economy 7 so I would not be offered one.
There have also been issues where meters have been fitted in areas where
they simply cannot communicate, ie underground!


This has all the hallmarks of a Government designed scheme where not
everyone got the memo.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Robin" wrote in message
...
The energy suppliers may well be going ahead with smart meters because
they are a condition of their licences from Ofgem.

[top posted for Brian's screenreader]

On 21/10/2017 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
The cheapest probably. I cannot understand why they are going ahead
fitting
these when we have been told they are insecure and will all have to b
changed again in a few years.
Brian



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Yes left hand right hand middle hand. Nobody seems to have all the parts of
the jigsaw do they?
Typical of a gov scheme, a monumental cock up. Just like the nucclear
reprocessing and decommisioning, the universal credit and the nhs computer
scheme.
a total mess.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:02:52 +0100, Robin wrote:

The energy suppliers may well be going ahead with smart meters because
they are a condition of their licences from Ofgem.

[top posted for Brian's screenreader]

On 21/10/2017 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
The cheapest probably. I cannot understand why they are going ahead
fitting
these when we have been told they are insecure and will all have to b
changed again in a few years.
Brian

I had a smart meter installed by Scottish Power as part of a pilot. I
asked where my home energy display was and was told I would not get
one because it was the pilot, not the roll-out. About a year ago I
started getting letters and calls about installation of a smart meter.
I contacted them to say I already have a smart meter. I asked if the
new meter would be first or second generation. If I moved supplier
would it still work? The answer was no. I asked what the benefit was
in changing the meter and they were unable to state any benefit. I
asked it they were planning to use statutory powers of entry if I
refused. They said no. I said in that case having considered the
proposal I was refusing and I have heard nothing since.

Scott formulated the question :
I asked if the
new meter would be first or second generation. If I moved supplier
would it still work? The answer was no. I asked what the benefit was
in changing the meter and they were unable to state any benefit. I
asked it they were planning to use statutory powers of entry if I
refused. They said no. I said in that case having considered the
proposal I was refusing and I have heard nothing since.

The only advantage is that you can slightly more easily keep an eye on
your consumption, by looking at the graphs an SM can produce on your
suppliers website, plus you do not need to report the readings back to
your supplier.

Those advantages are lost, just as soon as you change supplier, until
your new supplier fits yet another SM which works for them. In the
almost 2.5 years I have had SM's they have only been functional for 2x
6 month periods, with two meter swaps so far.

I have just swapping to my third supplier and fully expect them to have
to swap both meters yet again, so they work with their system. Part of
my problem is that the suppliers only remain competitive for the first
year, so it becomes more sensible to move on.

On 21/10/2017 10:00, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott formulated the question :

Those advantages are lost, just as soon as you change supplier, snip.

Not necessarily. As I have said before, 2 smart meters fitted here in
2012 have worked as such with 3 different suppliers.

As in other fields, I suspect those who experience problems are more
vocal than those who don't.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin expressed precisely :
Not necessarily. As I have said before, 2 smart meters fitted here in 2012
have worked as such with 3 different suppliers.

As in other fields, I suspect those who experience problems are more vocal
than those who don't.

Possibly, but surely the spec ought to have been common/universal to
all? Swapping suppliers is the norm for many.

OVO installed #1. They would not work with First, so were swapped for
#2. Just swapping again to Bristol and they say they cannot use #2.

Brian-Gaff submitted this idea :
Yes left hand right hand middle hand. Nobody seems to have all the parts of
the jigsaw do they?
Typical of a gov scheme, a monumental cock up. Just like the nucclear
reprocessing and decommisioning, the universal credit and the nhs computer
scheme.
a total mess.

+1

On 21/10/2017 10:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Robin expressed precisely :
Not necessarily. As I have said before, 2 smart meters fitted here
in 2012 have worked as such with 3 different suppliers.

As in other fields, I suspect those who experience problems are more
vocal than those who don't.

Possibly, but surely the spec ought to have been common/universal to
all? Swapping suppliers is the norm for many.

OVO installed #1. They would not work with First, so were swapped for
#2. Just swapping again to Bristol and they say they cannot use #2.

I did hear a suggestion a firmware upgrade was coming that would make
them play nicely together...

Wonder how many will need to swap the meter to get the new firmware? ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

I did hear a suggestion a firmware upgrade was coming that would make
them play nicely together...

Wonder how many will need to swap the meter to get the new firmware? ;-)

Once you've changed to a different supplier, does ownership of the meter
stay with the original supplier? if so, why would they care whether they
upgrade a meter they're not profiting from?

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:02:13 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

I did hear a suggestion a firmware upgrade was coming that would make
them play nicely together...

Wonder how many will need to swap the meter to get the new firmware? ;-)

Once you've changed to a different supplier, does ownership of the meter
stay with the original supplier? if so, why would they care whether they
upgrade a meter they're not profiting from?

I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

Scott laid this down on his screen :
I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

I would think they have to be the property of the distributor, they
take responsibility.

On 21/10/2017 10:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Robin expressed precisely :
Not necessarily.** As I have said before, 2 smart meters fitted here
in 2012 have worked as such with 3 different suppliers.

As in other fields, I suspect those who experience problems are more
vocal than those who don't.

Possibly, but surely the spec ought to have been common/universal to
all? Swapping suppliers is the norm for many.

OVO installed #1. They would not work with First, so were swapped for
#2. Just swapping again to Bristol and they say they cannot use #2.

I note none of those suppliers has more than 2 or 3 per cent of the
market.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin submitted this idea :
I note none of those suppliers has more than 2 or 3 per cent of the market.

Which should not make any difference so far as metering goes.

On 21/10/2017 11:08, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:02:13 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

I did hear a suggestion a firmware upgrade was coming that would make
them play nicely together...

Wonder how many will need to swap the meter to get the new firmware? ;-)

Once you've changed to a different supplier, does ownership of the meter
stay with the original supplier? if so, why would they care whether they
upgrade a meter they're not profiting from?

I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

Nothing like so simple. IIRC gas meters could be owned by supplier,
transporter (eg National Grid) or consumer. I don't think gas meter
asset managers (MAMs) or electricity meter operators (MOPs) did. MAMs
and MOPs competed but were regulated. Ownership of some but not all
meters was regulated too. There was lots of discussion about how to
manage all that withy smart meters. I don't know where it ended up.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 21/10/2017 11:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Robin submitted this idea :
I note none of those suppliers has more than 2 or 3 per cent of the
market.

Which should not make any difference so far as metering goes.


"Should not" is not the same as "must not" or "did not".

All I know is that small suppliers were not subject to precisely the
same conditions from Ofgem as large ones; and that some small suppliers
have had, shall we say, a few little difficulties with their systems.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Scott wrote:

I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

I used to think that, not so sure it still applies.

Since March 2011 my DNO has been Western Power Distribution (previously
Central Networks) both my smart meters fitted June 2011 say "property of
e.on" who were my supplier at that time, not "property of WPD" or
"property of Central Networks".

Though the tangled parent of ex-EMEB region was e.on from 2002, so the
meters could have been "old stock" or just "branding"

Robin wrote:

I note none of those suppliers has more than 2 or 3 per cent of the
market.

My meters became dumb when I switched from e.on to SSE, both "big six"
suppliers.

After serious thinking Andy Burns wrote :
My meters became dumb when I switched from e.on to SSE, both "big six"
suppliers.

After my switch from OVO to First, First initially suggested they could
use neither SM, then said my gas SM would work with their system, so
just the E SM needed to be changed. The guy who turned up to swap the E
SM, decided that both had to be switched, so did both on the spot. As
said, both of the 'old' SM's seemed to be identical to the new SM's.

I think even the utility companies are confused by SM situation.

On 20/10/2017 21:07, ARW wrote:

Well done BG you employ the worst installers known to man.

It was always the case. The lot from BG that did my mother in laws
central heating put a nail through a cold water pipe (and then pulled it
out) making the drip into a torrent. They also installed the boiler with
a pipe sloping the wrong way trapping air so that it would always kettle.

Another lot digging for a leak in a gas main outside whilst smoking
created an inferno that required a fire engine to attend to keep the
house from burning down. The apple tree that was nearest to the
conflagration was history. The hedge has never recovered.

Comparison with short planks would be insulting to the planks.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:08:20 +0100, Scott wrote:

I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

I'd have to find the reference to be 100% sure but I'm sure you can
google as well as I can or be happy with 99.99% sure that:

Supply cables and distribution from 125 kV down is the resonsibilty
of the DNO. Their demarkation point(s) are the output terminal(s) of
the cutout (main fuse) and the MET. There to the output terminals of
the meter(s), including the meter(s) is the suppliers responsibilty,
that is the company you pay for your electricity. Meter output
terminals and on is the householders responsibilty.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:19:35 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:08:20 +0100, Scott wrote:

I thought the meters were owned by the distributor rather than the
supplier (same as the cables in the street). Does anyone know for
sure?

I'd have to find the reference to be 100% sure but I'm sure you can
google as well as I can or be happy with 99.99% sure that:

Supply cables and distribution from 125 kV down is the resonsibilty
of the DNO. Their demarkation point(s) are the output terminal(s) of
the cutout (main fuse) and the MET. There to the output terminals of
the meter(s), including the meter(s) is the suppliers responsibilty,
that is the company you pay for your electricity. Meter output
terminals and on is the householders responsibilty.

'Responsibility' and 'ownership' are not the same thing. If Scottish
Power install the meter and I change to another supplier is there a
transfer of legal title between SP and the new supplier? I suspect
not.

According to Ofgem the position is not clear cut:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/gas/retail-...set-management

"Meters are owned, installed, operated and managed by a range of
different organisations (including gas and electricity suppliers and
meter asset managers and installers)"

Scott wrote:

According to Ofgem

"Meters are owned, installed, operated and managed by a range of
different organisations"

While I was reading around, it seems that it's even possible (though
probably most likely for organisations using half-hour meters) to own
your own meters ...

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:16:38 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

According to Ofgem

"Meters are owned, installed, operated and managed by a range of
different organisations"

While I was reading around, it seems that it's even possible (though
probably most likely for organisations using half-hour meters) to own
your own meters ...

Yes, I saw that too.